Eternal Life, Life eternal

[lightbearer]

Here is a proper rendering of John 17:2,and 3 from the Greek. Does everyone see the difference between it and the KJV? What do you see?

Jn 17:2
according as Thou -°givest Him authority over eall flesh, that everything which Thou hast given to Him, He should be giving it to them, life eternal

Jn 17:3
And this is •eternal life that they may |know Thee, the only true God, and Him Whom Thou dost commission, Jesus Christ.

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Joh 17:2-3 KJV)

 

[Webers.Home]

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How does eternal life differ from immortality; if at all?
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[JaumeJ]

Immortal is usually in reference to flesh. It is a fantasy of mankind, not dealing with a soul.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Here is a proper rendering of John 17:2,and 3 from the Greek. Does everyone see the difference between it and the KJV? What do you see?

There's no difference in the meaning at all. Eternal life is life eternal and vice versa.

John 17:2
καθὼς ἔδωκας αὐτῷ ἐξουσίαν πάσης σαρκός ἵνα πᾶν ὃ δέδωκας αὐτῷ δώσῃ αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
Literal rendering: As you gave him authority over all flesh so that all whom you have given him, He may give to them life eternal.

King James Bible (idiomatic): As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 17:3
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωή ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν
Literal rendering: This now is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and whom you have sent Jesus Christ.

King James Bible (idiomatic): And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[Hungry]

If the soul is eternal which it is led for us to believe then, whether or not we follow Christ it will be sentient. The hope for Christians is that at the “resurrection”, we will receive an incorruptible vessel. Since all pleasure and ability to function is because of this machine we inhabit, those who do not have one, will be in a forever state of nothing. It would be sort of like a coma that you could hear and see but not be able to communicate or function. Perpetual unrest. There is speculation that before the flood that the sons of God and daughters of men produced a hybrid race. These “people” died yet their souls linger, which are the unclean spirits trying to possess human’s vessels.

The point is we are flesh and spirit. Flesh, finite, spirit eternal.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If the soul is eternal which it is led for us to believe then, whether or not we follow Christ it will be sentient. The hope for Christians is that at the “resurrection”, we will receive an incorruptible vessel. Since all pleasure and ability to function is because of this machine we inhabit, those who do not have one, will be in a forever state of nothing. It would be sort of like a coma that you could hear and see but not be able to communicate or function. Perpetual unrest. There is speculation that before the flood that the sons of God and daughters of men produced a hybrid race. These “people” died yet their souls linger, which are the unclean spirits trying to possess human’s vessels.

The point is we are flesh and spirit. Flesh, finite, spirit eternal.

Good day Hungry!

Since all pleasure and ability to function is because of this machine we inhabit, those who do not have one, will be in a forever state of nothing.

Just fyi, the wicked will also be resurrected and receive an indestructible body, albeit mete for their punishment. For scripture states the following:

"And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

"and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."
(Acts 24:15)

"The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds" - Rev.20:11-15

The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" is defined as standing up again in a physical body, which is what Jesus did. Both the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected, i.e. in physical bodies. The righteous will have eternal life in those resurrection bodies in the presence of the Lord in the kingdom of God. Where the wicked will have eternal existence in their resurrected bodies in separation from God in the Lake of fire.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The point is we are flesh and spirit. Flesh, finite, spirit eternal.

More precisely we are body, soul, and spirit. Using the term flesh can be confusing since it can be applied either to the human body or the Adamic sin nature.

The body is mortal (subject to death) hence immortality pertains to the body.

The soul and spirit are imperishable, so you could apply the term eternal to them. But since eternal pertains to eternal life, imperishable is more accurate. Of course, the Annihilationists will claim that this is not so, by misinterpreting Scripture.

 

[Nehemiah6]

. How does eternal life differ from immortality; if at all?

Immortality applies to the body. See 1 Corinthians 15. Eternal life applies to the whole person.

 

[Hungry]

Good day Hungry!



Just fyi, the wicked will also be resurrected and receive an indestructible body, albeit mete for their punishment. For scripture states the following:

"And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

"and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."
(Acts 24:15)

"The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds" - Rev.20:11-15

The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" is defined as standing up again in a physical body, which is what Jesus did. Both the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected, i.e. in physical bodies. The righteous will have eternal life in those resurrection bodies in the presence of the Lord in the kingdom of God. Where the wicked will have eternal existence in their resurrected bodies in separation from God in the Lake of fire.

Is there a word to represent spiritually awaken to contrast the physically resurrected or is it possible that these things are all spoken to literally minded people and there’s a chance nothing will be like exactly described because people living back then had neither the understanding to conceptualize, nor the diction to describe it?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Is there a word to represent spiritually awaken to contrast the physically resurrected or is it possible that these things are all spoken to literally minded people and there’s a chance nothing will be like exactly described because people living back then had neither the understanding to conceptualize, nor the diction to describe it?

"And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt."

The reference to "will awake" is referring to the body that is asleep and will awake (resurrect). Below, Paul speaks about the same event:

"and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked."

Will awake = Resurrection

 

[lightbearer]

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How does eternal life differ from immortality; if at all?
_

Hi Weber! What is eternal life according to the passage?

 

[lightbearer]

There's no difference in the meaning at all. Eternal life is life eternal and vice versa.

John 17:2
καθὼς ἔδωκας αὐτῷ ἐξουσίαν πάσης σαρκός ἵνα πᾶν ὃ δέδωκας αὐτῷ δώσῃ αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον
Literal rendering: As you gave him authority over all flesh so that all whom you have given him, He may give to them life eternal.

King James Bible (idiomatic): As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

John 17:3
αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωή ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν
Literal rendering: This now is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and whom you have sent Jesus Christ.

King James Bible (idiomatic): And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Hi Nehemiah!
But what is eternal life, life eternal according to these passages? And here is the first rendering of 17:2 contextually what is the difference between it and the King James.

Jn 17:2
according as Thou -°givest Him authority over all flesh, that everything which Thou hast given to Him, He should be giving it to them, life eternal

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
(Joh 17:2 KJV)

 

[lightbearer]

More precisely we are body, soul, and spirit. Using the term flesh can be confusing since it can be applied either to the human body or the Adamic sin nature.

The body is mortal (subject to death) hence immortality pertains to the body.

The soul and spirit are imperishable, so you could apply the term eternal to them. But since eternal pertains to eternal life, imperishable is more accurate. Of course, the Annihilationists will claim that this is not so, by misinterpreting Scripture.

And yet....
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(Mat 10:28 KJV)

 

[Nehemiah6]

And yet....
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
(Mat 10:28 KJV)

Destroy here does not mean annihilate. It means the utter and eternal ruin of that individual. That in fact is eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 622: ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi)
...metaphorically, to devote or give over to eternal misery: Matthew 10:28;

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hi Nehemiah!
But what is eternal life, life eternal according to these passages? And here is the first rendering of 17:2 contextually what is the difference between it and the King James.

There is no difference whatsoever, and it is clear from the Greek that it is simply a change in word order. As to the meaning of eternal life, it means exactly what it says. A life which never ends and which is in the presence of God. We could go deeper into that but we can leave it at that.

 

[lightbearer]

Destroy here does not mean annihilate. It means the utter and eternal ruin of that individual. That in fact is eternal conscious torment in the Lake of Fire.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 622: ἀπόλλυμι (apollumi)
...metaphorically, to devote or give over to eternal misery: Matthew 10:28;

What is the purpose of a Lexicon?

 

[lightbearer]

There is no difference whatsoever, and it is clear from the Greek that it is simply a change in word order. As to the meaning of eternal life, it means exactly what it says. A life which never ends and which is in the presence of God. We could go deeper into that but we can leave it at that.

When is eternal Life, Life eternal. Did you know that The point in which Jesus is taking about knowing God and Him is in the Present tense.

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might be knowing thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Joh 17:2-3)

The verse says "and this life eternal. eternal Life"

What is eternal Life, Life eternal?

Knowing God and Jesus Christ.

How?

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
(Joh 17:21-23 KJV)

 

[lightbearer]

When is eternal Life, Life eternal. Did you know that The point in which Jesus is taking about knowing God and Him is in the Present tense.

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might be knowing thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Joh 17:2-3)

The verse says "and this life eternal. eternal Life"

What is eternal Life, Life eternal?

Knowing God and Jesus Christ.

How?

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
(Joh 17:21-23 KJV)

And then there is Eternal life IN Heaven after this system and all it's evil is done away at His Second Coming with all the Angels in the Glory of the Father.

 

[Ahwatukee]

When is eternal Life, Life eternal. Did you know that The point in which Jesus is taking about knowing God and Him is in the Present tense.

As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. And this is life eternal, that they might be knowing thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
(Joh 17:2-3)

The verse says "and this life eternal. eternal Life"

What is eternal Life, Life eternal?

Knowing God and Jesus Christ.

How?

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
(Joh 17:21-23 KJV)

Not that it needs to be said, but Life eternal and eternal life are the same thing, just as Christ Jesus is the same as Jesus Christ, or the lake that burns with sulfur is the same as the lake of fire, or the book of life belonging to the Lamb is the same as the book of life.

The point is that, they are just different ways of saying the same thing.

 

[Webers.Home]

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Hi Weber! What is eternal life according to the passage?

Why are you asking me? Ask lightbearer; it's his passage; he's the one
brought it up.
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