Jonah Died and went to Hell

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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The scriptures are always in harmony and don't contradict. So lets analyse what Solomon is saying. We will put the surrounding verses:

Ecclesiastes 9
3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished;
Nevermore will they have a share
In anything done under the sun.

- This piece's CONTEXT is between the red verses above. The context is "what is done under the sun" - in other words the activities on mankind on the earth.
-The Dead DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENS ON THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. THEY ARE NOT AWARE OF THE GOINGS ON ANYMORE. THEY DONT KNOW WHO THE PRESIDENT OF THE US IS. THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS ARE DOING, etc. THEY KNOW NOTHING.

Lets repost the above verses but with the "Dead" inserted to bring the verses to life (mind the anti-pun)


3 This is an evil in all that is done under the sun: that one thing happens to all. Truly the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil; madness is in their hearts while they live, and after that they go to the dead. 4 But for him who is joined to all the living there is hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And the dead have no more reward,
For the memory of the dead is forgotten.
6 Also their (the dead's) love, their (the dead's) hatred, and their (the dead's) envy have now perished;
Nevermore will the dead have a share
In anything done under the sun.

Reading this now makes sense in light of the above explanation.
Luke 16:24-26
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


The dead have no reward.
 

Chris1975

Senior Member
Apr 27, 2017
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Luke 16:24-26
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.


The dead have no reward.
The dead cannot pass between Sheol and Abrahams Bosom and vice versa, What's your point?
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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The dead cannot pass between Sheol and Abrahams Bosom and vice versa, What's your point?
It doesn't surprise me in the least that you can't understand.

The dead can receive no reward.


Did Jonah receive a reward when he was in Sheol?

YES. He was delivered. Therefore, he was not dead.

Did the rich guy receive a reward when he was in hell?

No. He was dead. He could receive no reward.
 
Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
I would offer. It would seem to be a brief summary or general survey of the principle in chapter 9 that aid each other. The golden bowl of faith as the prayer of saints has broken, they are no longer under the Sun (time restraint ) The temporal time of suffering had ended. They have no memory of the former things. The source of faith as the pitcher is shattered at the fountain, the wheel used to draw living water of the gospel is broken . For God now accepts the good works we offer toward his name.

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works. Eccl.5-7
I think it's HIS works that HE works through our faith GOD bless as HE sees FIT .
 
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washburn Tn
No. But if you did read those verses in Ecclesiastes you would see the PROOF for why Jonah did NOT DIE.


Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.


Jonah 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God.

Reward from Sheol By God due to Prayer.

Jonah 2:9 But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the Lord.

Reward from Sheol by God due to Prayer.

Psalm 40:2-3
2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings.

3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the Lord.

Reward from Sheol by God due to Prayer.


I could keep going but I think you get it.
Ecclesiastes is not exactly the cornerstone of our Faith.
I tell you right now, that WE BETTER MAKE ,THE WHOLE bible OUR WHOLE CORNERSTONE , it'S ALL ABOUT JESUS , THE WHOLE BIBLE ,
IT'S GODs WORD and we best live by it . Man should not live by bread along , But by every word of GOD , The bread being JESUS ,HE is the bread of LIFE ,.GOD BLESS as HE sees fit . And give us the understanding of HIS WORD .
 
Mar 28, 2016
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ramble on

ramble on

Jesus did die. they buried Him

I don't know how you manage it, but you have the events of Jesus death so muddied that it is better not to read the post
Sorry no offence. Just sharing.. not a salvation issue. More of like how can we hear and therefore seek his approval as he longingly commands each of us to? How do we rightly divide from faith (the unseen spiritual) to the same?. I am not saying I hear better just differently like fingerprints in one way.

God is not a man as us .He cannot die. Rather like Lazarus or other types. like Elijah they would seem to be used as a shadow of Christ as the Son of man and the father working as one.

Lazarus . . Dead asleep, in a answer to their complaint. He is dead. . confused the disciples who as it would seem did not mix what they heard as saw (the gospel) With faith and mixing as it is defined in 1 Corinthians 4:18 . They accused the Son of man of waiting to long. . He was defining the death of a saint as it related to the flesh. It is why they were to remove the grave cloths and not him. The glory belongs to Father not seen our one Master. the glory reflected in the Son of man not of him. remember God is not a man and neither is there a fleshly infallible interpret set between the eternal things of God not seen and temporal mankind seen. I think we should be careful how we hear. reminds me of Luke and the question.

When he comes on the last day "will he find his faith working in men or men walking after the temporal corrupted? The lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh .....pride producers. .

I would think it our responsibility to love one another in hope of removing that which binds us to things seen ,when and if we do mix faith . God working in us to both will and do his good pleasure with us to me is the good news, or gospel.

Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Hell, a living suffering of ones living soul.

No power is attributed to the flesh of the Son of man, Jesus. But only to the unseen the "spirit of holiness". It would appear no such thing as "holiness of the corrupted flesh" Jesus said His flesh profits it for nothing. It is the unseen Spirit that can give birth to spirits.

Romans 1:3-5 King James Version (KJV)Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Not by his birth but the death as dead asleep by the resurrection from the dead the mutual work of the father and Son. Can't have one without the other . :

The seed of david the seed of the flesh of mankind. The seed of Christ the spiritual seed of God who is eternal Spirit .

Jesus as living suffering suffered the pang of hell for three day beginning in the garden .(In a tomb Not under ground) The father answers to his request three times as shown in the garden demonstration . The father breathed spirit life into the Son of man, Jesus. . .in jeopardy of His own Spirit . Strengthening Jesus three times to finish the mutual work of both. That describes the antichrists. They have neither.

Again the garden the outward demonstration of the work of the Spirit is a good foundation.. At the beginning of the three day work when he began his suffering "unto death" (not dead) as a living work called the heart of the earth or the belly of the whale .

It is shown by that fact that Jesus as he suffered the wage of our sin as the wrath of the father .The Son of man was sweating as if it was literal blood using . . "sweat was as it were great drops of blood" to show a parable is in view. as if it was literal blood.

Literal blood that has life in it represent the unseen spirit weat is used that way in other parables also to show the work of the Spirit.

Some maintain literal blood was what the sweat was made of. Not mixing faith

Again suffering "unto death" not dying as in no spirit life.

And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,Luke 22:41-45
 
Mar 28, 2016
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I think it's HIS works that HE works through our faith GOD bless as HE sees FIT .
Yes our new born again faith that comes form hearing. . called the hearing of faith. His words working in us giving us ears to faithfully hear Him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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It doesn't surprise me in the least that you can't understand.

The dead can receive no reward.


Did Jonah receive a reward when he was in Sheol?

YES. He was delivered. Therefore, he was not dead.

Did the rich guy receive a reward when he was in hell?

No. He was dead. He could receive no reward.
Could you please explain the difference between the Hebrew Sheol, the Greek hades and the KJV hell? Thanks. Every one has been avoiding this question.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Did I state that?

I am not sure what you are asking, but do you think Matthew 12 supports the OP premise... I do not think so at all.

An analogy is typically not a point by point correlation and it does not have to be.
It took you two days to say that first part? When you said you were doing housework and couldn't address my simple question?

OK.
If you're not sure what I'm asking why would you answer at all? Why wouldn't you ask for clarification?

I posted about Matthew 12. Unfortunately there are those who don't believe what it says. Nothing can be done about that really.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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E

EleventhHour

Guest
It took you two days to say that first part? When you said you were doing housework and couldn't address my simple question?

OK.
If you're not sure what I'm asking why would you answer at all? Why wouldn't you ask for clarification?

I posted about Matthew 12. Unfortunately there are those who don't believe what it says. Nothing can be done about that really.
Dear Whispered, can you please clarify....and I will respond as time permits.
EH

You know with housework one small job can lead to multiple other things...however, I will try to focus on BDF solely for the next 24 hours.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Could you please explain the difference between the Hebrew Sheol, the Greek hades and the KJV hell? Thanks. Every one has been avoiding this question.
Hades . . mythology, god of the underworld.

Sheol ......the place of the those dead in their trespasses and sin without hope and without God. Revealed daily by the wrath of God, a dying creation

Hell the living suffering of a dying corrupted creation. they suffer unto death not literaly dead. without a spirit the breath of life. Those under the curse of the earth that drinks the corrupted blood .Like Abel's corrupted blood that cries out to be delivered from the deceitful heart the earth . Abel did have the sabbath rest. Cain with no sabbath rest in Christ. suffered a punishment Cain could not perform having no rest by believing God He suffered day and night until he died. His temporal spirit departed and returned the father of spirits. His flesh body returns same place as Abel's returning to the dust. Cain's blood does not cry out to be clothed with a new body. He will not rise on the last . Nothing to rise to or rise with.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
Hades . . mythology, god of the underworld.

Sheol ......the place of the those dead in their trespasses and sin without hope and without God. Revealed daily by the wrath of God, a dying creation

Hell the living suffering of a dying corrupted creation. they suffer unto death not literaly dead. without a spirit the breath of life. Those under the curse of the earth that drinks the corrupted blood .Like Abel's corrupted blood that cries out to be delivered from the deceitful heart the earth . Abel did have the sabbath rest. Cain with no sabbath rest in Christ. suffered a punishment Cain could not perform having no rest by believing God He suffered day and night until he died. His temporal spirit departed and returned the father of spirits. His flesh body returns same place as Abel's returning to the dust. Cain's blood does not cry out to be clothed with a new body. He will not rise on the last . Nothing to rise to or rise with.
"For as Jonah was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of Man be to this generation." The Book of Luke chapter 11:30.

In Exegesis studies we should note that Sheol was first. Sheol became Hell, as Christians understand Hell to be, far later.
Both believer and non-believer enter Sheol after life.

Sheol

The Hebrew word "Sheol" is often translated "hell" in the English versions. However this gives the wrong inference. It is never used of the final destination of the wicked. Sheol is used in Old Testament in basically five ways:

1. The unseen realm of the dead

2. The grave - the actual place where bodies are buried

3. Specifically, the place of punishment for the wicked

4. Symbolically

5. The place from where the righteous are saved

Context Determines

Sometimes the exact meaning of Sheol is hard to determine - it can overlap these categories. Consequently it is essential to check out the context to find the correct meaning of Sheol each time it is used.

1. The Unseen Realm Of The Dead

Sheol generally means the unseen realm of the dead, the present state of death. Both the godly and ungodly go to Sheol in this sense of the term. When used in this way, there is no idea of a place of judgment or condemnation. It is, for example, the place where the righteous Jacob would go.


All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he [Jacob] refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to the grave [Sheol] to my son." So his father wept for him (Genesis 37:35).​

Sheol was also the place where sinners would end up.


But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave [Sheol], then you will know that these people have treated the LORD with contempt (Numbers 16:30).
In common speech this refers to the grave - not the literal burying place of the dead but rather the realm of the death. The New International Version normally translates Sheol as "grave." It is usually with the sense of the realm of the dead.

2. Grave

Not only does Sheol figuratively represent the grave, it can also refer to the actual physical place where the literal bodies of the dead are buried.


Our bones are scattered at the mouth of the grave [Sheol], as when one plows and breaks up the earth (Psalm 141:7).
Jacob said.


But he said, "My son shall not go down with you, for his brother is dead, and he alone is left. If harm should come to him on the journey that you are to make, you would bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to Sheol" (Genesis 42:38).
In this instance, Sheol could refer either to the actual grave or merely the realm of the dead.

3. Place Of Punishment For Wicked


Often Sheol is used of the temporary place of judgment for the wicked. It is the place where God's anger burns against unbelievers.

Spiritual Death

Sheol is a place of spiritual death, or separation from God.


Let death come upon them; let them go down alive to Sheol; for evil is in their homes and in their hearts (Psalm 55:15).​

Insatiable Appetite
mediate state, it will come to an end someday. [Continues]
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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"For as Jonah was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of Man be to this generation." The Book of Luke chapter 11:30.

In Exegesis studies we should note that Sheol was first. Sheol became Hell, as Christians understand Hell to be, far later.
Both believer and non-believer enter Sheol after life.

Sheol

The Hebrew word "Sheol" is often translated "hell" in the English versions. However this gives the wrong inference. It is never used of the final destination of the wicked. Sheol is used in Old Testament in basically five ways:

1. The unseen realm of the dead

2. The grave - the actual place where bodies are buried

3. Specifically, the place of punishment for the wicked

4. Symbolically

5. The place from where the righteous are saved

Context Determines

Sometimes the exact meaning of Sheol is hard to determine - it can overlap these categories. Consequently it is essential to check out the context to find the correct meaning of Sheol each time it is used.

1. The Unseen Realm Of The Dead

Sheol generally means the unseen realm of the dead, the present state of death. Both the godly and ungodly go to Sheol in this sense of the term. When used in this way, there is no idea of a place of judgment or condemnation. It is, for example, the place where the righteous Jacob would go.


All his sons and daughters came to comfort him, but he [Jacob] refused to be comforted. "No," he said, "in mourning will I go down to the grave [Sheol] to my son." So his father wept for him (Genesis 37:35).​

Sheol was also the place where sinners would end up.


But if the LORD brings about something totally new, and the earth opens its mouth and swallows them, with everything that belongs to them, and they go down alive into the grave [Sheol], then you will know that these people have treated the LORD with contempt (Numbers 16:30).​
In common speech this refers to the grave - not the literal burying place of the dead but rather the realm of the death. The New International Version normally translates Sheol as "grave." It is usually with the sense of the realm of the dead.

2. Grave

Not only does Sheol figuratively represent the grave, it can also refer to the actual physical place where the literal bodies of the dead are buried.


Our bones are scattered at the mouth of the grave [Sheol], as when one plows and breaks up the earth (Psalm 141:7).​
Jacob said.


But he said, "My son shall not go down with you, for his brother is dead, and he alone is left. If harm should come to him on the journey that you are to make, you would bring down my gray hairs with sorrow to Sheol" (Genesis 42:38).​
In this instance, Sheol could refer either to the actual grave or merely the realm of the dead.

3. Place Of Punishment For Wicked


Often Sheol is used of the temporary place of judgment for the wicked. It is the place where God's anger burns against unbelievers.

Spiritual Death

Sheol is a place of spiritual death, or separation from God.


Let death come upon them; let them go down alive to Sheol; for evil is in their homes and in their hearts (Psalm 55:15).​

Insatiable Appetite
mediate state, it will come to an end someday. [Continues]
That’s about as clear as mud. I still have no idea what is Sheol. And what about hades? They define hell all wrong. Hell, as defined by the KJV, is not the permanent place of unbelievers. The lake of fire is the permanent place. Hell is cast into the lake of fire.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest

the male looks alot like ours

we had him out today...he's rusty with his manners..my left arm is 2 inches longer

I had him in obedience and he did very well, it's really my fault for not keeping up so I better get to it
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
You have a red Husky? Those are rare aren't they?
They don't grow back? :( I did not know this. I found that picture and posted it in full in one of the humor threads. https://www.pinterest.de/search/pins/?q=shaved husy&rs=typed&term_meta[]=shaved|typed&term_meta[]=husy|typed

yup ... red and white but they are not really rare

here he is, mr handsome himself

1579468646072.png

the double coat on this breed actually insulates from cold and heat. when they shed, it's the undercoat coming out

shaving does nothing but harm the coat but people will do what they do

the coat will grow but most likely will never be as nice as it was
 
Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
That’s about as clear as mud. I still have no idea what is Sheol. And what about hades? They define hell all wrong. Hell, as defined by the KJV, is not the permanent place of unbelievers. The lake of fire is the permanent place. Hell is cast into the lake of fire.
Sheol is Grave or Pit
Hadesis the grave or the place of the dead
Gehenna is Valley of Hinnom or hell