Not By Works

[PS]

All I see is false accusations and silly/weak attempts to discredit Gods children...😅

And all I saw from oyster was dishonest as well....

If you really cared about truth you wouldn't focus on pointing your finger or making false claims for some make believe moral high ground.....

You understand youre speaking to people who have read the bible and believe it. If you disagree then sorting it out is done by using proper context and scripture.... not playing word games or asking silly questions....

Oyster is a good man, he is not dishonest as you claim. You say you cannot lose your salvation, while the Bible clearly says you can. See post #123,488 for example. Here are three more examples out of many. So, does scripture have it or do the naysayers have it?

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

 

[OneOfHis]

Ok. Now is it possible I am saved if I die in a state of adultery

Simple yes or no

A simple yes or no would seem to ignore the fact before God, I am never in "a state of adultry" regardless of my walk on account of the imputed righteousness of Christ which will justify me.


But yes. (die while having a lustful flesh, wether its allowing one or many lustful thoughts or words or deeds)

 

[Discern]

Ok I promise.
Not sure my answer would be different though

Can you pm me? I want to hear other replies before I state my position to all. I will trust you to keep it under your hat till I’m ready

 

[Discern]

A simple yes or no would seem to ignore the fact before God, I am never in "a state of adultry" regardless of my walk on account of the imputed righteousness of Christ which will justify me.


But yes. (die while having a lustful flesh, wether its allowing one or many lustful thoughts or words or deeds)

Ok, then your answer is yes, a person would be saved even while living in adultery, because in Gods eyes, due to justification, he is not in adultery. That is one possible answer. Thank you for your reply

 

[OneOfHis]

Oyster is a good man, he is not dishonest as you claim. You say you cannot lose your salvation, while the Bible clearly says you can. See post #123,488 for example. Here are three more examples out of many. So, does scripture have it or do the naysayers have it?

Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

He was dishonest, I quoted it a few pages back. That was a factual statement not an opinion of his over all character... maybe he is usually honest

he was far less than genuine where i quoted his posts to me


Those verses don't have anything to do with a saved believer losing salvation.🙄

 

[Discern]

@OneOfHis Ok, then your answer is yes, a person would be saved even while living in adultery, because in Gods eyes, due to justification, he is not in adultery. That is one possible answer. Thank you for your reply
not agreeing or disagreeing. Recognizing that it is a possible answer.

 

[VCO]

Both what?

No

it is ONE

or THE OTHER

never both


you can't mix saved and unsaved in the church

tares are tares

wheat is wheat


and our actions, will not prove one way or another who we are in Christ


they can be only evidence at best before man


for me to give a solid one way or the other

we would need to say if this professed Christian has ever actually been born again

It is amazing how many people do not know the first thing about Born Again, and think they are Christians, just because they sit on a pew regularly. And even More Amazing is how many Churches never do teach Born Again, because they think that is works righteousness. No, we want them in the CHURCH, because FAITH COMES BY HEARING. No, this verse explains that it is the work of the Holy Spirit in your Heart (human spirit):

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” [as a Confession] except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess [not just profess] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


It has to be TRUE in your Heart (human spirit), before you can say it as a CONFESSION.

I used to think I was a Christian before I was Born Again; and we to church Regularly, from childhood on. YET, nearly 29 years of age, I knew I was walking into hades/hell every time when I attempted 3 times in a week, suicide, the last week of 1977.

 

[OneOfHis]

Ok, then your answer is yes, a person would be saved even while living in adultery, because in Gods eyes, due to justification, he is not in adultery. That is one possible answer. Thank you for your reply

Yeah but living in adultry would be also allowing a lustful thought to take hold, you could be a virgin living in adultry and not even take one lustful action.

 

[dcontroversal]

I do not like your language.

So what, it is in the bible and means illegitimate.......take it up with God, he inspired the word......

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

 

[Discern]

It is amazing how many people do not know the first thing about Born Again, and think they are Christians, just because they sit on a pew regularly. And even More Amazing is how many Churches never do teach Born Again, because they think that is works righteousness. No, this verse explains that it is the work of the Holy Spirit in your Heart (human spirit):

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” [as a Confession] except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess [not just profess] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


It has to be TRUE in your Heart (human spirit), before you can say it as a CONFESSION.

I used to think I was a Christian before I was Born Again; YET, nearly 29 years of age, I knew I was walking into hades/hell every time when I attempted 3 times in a week, suicide, the last week of 1977.

So what’s the answer to the question. One of his gave an answer and I did not debate him. What do you say

 

[Discern]

Yeah but living in adultry would be also allowing a lustful thought to take hold, you could be a virgin living in adultry and not even take one lustful action.

agreed

 

[dcontroversal]

Paul was used mightily by God. He was a bad man in his previous life. Have you ever thought of asking God to do the same.

You have no idea how God has used me pal........

 

[Discern]

It is amazing how many people do not know the first thing about Born Again, and think they are Christians, just because they sit on a pew regularly. And even More Amazing is how many Churches never do teach Born Again, because they think that is works righteousness. No, we want them in the CHURCH, because FAITH COMES BY HEARING. No, this verse explains that it is the work of the Holy Spirit in your Heart (human spirit):

1 Corinthians 12:3 (HCSB)
3 Therefore I am informing you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is cursed,”
and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” [as a Confession] except by the Holy Spirit.

Romans 10:8-10 (NASB)
8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
9 that if you confess [not just profess] with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


It has to be TRUE in your Heart (human spirit), before you can say it as a CONFESSION.

I used to think I was a Christian before I was Born Again; and we to church Regularly, from childhood on. YET, nearly 29 years of age, I knew I was walking into hades/hell every time when I attempted 3 times in a week, suicide, the last week of 1977.

Very true. No power where there is no spiritual resurrection/new birth

 

[VCO]

Yeah but living in adultry would be also allowing a lustful thought to take hold, you could be a virgin living in adultry and not even take one lustful action.

Not what Jesus Taught:

Matthew 7:16-20 (NASB)
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

 

[OneOfHis]

agreed

lol i feel ready for your secretive position

you still working on it?


honestly your approach or "brain food" feels more like using trigger words to eventually try to pin someone down after you set the tone

the truth doesnt need to be held in the dark

and

you know as well as i do


all here who trust in Christ and are born again

would be convicted if they were sinning

so the imaginary man you bring up just feels.... weird...

and we both know that if peter

who denied Jesus outright (no better than living in adultry) would have been saved if he died right there....

can you share why youre holding your cards so close to your chest and wording the questions like you are?


i ask because i thought before we are on the same page

. but your behavior is worrying me

 

[OneOfHis]

Not what Jesus Taught:

Matthew 7:16-20 (NASB)
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

You are suggesting that children of God never sin?



You have sinned brother, as have I... we need God equally and Jesus extended sin to the heart... not just actions

 

[Discern]

Ok I promise.
Not sure my answer would be different though

Ok, I’ll give my answer

A. it is possible that such a person was never saved

B. It is presumptions to the utmost degree to presume we personally ( not judging others) ever knew God while we are willfully living in such a way. We cannot know about others, not knowing state of heart when they died

 

[Discern]

lol i feel ready for your secretive position

you still working on it?


honestly your approach or "brain food" feels more like using trigger words to eventually try to pin someone down after you set the tone

the truth doesnt need to be held in the dark

and

you know as well as i do


all here who trust in Christ and are born again

would be convicted if they were sinning

so the imaginary man you bring up just feels.... weird...

and we both know that if peter

who denied Jesus outright (no better than living in adultry) would have been saved if he died right there....

can you share why youre holding your cards so close to your chest and wording the questions like you are?


i ask because i thought before we are on the same page

. but your behavior is worrying me

Just gave my position 1 minute ago😀

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus does produce the fruit, which is why the only requirement for bearing fruit is being saved, (Spirit of Christ) and loving Jesus.

Anyone who has the Spirit of Christ in them can bear fruit.

And as I have pointed out, and creation testifies.......fruit comes in varying sizes, shapes, amount and takes growth and maturity to produce....EVEN an apple tree is an apple tree some 2 to 3 years before it bears even ONE apple....OAKS take 20 to 25 years to bear...SOME people may be saved their whole LIFE and only produce 1 piece of fruit or they may be saved but one year and produce an abundance...............as branches WE BUT BEAR what CHRIST produces............HE gets all the glory....we get NONE

 

[OneOfHis]

Just gave my position 1 minute ago😀

well im sorry for being so suspicious

i agree with it😅