Transubstantiation - Is it a mircle?

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Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#1
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
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#1
Is Transubstantiation a true miracle or is the Lords Supper a symbolic gesture of remembering Christ's sacrifice through His Body and by His Blood?
The history of the of this is so long and broad, I couldn't even begin to try and capture all of it in one OP. Many different Christians have deeply held beliefs on this. Is the blood and body of Christ present during this? Is it simply a sacrament of the Early Church? Why do Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant, Roman Catholic have differing views? Are any of them correct? Has Man taken a simple example that Jesus did for His Disciples and turn it into something its not? I think this is an interesting topic as the Lords Supper is a interictal part of Christian history and tradition.

Thoughts?
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#2
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
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#2
Aerials1978 said:
Is Transubstantiation a true miracle or is the Lords Supper a symbolic gesture of remembering Christ's sacrifice through His Body and by His Blood?
The history of the of this is so long and broad, I couldn't even begin to try and capture all of it in one OP. Many different Christians have deeply held beliefs on this. Is the blood and body of Christ present during this? Is it simply a sacrament of the Early Church? Why do Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant, Roman Catholic have differing views? Are any of them correct? Has Man taken a simple example that Jesus did for His Disciples and turn it into something its not? I think this is an interesting topic as the Lords Supper is a interictal part of Christian history and tradition.

Thoughts?
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Miracles are miracles because you can prove them to be. This is is what's wrong with today's claims..... no proof.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#3
#3
Not a miracle since nothing changes.....but it is an attempt to convince people of alchemy.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#4
Jun 30, 2015
25,495
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#4
Transsubstantiation is the belief held by Catholics that the elements (bread and wine) used in Communion are "transformed" into the literal body and blood of Jesus when they are sanctified, even though they keep their outward appearance.

It's neither symbolic nor miraculous. Rather, it's unbiblical hogwash.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#6
#6
Aerials1978 said:
Alchemy! I haven’t heard that one before. I like that.
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That is the basis of transubstantiation...I used to have source material from the Catholic Church on it...not sure if I still have it, I will take a look.
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#7
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#7
Aerials1978 said:
Is Transubstantiation a true miracle or is the Lords Supper a symbolic gesture of remembering Christ's sacrifice through His Body and by His Blood?
The history of the of this is so long and broad, I couldn't even begin to try and capture all of it in one OP. Many different Christians have deeply held beliefs on this. Is the blood and body of Christ present during this? Is it simply a sacrament of the Early Church? Why do Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant, Roman Catholic have differing views? Are any of them correct? Has Man taken a simple example that Jesus did for His Disciples and turn it into something its not? I think this is an interesting topic as the Lords Supper is a interictal part of Christian history and tradition.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
1 cor 11..
He who eats and drink WORTHY- showing the lords death tillbhe come.

He who eats and drink UNWORTHY - is guilty of the body and blood...

It depends on how you understand the Lord death.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#8
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
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#8
EleventhHour said:
That is the basis of transubstantiation...I used to have source material from the Catholic Church on it...not sure if I still have it, I will take a look.
Click to expand...
Aside from the theological aspect, I think of this in practical terms. If was going to start a new faith among Jews, I certainly wouldn’t incorporate something that could be construed as cannibalism since this was highly forbidden.
 
B

bojack

Well-known member
#9
Dec 16, 2019
2,309
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#9
This is one of those things I had no idea some taught this until 20 or more yrs after I became a Christian .. Shake my head, and they let some of those filthy guys feed them with those crackers with their filthy hands ..
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#10
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
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#10
bojack said:
This is one of those things I had no idea some taught this until 20 or more yrs after I became a Christian .. Shake my head, and they let some of those filthy guys feed them with those crackers with their filthy hands ..
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I didn’t really think about the sanitation of the hands and such. Good point.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#11
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
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#11
Dino246 said:
Transsubstantiation is the belief held by Catholics that the elements (bread and wine) used in Communion are "transformed" into the literal body and blood of Jesus when they are sanctified, even though they keep their outward appearance.

It's neither symbolic nor miraculous. Rather, it's unbiblical hogwash.
Click to expand...
Agreed. It's cannibalism.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#12
#12
I like what the Lutherans have to say about it. There is no transubstantiation nor is it symbolic.
Jesus said what he said and it is what is. Jesus giving his body and blood to us in the form of bread and wine.
I find it pretty sad that many Christians have the same problem many of Jesus' disciples had even though Jesus answered them. He said," my words are Spirit" in the book of John, when they said," this is a hard saying who can hear it?" .
So yes it is indeed the body and blood of Jesus, even though it is bread and wine. How can it be? By the power of the Holy Spirit.
 
J

Jackson123

Senior Member
#13
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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#13
Aerials1978 said:
Is Transubstantiation a true miracle or is the Lords Supper a symbolic gesture of remembering Christ's sacrifice through His Body and by His Blood?
The history of the of this is so long and broad, I couldn't even begin to try and capture all of it in one OP. Many different Christians have deeply held beliefs on this. Is the blood and body of Christ present during this? Is it simply a sacrament of the Early Church? Why do Greek Orthodox, Anglican, Protestant, Roman Catholic have differing views? Are any of them correct? Has Man taken a simple example that Jesus did for His Disciples and turn it into something its not? I think this is an interesting topic as the Lords Supper is a interictal part of Christian history and tradition.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Not to me.

I can make money from white paper but look like white paper and I use It to buy a car

I say to car dealer this is money. Than depend oN the car dealer If he believe or not

It is Lie, but some people believe in lie
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#14
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#14
Locoponydirtman said:
I like what the Lutherans have to say about it. There is no transubstantiation nor is it symbolic.
Jesus said what he said and it is what is. Jesus giving his body and blood to us in the form of bread and wine.
I find it pretty sad that many Christians have the same problem many of Jesus' disciples had even though Jesus answered them. He said," my words are Spirit" in the book of John, when they said," this is a hard saying who can hear it?" .
So yes it is indeed the body and blood of Jesus, even though it is bread and wine. How can it be? By the power of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
I think it is the notion over presence and what form it is being taken. Certainly it’s not literal flesh and blood.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#15
#15
Aerials1978 said:
I think it is the notion over presence and what form it is being taken. Certainly it’s not literal flesh and blood.
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Why not Jesus said it was. I believe him over my own logic. I personally have been wrong on occasion. Jesus was fairly pointed in his statement concerning it.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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#16
Dec 10, 2019
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#16
Locoponydirtman said:
Why not Jesus said it was. I believe him over my own logic. I personally have been wrong on occasion. Jesus was fairly pointed in his statement concerning it.
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Jesus was speaking in an allegorical context. He also said that he was The Gate. We don’t view as being a literal gate. Also, he spoke to Jews who viewed cannibalism as an abomination.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#17
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
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#17
Jackson123 said:
Not to me.

I can make money from white paper but look like white paper and I use It to buy a car

I say to car dealer this is money. Than depend oN the car dealer If he believe or not

It is Lie, but some people believe in lie
Click to expand...
A lot of this came from the Nicene period. It’s very confusing and in my opinion unbiblical.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#18
#18
Aerials1978 said:
Jesus was speaking in an allegorical context. He also said that he was The Gate. We don’t view as being a literal gate. Also, he spoke to Jews who viewed cannibalism as an abomination.
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No sir, read what he said and how his disciples responded and how he answered. Reading comprehension is not one of my weak points.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

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#19
Dec 10, 2019
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#19
Locoponydirtman said:
No sir, read what he said and how his disciples responded and how he answered. Reading comprehension is not one of my weak points.
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I have read the text many times. Many walked away because it was a hard teaching. If God(The Father) gave that law that human flesh was not to be eaten, why would Jesus literally ask for people to eat him? It’s a complete contradiction.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#20
#20
I
Aerials1978 said:
I have read the text many times. Many walked away because it was a hard teaching. If God(The Father) gave that law that human flesh was not to be eaten, why would Jesus literally ask for people to eat him? It’s a complete contradiction.
Click to expand...
It's not my job to convince you.
You either believe what Jesus said or you don't.
 
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