Not By Works

[lightbearer]

You nullify the work of the cross and make it of no effect.

You DENY the power of Christ Jesus

You place your work above the saving GRACE of God

The entire book of Hebrews affirms salvation is secure.

You deny God's truth to keep and protect your own pride.

God has said,
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (upon one occasion only)".
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

As you know "Once for all" is ἐφάπαξ in the Greek. Strong's Lexicon in the back of his concordance concurs that it means upon one occasion only .
ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

GOD has said,

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (not sanctified forever) them that are sanctified. WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."


NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost as verses 26-29 put forth through God's Holy Spirit.

For GOD has said,
"For if WE (the church, including the writer) are sinning willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who are sinning willfully). He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( GOD'S Law in the hearts and minds)"
(Heb 10:26-29)

WAS SANCTIFIED, Sanctification LOST because they done despite unto the Spirit of grace which they were given Because GOD has said it must be so.

 

[mailmandan]

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (upon one occasion only).
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

As you know "Once for all" is ἐφάπαξ in the Greek. Strong's Lexicon in the back of his concordance concurs.
ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

Once for all means once for all and not temporarily. Verse 14 further backs it up with He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. There is nothing temporary here.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (not sanctified forever) them that are sanctified.

False. You can try and twist sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all/perfected (to bring to an end, to complete, perfect) for all time those who are sanctified all you want, but you are not fooling me.

WHEREOF

(this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them.

You lost your credibility with me when you made this disturbing statement about the Gospel back in 2018.

It is not sugar coated it is sweet the whole way through. It is the Gospel; the New Covenant. The ministry of reconciliation
The Life Death and Resurrection is the means to the Gospel not the Gospel.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For how shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. That the righteousness of GOD be fulfilled in us that walk after the Spirit; not after the flesh. For this purpose was the Son of GOD manifested. That HE destroy the works of the Devil. (2Co 5:17-18; 1Pe 2:24; Rom 6:2-4KJV)

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; the Book of the Law) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; the Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Book of the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

For Christ (the Word; the Book of the Law is in our mouths and in our hearts) is the end of the written law for righteousness to everyone that believeth that it is in their hearts, minds, mouths and in their hands that they do it. That is the Faith to which we speak and that my friend is the GOSPEL; the New Covenant. For the LORD will circumcise our hearts. The circumcision made without hands. The circumcision of Christ! (Rom 1:5; 1:16-17 10:6-8,4 KJV)

Amen!

NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost as verses 26-29 put forth through God's Holy Spirit.

FALSE.

For if WE (the church, including the writer) are sinning willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who are sinning willfully). He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( GOD'S Law in the hearts and minds)
(Heb 10:26-29)

WAS SANCTIFIED, Sanctification LOST because they done despite unto the Spirit of grace which they were given.

Absolutely false. Once again, see post #19 from the link below.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/that-hebrews-10v26-thread.189675/#post-4132251

 

[John146]

Faith is 'the evidence of things unseen' (Hebrews 11:1).
That comes from God.

Actually, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Christ was completely obedient to every word of His father.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Someone reminded me of this post which shows lightsabers true thinking

It is not sugar coated it is sweet the whole way through. It is the Gospel; the New Covenant. The ministry of reconciliation
The Life Death and Resurrection is the means to the Gospel not the Gospel.

Amen!

Here is the quote that hit the nail on this persons true gospel.

Paul said this

1 cor 2: 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified

according to this person. The thing paul wanted to us to know more than anything else. Is just the staring point.

 

[EleventhHour]

God has said,
"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (upon one occasion only)".
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

As you know "Once for all" is ἐφάπαξ in the Greek. Strong's Lexicon in the back of his concordance concurs that it means upon one occasion only .
ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

GOD has said,

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (not sanctified forever) them that are sanctified. WHEREOF (this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."


NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost as verses 26-29 put forth through God's Holy Spirit.

For GOD has said,
"For if WE (the church, including the writer) are sinning willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who are sinning willfully). He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( GOD'S Law in the hearts and minds)"
(Heb 10:26-29)

WAS SANCTIFIED, Sanctification LOST because they done despite unto the Spirit of grace which they were given Because GOD has said it must be so.

This person is wrong ...no one believe it.

Sanctification is positional and justified is positional based on the full complete work of the victorious Jesus Christ.

If these positions could be lost it would mean Jesus was a failure...which is exactly what this person preaches.

 

[EleventhHour]

Someone reminded me of this post which shows lightsabers true thinking



Here is the quote that hit the nail on this persons true gospel.

Paul said this

1 cor 2: 2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified

according to this person. The thing paul wanted to us to know more than anything else. Is just the staring point.

Wow completely disgusting to state the Gospel is not the Gospel....what Jesus did was not enough.

 

[John146]

This person is wrong ...no one believe it.

Sanctification is positional and justified is positional based on the full complete work of the victorious Jesus Christ.

If these positions could be lost it would mean Jesus was a failure...which is exactly what this person preaches.

Absolutely correct! Sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is our earnest, our guarantee that the future redemption will take place. That promise is not based upon behavior. We are told:

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Our behavior may grieve the Holy Spirit, but we remain sealed.

 

[EleventhHour]

Absolutely correct! Sealed by the Holy Spirit, which is our earnest, our guarantee that the future redemption will take place. That promise is not based upon behavior. We are told:

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Our behavior may grieve the Holy Spirit, but we remain sealed.

Amen and Amen!

After reading all those horrible posts by those two false teachers good to read Truth.

Jesus keeps His promises and He conquered sin and death.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wow completely disgusting to state the Gospel is not the Gospel....what Jesus did was not enough.

it is why he says one thing, but really means another.

He say the gospel is not even the gospel. It is just the START..

 

[mailmandan]

Wow completely disgusting to state the Gospel is not the Gospel....what Jesus did was not enough.

Amen to that!

 

[lightbearer]

Once for all means once for all and not temporarily. Verse 14 further backs it up with He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. There is nothing temporary here.

The following is a Fact.
"Once for all" is ἐφάπαξ in the Greek. Strong's Lexicon in the back of his concordance concurs.
ἐφάπαξ
ephapax
ef-ap'-ax
From G1909 and G530; upon one occasion (only): - (at) once (for all).

UPON ONE OCCASION, only once. NOT TO BE REPEATED
.

By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all (upon one occasion only, NOT TO BE REPEATED).
(Heb 10:10 KJV)

False. You can try and twist sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all/perfected (to bring to an end, to complete, perfect) for all time those who are sanctified all you want, but you are not fooling me.

You can't prove it wrong. YOU KNOW WHY? Because it is grammatically and contextually true. GOD is very purposeful in HIS wording.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever (not sanctified forever) them that are sanctified.
Two separate things. GOD has perfected for ever THEM THAT ARE sanctified.

This perfecting is the subject of the sentence. As the next sentence starts it starts with a word that brings what follows back to the subject. WHEREOF (back to the subject in the previous sentence, this perfection in which we speak) the Holy Ghost ALSO is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."



NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost as verses 26-29 put forth through God's Holy Spirit. But God's laws put in the heart and mind is forever.

For if WE (the church, including the writer) are sinning willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth (we are sanctified, a new wine skin filled with the New Wine, A new Conscience, the old purged and replaced with God's laws in the heart and mind through Christ's indwelling) there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries (those who are sinning willfully). He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted (show by example, leading) the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? ( GOD'S Law in the hearts and minds)
(Heb 10:26-29)

WAS SANCTIFIED, Sanctification LOST because they done despite unto the Spirit of grace which they were given.

You can't do despite unto the Spirit unless you have the Spirit.

You can speculate that the writer is not including himself in the warning and that the sanctified are not truly sanctified but as for me and my house we will believe and follow the word of of GOD.

 

[EleventhHour]

Amen to that!

View attachment 211161

Reminds me of that old song.....


Smiling faces, smiling faces, sometimes, yeah
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces tell lies and I got proof

 

[lightbearer]

it is why he says one thing, but really means another.

He say the gospel is not even the gospel. It is just the START..

More accusations.

The Gospel is us being able to be reconciled to GOD. The life, death and resurrection is the means to this. Without the reconciliation we have nothing, that is why Christ lived, Died and was Resurrected so that we can be reconciled. That is the GOOD NEWS, that is the GOSPEL

It is not sugar coated it is sweet the whole way through. It is the Gospel; the New Covenant. The ministry of reconciliation
The Life Death and Resurrection is the means to the Gospel not the Gospel.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. For how shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. That the righteousness of GOD be fulfilled in us that walk after the Spirit; not after the flesh. For this purpose was the Son of GOD manifested. That HE destroy the works of the Devil. (2Co 5:17-18; 1Pe 2:24; Rom 6:2-4KJV)

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. So Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; the Book of the Law) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; the Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ; the Book of the Law) is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach.

For Christ (the Word; the Book of the Law is in our mouths and in our hearts) is the end of the written law for righteousness to everyone that believeth that it is in their hearts, minds, mouths and in their hands that they do it. That is the Faith to which we speak and that my friend is the GOSPEL; the New Covenant. For the LORD will circumcise our hearts. The circumcision made without hands. The circumcision of Christ! (Rom 1:5; 1:16-17 10:6-8,4 KJV)

Amen!

 

[EleventhHour]

NOT SANCTIFIED forever, Sanctification can be lost as verses 26-29 put forth through God's Holy Spirit. But God's laws put in the heart and mind is forever.

Wrong, these verses do not even come close to making that assertion.

Loss of sanctification not in view.. adding that to the text!!

Verse 31 and 32 make it clear that the author of Hebrews is warning of temporal judgement not eternal.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the the hands of the living God."
32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great flight of afflictions.

 

[EleventhHour]

The Gospel is us being able to be reconciled to GOD.

Incorrect, not true, false and wrong, we are reconciled to God when we are born from above, spiritually regenerated.

2 Cor 5:18
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

 

[EleventhHour]

it is why he says one thing, but really means another.

He say the gospel is not even the gospel. It is just the START..

Agree, false teachers typically employ 'double speak'

 

[Judges1318]

You have previously used 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 to teach that some believers will not hold fast to the word/the gospel that Paul preached and lose their salvation

I use it to show you are saved by the gospel if you hold fast the word of the gospel:

"the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you" - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2

Osas reads that to mean true believers will always continue to believe, and that's how you can tell who's really saved (I mean, if you ignore the fact that there is always tomorrow to stop believing and show you weren't really a true believer all along).
But what the passage is plainly saying is you are presently saved if you presently hold fast the word of the gospel.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1co/15/1/t_conc_1077002

That's the simplicity of the gospel. If you really believe right now, then you are saved right now. No complicated and contradictory doctrinal constructs, and weird illogical tests for if you really believe or not, required.

 

[Mdennis1]

I just posted this in another... Abraham believed was Counted righteousness then did a work to show or prove his faith... Circumcisions.. You can't throw out works.. they prove your faith

Absolutely.. Works are the result of true saving faith. amen

 

[EleventhHour]

That's the simplicity of the gospel. If you really believe right now, then you are saved right now.

And once you are His you stay His,

because Jesus inhabits the believer, imputes His righteousness, declares the believer innocent, declares the believer justified and sanctified within His grace ... a place from which the believer cannot be removed because Jesus was victorious and remains faithful.

Do you go to the "Church of Required Perpetual Belief" of something?

I would strongly advise the "Church of the Faithful, Victorious Christ" instead.

 

[Judges1318]

but now you are saying "believed in vain" in verse 4 is connected with "Christ has not risen" in verse 14? So those who believe the gospel are saved, unless Christ has not risen?

Paul plainly explains for us what he means by "unless you believed in vain".
You can't be saved by a gospel about a risen Christ no matter how strong and sure your believing is if Christ really didn't rise from the dead.

"2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain."

"14and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain."

"17and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. "

1 Corinthians 15:2,14,17

No amount of believing in Paul's gospel of a risen Christ (vs.3-8) is going to save anybody if Christ has not really been raised from the dead. But osas ignores the context provided right in the chapter and says "unless you believed in vain" means you are saved by the gospel unless you didn't really believe, and because you don't really believe you won't hold fast to the gospel like true believers do. But as we can see in this post and my last post that's not the message Paul is communicating.