Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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Jul 23, 2018
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Seems you are coming about it in the wrong way. You don't have any faith in the gifts of the Spirit and are asking a sign and you know what Jesus said about that.
David hogan has witnessed hundreds raised from the dead in mexico.
I think i already posted the video.

Even if Jesus appeared at a murder scene or some accident and raised a person from the dead or restored a severed leg etc.,the cessationist would either say the devil did it or it was fake.

But never would Jesus get the glory.

To them Jesus lost all his power

They got a big big devil...and a tiny little Jesus
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Once again, it would pay to read 1 Corinthians 12. It is all explained. Are all apostles, Dave? I would say no. So that throws out your theory of only given to apostles, wouldn't you say?

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
But the gifts expired with the Apostles. Proof? no miracles today. Paul stopped healing his sick friends in the Epistles. The church has not had the gifts since the first century. And today's "knockoffs" have no trustworthy source in W. Seymour.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,....

(Not in the cessationists cherry picked butcher job workbook huh?)

You love your invincible ignorance.
That incubator has you perverting the word.
You do not know the bible.
Stop acting like you do.
This was one of only two outpourings.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.
You should be careful demanding about demanding a sign.
Jesus told those He fed who demanded a sign an evil and adulterous generation asks a sign....

Zecharias doubted and asked afier a sign . The sign Gabriel gave him was that he would be mute until the prophecy was fulfilled.

Here you are doubting and not accepting what the scriptures say and demanding a sign.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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You should be careful demanding about demanding a sign.
Jesus told those He fed who demanded a sign an evil and adulterous generation asks a sign....

Zecharias doubted and asked afier a sign . The sign Gabriel gave him was that he would be mute until the prophecy was fulfilled.

Here you are doubting and not accepting what the scriptures say and demanding a sign.
Says the guy without the gifts.....
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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But the gifts expired with the Apostles. Proof? no miracles today. Paul stopped healing his sick friends in the Epistles. The church has not had the gifts since the first century. And today's "knockoffs" have no trustworthy source in W. Seymour.
Have you lllmed ul sources .e tol Ed I this thread? You have not done your research. You also keep repeating ideas after they have been disproven by scripture also.

God does give grace to prophecy, teach, exhort, lead, give and serve. He did not merely leave us with our own human strength.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Have you lllmed ul sources .e tol Ed I this thread? You have not done your research. You also keep repeating ideas after they have been disproven by scripture also.

God does give grace to prophecy, teach, exhort, lead, give and serve. He did not merely leave us with our own human strength.
We are wearing this topic out. I'm not going to reply any further unless something of importance comes up.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Jesus promised this to the 12 Apostles.
You did not answer my question. I showed where John promised Judeans.

How does the blindness work? Do you not even see the words or do you just not understand?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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If you read the scripture that you posted, then you should be able to answer your question with it.

To one is given....to another is given... Didn't say everyone would have them all, did it? Now you can have more than one gift, but it is given by the Spirit as he wills.

Read 1 Corinthians 12. It explains it all well. Paul starts out by saying he would not have you ignorant concerning the gifts, and explains it really well in that chapter.
If we desire to have a understanding of those unseen thing of God called spiritual gifts. Then I would suggest we should be careful, how we say we hear and understand. It would be part of the understanding of things not seen (faith) . Like in Revelation But speaking to the bride of Christ the church .What does the Spirit say to us, the churches? having the ears to hear the unheard spiritual . Not what is our private interpretation of it.

Like fingerprints they do make up the body but no power coming from these bodies of death.

I would offer. A person would have to first look to the foundation of the doctrine set up in Isiah28 as the law not subject to change And in 1 Corinthians 14 adds to the law of tongues (prophecy) making it clear what the sign of falling backward represents .Then we can have a proper understanding of Chapter 12, spiritual gifts not seen. ( faith issue)

I would call it the; "they that hear the gospel as it is written. . . and not according to the oral traditions of men. . . they still refuse to believe without their oral tradition of men .Jerimiah 44: 16-17 gives us a little insight. Mankind that refuse to hearken onto the word of God but rather desired to do whatever comes from their own and see no evil in doing so .Its how the Queen of heaven false doctrine who the Catholics call Mary came in in making the word of God(sola scriptura) with effect.

They have another source of faith called oral tradition of men or a "law of the fathers". where men lord it over the faith of others.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not "hear". But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. 11-13

In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that they will not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe1 Corintiians 14:21-22

I would think .Once the foundation is in place then a better unseen understanding can be hoped for .

I wonder why some today call it being "slain in the spirit" as evidence. Evidence to what? . It could be understood as mocking God who with stammering (mocking deriding) lips established the law in Isaiah as it is written. For believers we must be careful how we hear .what kind of a sign are we demonstrating to the world?


Not like those in Hebrews 6 who hear but do not believe . Better things accompany salvation God promises us he will not forget the good works we have offered towards his name . Like a friend said: If you grin you're in.

Jump in with joyful grin . Why fall backward and down from a frown?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.
Real what?

Since they are signs that follow after one has believed. We understand tit was he result of the faith of Christ working in them to both will and do his good pleasure.(imputed righteousness) . Then we know the sign pointed back to the unseen finished work of faith as the labor of Gods love in us.

In His authority whenever two or three gather together in his name with his power working in them . . . They shall cast out lying spirits of unbelief. ; They shall speak the gospel as prophecy , from faith to faith as the tongue of God. They can honor God with new born again heart and tongue .Hoping, praying God will apply his seed to their hearts ;

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that "believe"; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

The kind of sign as it would seem you are looking at is. The sign that seeing is believing. . . no faith needed is more like below.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Made Jesus into a circus seal.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Or I am from Missouri the. ."seeing is believing" religious organization .
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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But the gifts expired with the Apostles. Proof? no miracles today. Paul stopped healing his sick friends in the Epistles. The church has not had the gifts since the first century. And today's "knockoffs" have no trustworthy source in W. Seymour.
Your ignorance of the miraculous happening today is not proof of its absence. Seriously man, you need to learn some basic logic and stop making fallacious arguments.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
Show some miracles happening in the epistles where Paul dealt with sick friends without healing them. And today. Any documented miracles other than through the prayer of faith? Why are tongues real today if the rest of the gifts aren't?
I believe you might just be one of the most biblically confused people ever to grace this forum

I disagree with certain things with some people, but I can agree with them on other things

however, I cannot find one single doctrine that most people here would actually agree is biblical, that you have not somehow managed to skew and confuse

your silly little prove this or prove that one liners show that you cannot even exchange thoughts with others who go to some trouble to document what they say from scripture

no one has to prove anything to you. you have a Bible like the rest of us who point out your continuing errors...which have accumulated in your ops and are far more than whether or not the gifts of God through His Spirit continue

salvation is another of your topics which you have both belittled and utterly got more than a little wrong

so you cannot even manage a decent op on the most basic of doctrines

YOU are the one that needs to prove things are as YOU say. the burden is on you and no one else

but as I said, you do seem to hold the record for the most biblically challenged person yet in these forums...at least during the time I have been here
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.

you like the devil tempting Jesus in the wilderness

prove Jesus is resurrected and in heaven
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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“For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:” 1 Corinthians 12:8–10 (KJV 1900)
This is a list of different types of Spiritual gifts that God distributes as He will. There is a distinction between tongues. I explained this in the an OP I just created: A Distinction Between Tongues.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
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Do a miracle and verify your "tongues" are real according to scripture.
Faith is paramount. If you don't see what is in scripture, why not ask God to reveal it to you? There is no denying the truth when God provides it.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Your ignorance of the miraculous happening today is not proof of its absence. Seriously man, you need to learn some basic logic and stop making fallacious arguments.
Let's have some documentation.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Real what?

Since they are signs that follow after one has believed. We understand tit was he result of the faith of Christ working in them to both will and do his good pleasure.(imputed righteousness) . Then we know the sign pointed back to the unseen finished work of faith as the labor of Gods love in us.

In His authority whenever two or three gather together in his name with his power working in them . . . They shall cast out lying spirits of unbelief. ; They shall speak the gospel as prophecy , from faith to faith as the tongue of God. They can honor God with new born again heart and tongue .Hoping, praying God will apply his seed to their hearts ;

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that "believe"; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

The kind of sign as it would seem you are looking at is. The sign that seeing is believing. . . no faith needed is more like below.

John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Made Jesus into a circus seal.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Or I am from Missouri the. ."seeing is believing" religious organization .
No proof.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Says the guy without the gifts.....
I've ministered in gifts, mainly teaching, occasionally a word of knowledge and a few people have been healed when I laid hands on them.

The issue is here, you make claims, we disprove them with scripture, then you make the same claims again.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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I've ministered in gifts, mainly teaching, occasionally a word of knowledge and a few people have been healed when I laid hands on them.

The issue is here, you make claims, we disprove them with scripture, then you make the same claims again.
You might think you do.
 

TooFastTurtle

Active member
Apr 10, 2019
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David hogan has witnessed hundreds raised from the dead in mexico.
I think i already posted the video.

Even if Jesus appeared at a murder scene or some accident and raised a person from the dead or restored a severed leg etc.,the cessationist would either say the devil did it or it was fake.

But never would Jesus get the glory.

To them Jesus lost all his power

They got a big big devil...and a tiny little Jesus
Is there any video of what David Hogan described?