Was the person who falls away drawn to Jesus by the Father?
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Its like I was predicting the future...
Of course, if you were trying really hard to prove that once a person was flying they could stop flying mid-flight then you would ignore this aspect of the impossible situation. You would just say, "see right there, it says you can stop flying mid flight".
There sure are a LOT of passages you MUST ignore in order to insert your (wrong) suppositions into Hebrew 6:4-6
But that's kind of the whole problem with legalists and judaizers. They ignore the promises of God and insert their wrong suppositions in order to support their silliness.
John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
What you are trying to assert in Hebrews 6 is a direct contradiction of the Lord Jesus Christ.
You are trying to make an impossible hypothetical situation into something that not only can happen but DOES. Even though the Lord Jesus has said it cannot happen.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Let that one marinate for a bit.
Of course, if you were trying really hard to prove that once a person was flying they could stop flying mid-flight then you would ignore this aspect of the impossible situation. You would just say, "see right there, it says you can stop flying mid flight".
There sure are a LOT of passages you MUST ignore in order to insert your (wrong) suppositions into Hebrew 6:4-6
But that's kind of the whole problem with legalists and judaizers. They ignore the promises of God and insert their wrong suppositions in order to support their silliness.
John 10:27-28
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
What you are trying to assert in Hebrews 6 is a direct contradiction of the Lord Jesus Christ.
You are trying to make an impossible hypothetical situation into something that not only can happen but DOES. Even though the Lord Jesus has said it cannot happen.
Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Let that one marinate for a bit.
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But that experience in your heart is not the new birth. It's simply the voice of truth, the voice of the Holy Spirit testifying about Jesus. This is all explained in 1 John 5:9-11. There it explains how some believe the testimony of the Holy Spirit, while others reject it, in effect calling God a liar.
Revelation has to come before conversion. And as King Saul shows us, all you need is the presence of the Holy Spirit to be able to see the unseen. You do not have to be saved to see the unseen (1 John 5:9-11). He was gifted in prophecy when the Spirit was present, but was a raving mad murderer when the Spirit was not present.
Revelation has to come before conversion. And as King Saul shows us, all you need is the presence of the Holy Spirit to be able to see the unseen. You do not have to be saved to see the unseen (1 John 5:9-11). He was gifted in prophecy when the Spirit was present, but was a raving mad murderer when the Spirit was not present.
That's what the testimony of the Holy Spirit is for!
Not in salvation, but in an empowering to be able to see what you can't see with your natural self. 1 John 5:9-11 shows us that empowering is the testimony of the Spirit speaking to a person, not the indwelling Spirit in salvation. And that we can either receive what He says, or we can reject it.
Read 1 John 5:9-11. Nothing there about being born again first in order to be able to receive and believe the testimony of God.
Not in salvation, but in an empowering to be able to see what you can't see with your natural self. 1 John 5:9-11 shows us that empowering is the testimony of the Spirit speaking to a person, not the indwelling Spirit in salvation. And that we can either receive what He says, or we can reject it.
Read 1 John 5:9-11. Nothing there about being born again first in order to be able to receive and believe the testimony of God.
Of course you can stop flying mid flight. It's called 'falling'.
Your analogy is so absurd I can't even give it much attention beyond that.
Bring them here.
I'll address every single one of them.
Osas has to make so many passages not really mean what they say, just as it does with this Hebrews 6:4-6 passage. I can't believe so many people can't see that.
Read the whole chapter where that quote comes from.
Read this and let it marinate for a bit:
"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.” - Deuteronomy 31:
"17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:17
See, the very quote you use to try to prove that God will never leave or forsake you comes from the very scripture that explains He will leave and forsake you if....
It's not the unconditional promise you think it is. You have to ignore the passage being quoted in order to think that. And many people do that even after showing them what it actually says.
I'm guessing what comes next is an explanation of why Deuteronomy 31 doesn't actually mean what it plainly says.
Your analogy is so absurd I can't even give it much attention beyond that.
Bring them here.
I'll address every single one of them.
Osas has to make so many passages not really mean what they say, just as it does with this Hebrews 6:4-6 passage. I can't believe so many people can't see that.
Read the whole chapter where that quote comes from.
Read this and let it marinate for a bit:
"8The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.” - Deuteronomy 31:
"17And in that day I will become angry with them and forsake them" - Deuteronomy 31:17
See, the very quote you use to try to prove that God will never leave or forsake you comes from the very scripture that explains He will leave and forsake you if....
It's not the unconditional promise you think it is. You have to ignore the passage being quoted in order to think that. And many people do that even after showing them what it actually says.
I'm guessing what comes next is an explanation of why Deuteronomy 31 doesn't actually mean what it plainly says.
No, the faith upon which you do your believing is the gift.
It is through that gift of faith (the ability to know what you can't see is really true) that you then trust in Christ and are justified/ saved.
The condition for salvation is that you retain the free gift of faith, not reject it in willful unbelief. This is explained in 1 John 5:9-11. When the Holy Spirit shows you that the gospel of Jesus is true you have the choice to either reject that revelation of truth in unbelief, or, retain it and trust in it, and be saved.
It is through that gift of faith (the ability to know what you can't see is really true) that you then trust in Christ and are justified/ saved.
The condition for salvation is that you retain the free gift of faith, not reject it in willful unbelief. This is explained in 1 John 5:9-11. When the Holy Spirit shows you that the gospel of Jesus is true you have the choice to either reject that revelation of truth in unbelief, or, retain it and trust in it, and be saved.
I think accepting JESUS IS realizing you Can’t keep or relate to GODs PERFECT standard of righteousness In your own strength so then trying to keep the law would mean that If that person sinned a big sin or a small sin they would come short of the glory of GOD not Being accepted because they weren’t perfect and they had to just realize If they were going to be saved they just humbly needed the mercy of GOD.
ENTER JESUS WHOM did keep the law PERFECTLY and HIS sacrifice was accepted by GOD now the Issue for man would be faith ,not trying to keep the law ,not that Trying to keep the law Is a bad thing because After salvation as a result of finding themselves a new creation the person will establish the law.Trying to keep the law before salvation means that person was using their own strength and we know work Is work and a gift Is not worked for.
It’s just that that person would fail to be perfect with their body or their thoughts and would not be accepted.Thank you JESUS.
John 3:14-16
King James Version
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
ENTER JESUS WHOM did keep the law PERFECTLY and HIS sacrifice was accepted by GOD now the Issue for man would be faith ,not trying to keep the law ,not that Trying to keep the law Is a bad thing because After salvation as a result of finding themselves a new creation the person will establish the law.Trying to keep the law before salvation means that person was using their own strength and we know work Is work and a gift Is not worked for.
It’s just that that person would fail to be perfect with their body or their thoughts and would not be accepted.Thank you JESUS.
John 3:14-16
King James Version
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
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37. All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. (NASB) The Book of John chapter 6
God knows His own. The parable of the Prodigal Son tells us that being God knows His children, if one should fall away God will not cast them out. Because He is the eternal all knowing Father of all creation.
If we accept God draws people to Himself, then I think we owe it to that belief to accept that God knows them in ways no mortal ever shall. If one falls out of the church, does that mean God made a mistake calling that one to Himself? Or does it mean that while God will never cast us out, he is well aware we may stray off the path for whatever reason. And perhaps that is let to happen so that we find our way home, realizing we cannot make it alone. Again, as the Prodigal showed us, and proved to himself.
God knows. Who are we to judge who are His when we here believe we are. God knows.
God knows His own. The parable of the Prodigal Son tells us that being God knows His children, if one should fall away God will not cast them out. Because He is the eternal all knowing Father of all creation.
If we accept God draws people to Himself, then I think we owe it to that belief to accept that God knows them in ways no mortal ever shall. If one falls out of the church, does that mean God made a mistake calling that one to Himself? Or does it mean that while God will never cast us out, he is well aware we may stray off the path for whatever reason. And perhaps that is let to happen so that we find our way home, realizing we cannot make it alone. Again, as the Prodigal showed us, and proved to himself.
God knows. Who are we to judge who are His when we here believe we are. God knows.