If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???

[JaumeJ]

Correct.

The error you make is that the commandments for the believer are the same as the commandments for ancient Israel.

Or, you limit the commandments to the Ten Commandments.

There are many commandments that the believer observes, because he is being conformed to the image of Christ.

It is YOUR claim that the Saturday Sabbath is included in these commandments that the righteous follow, and that they still apply today.

I have no more concern for the Sabbath than for physical circumcision, because days and diet are not part of the commandments for the NT believer.

Colossians 2:16-17 addresses the calendar issues, and other sections address the meat issue.

By the way, folks, SDAs consider drinking any alcohol whatsoever as sin. When I told one SDA that Jesus drank wine, he said that was a blasphemous claim. I found this ironic, since he was smoking cigarettes and died of lung cancer later. However, the SDAs basically told him that he would lose his salvation if he didn't quit smoking. Later he quit, when he was on oxygen and couldn't smoke anymore. So, I'm pretty sure he died thinking he was saved.

And, I have been told by SDA pastors that smokers are told they must quit or they will be disfellowshipped. Actually I think smoking is a sin, but I wouldn't disfellowship someone for it.

Anyways, to get back to the topic, realize that Sabbathkeepers view the word "commandments" with an emphasis on the Sabbath, rather than all of the teachings for the Christian under the New Covenant. Days and diet would be very important to them.

Since you have no problem with "days" then you should have no problem with those who hear the Father in the Ten Commandments and choose to obey Him and not the ways of man.
Also Sunday should have no more meaning than Wednesday to you thinking, and this is absolutely correct as far as concerning worship for those who do believe worship the Father every day, every moment possible.

 

[JaumeJ]

Scripture acknowledges no other authoritative body of writing OR oral tradition that can be identified.

The one verse that Roman Catholics use to "prove" their oral tradition cannot be used in that manner, because there is nothing to affirm it as true.

Same with any other oral law or tradition. If you claim something is a valid oral tradition, then the burden of proof is on you.

You cannot prove the oral traditions of Judaism or Roman Catholicism. Paul himself called such things "Jewish fables" and told Christians to disregard them.

Scripture is used to demonstrate many dogmas, some of the which are false. It is the Holy Spirit that gives life and understanding to what is written, not a spiritless interpretation.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is not only the sacrificial laws which no longer apply, the laws of priesthood, clean laws, laws on punishment and more do not apply, however all laws which come together to make up the two great laws will always apply, ask Jesus, Yeshua..

 

[Grandpa]

It was the sacrificial laws that was done away with not GODs Ten commandments. Jesus said that Heaven and earth would pass away
before one jot or one tittle of The LAW, AND Heaven and Earth is still HERE, AND SO IS HIS LAWS,YOU can say they have passed away if you want to, BUT you will still FACE them in the END, Then you will wish that you had kept them, With out a doubt, GOD dose not change and neither will HIS LAWS, IF they where right then, they are RIGHT NOW, GOD bless as HE sees fit

Lots of contradictions in your statement.

If God doesn't change and neither will His Laws then what happened to sacrificing animals?

Weren't those "Jots and Tittles" of the Law?


If they were right then how come they are not right now?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If some of the jots and tittles have passed then what does that say for the rest of the jots and tittles???

 

[bud62]

Correct.

The error you make is that the commandments for the believer are the same as the commandments for ancient Israel.

Or, you limit the commandments to the Ten Commandments.

There are many commandments that the believer observes, because he is being conformed to the image of Christ.

It is YOUR claim that the Saturday Sabbath is included in these commandments that the righteous follow, and that they still apply today.

I have no more concern for the Sabbath than for physical circumcision, because days and diet are not part of the commandments for the NT believer.

Colossians 2:16-17 addresses the calendar issues, and other sections address the meat issue.

By the way, folks, SDAs consider drinking any alcohol whatsoever as sin. When I told one SDA that Jesus drank wine, he said that was a blasphemous claim. I found this ironic, since he was smoking cigarettes and died of lung cancer later. However, the SDAs basically told him that he would lose his salvation if he didn't quit smoking. Later he quit, when he was on oxygen and couldn't smoke anymore. So, I'm pretty sure he died thinking he was saved.

And, I have been told by SDA pastors that smokers are told they must quit or they will be disfellowshipped. Actually I think smoking is a sin, but I wouldn't disfellowship someone for it.

Anyways, to get back to the topic, realize that Sabbathkeepers view the word "commandments" with an emphasis on the Sabbath, rather than all of the teachings for the Christian under the New Covenant. Days and diet would be very important to them.

The SABBATH GO's BACK TO creation, Not to MOSES Hand writings, Which was a shadow, But the SABBATH is HOLY unto the LORD, And We will even KEEP it in the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH,ISAIAH 66:22-23, I HOPE GOD straighten you out ON walking on HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY, GOD made it HOLY and it is STILL HOLY, AND THERES IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MAKE IT UNHOLY, BUT FOR yourself, GOD blessed it and it will remain BLESSED, PRAISE GOD FOR HIS SABBATH DAY. Isaiah 56:2 BLESSED IS THE MAN, NOT JEWS THAT receives HIS SABBATH, The Sabbath was before there was JEWS, JESUS says that the Sabbath was for MAN , Again man and not JEWS.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[bud62]

Lots of contradictions in your statement.

If God doesn't change and neither will His Laws then what happened to sacrificing animals?

Weren't those "Jots and Tittles" of the Law?


If they were right then how come they are not right now?

Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

If some of the jots and tittles have passed then what does that say for the rest of the jots and tittles???

That was a shadow And was not even in the ARK of GOD it was just in the side and not inside the ARK., AND not part of HIS ten commandments LAWS, That is in the ARK in HEAVEN today that JOHN saw in REVELATION, BELIEVE ME WE ARE GOING TO FACE THESE TEN COMMANDMENTS LAWS IN JUDGEMENT,

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

The SABBATH GO's BACK TO creation, Not to MOSES Hand writings, Which was a shadow, But the SABBATH is HOLY unto the LORD, And We will even KEEP it in the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH,ISAIAH 66:22-23, I HOPE GOD straighten you out ON walking on HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY, GOD made it HOLY and it is STILL HOLY, AND THERES IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MAKE IT UNHOLY, BUT FOR yourself, GOD blessed it and it will remain BLESSED, PRAISE GOD FOR HIS SABBATH DAY. Isaiah 56:2 BLESSED IS THE MAN, NOT JEWS THAT receives HIS SABBATH, The Sabbath was before there was JEWS, JESUS says that the Sabbath was for MAN , Again man and not JEWS.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

Like I said, you are quoting verses out of context.

For instance, the same OT verses you are quoting refer to the Levitical priesthood AND the festivals AND the New Moons....yet SDAs believe they are no longer applicable.

And, there is no record of many man keeping the Sabbath prior to the liberation of Israel from Egypt.

As an ex-Sabbathkeeper, I used the same verses to prove the same points as you, except I didn't ignore the annual festivals that are mentioned in the SAME CONTEXT.

I did, however, ignore the New Moons, which was a logical error.

I would recommend reading the entire Bible, carefully, paying attention to CONTEXT, and not just proof-texting by quoting a few Scriptures here and there, ignoring the Scriptures around it.

This is what all the cults do..they just selectively quote verses without acknowledging the context of them. That's not the way the Bible was put together.

And, I would also mention that SDA theology cannot be correct, because they deny that Jesus entered the Holy of Holies until AD 1844. Hebrews proves otherwise. The "Sanctuary Doctrine" that they teach is false.

SDAs need to read a book like Temple and Tabernacle by J. Daniel Hays to learn what the real meaning of the Temple and Tabernacle was. They have an elaborate, false theology concerning the Temple and Tabernacle.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

That was a shadow And was not even in the ARK of GOD it was just in the side and not inside the ARK., AND not part of HIS ten commandments LAWS, That is in the ARK in HEAVEN today that JOHN saw in REVELATION, BELIEVE ME WE ARE GOING TO FACE THESE TEN COMMANDMENTS LAWS IN JUDGEMENT,

You aren't consistent with that theology, because the SDAs would claim that the unclean meat laws still apply, even though they weren't mentioned in the Ten Commandments.

But, here is what is being claimed essentially by SDAs:

The Ten Commandments were written in stone, indicating permanence.
The Book of the Covenant, on the side of the Ark, was written in paper, therefore it is not permanent.

However, they will not refer you to 2 Cor 3 when they make such claims.

I would suggest that folks read Heb 7-8 and 2 Cor 3. Pay attention to the temporary nature of the laws written on STONE. And, how Paul juxtaposes the STONE with the FLESH of believers' hearts.

And, the reason the laws were written in stone is because of Israel's hard heart. The substance they were written on reflected the heart. In the New Covenant, God writes his laws on the heart of the believer, not stony hearts but hearts of flesh that want to obey and serve God.

Nor are they consistent, as SDAs will claim that the clean meat laws are still valid, and those were recorded in the Book of the Covenant. They even go so far as to declare their dietary regulations as the "health gospel".

First, initiates into SDA theology are convinced about the Sabbath. Then, they are convinced of the health gospel. It is very much like Colossians 2 and the approach of the heretics being addressed there.

Except SDAs go far beyond clean meat laws. They require vegetarianism, if you are to be one of the truly spiritual. They believe that eating meat, spices, hot cereals, etcetera, cause the sexual urges to be excited, which leads to masturbation, sexual immorality and nymphomania.

Again, they cannot deal with Colossians 2:16-17 either, which lumps festivals, New Moons, and weekly Sabbaths together and applies them to the ceremonial aspects of the Law. Compare to Hebrews 10:1-4 and Hebrews 9:9-11.

 

[Dave-L]

The SABBATH GO's BACK TO creation, Not to MOSES Hand writings, Which was a shadow, But the SABBATH is HOLY unto the LORD, And We will even KEEP it in the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH,ISAIAH 66:22-23, I HOPE GOD straighten you out ON walking on HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY, GOD made it HOLY and it is STILL HOLY, AND THERES IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MAKE IT UNHOLY, BUT FOR yourself, GOD blessed it and it will remain BLESSED, PRAISE GOD FOR HIS SABBATH DAY. Isaiah 56:2 BLESSED IS THE MAN, NOT JEWS THAT receives HIS SABBATH, The Sabbath was before there was JEWS, JESUS says that the Sabbath was for MAN , Again man and not JEWS.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

No Ten Commandments before sinai

““The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Mount Sinai. The LORD did not make this covenant with our ancestors, but with all of us who are alive today.” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)

 

[bud62]

That was a shadow And was not even in the ARK of GOD it was just in the side and not inside the ARK., AND not part of HIS ten commandments LAWS, That is in the ARK in HEAVEN today that JOHN saw in REVELATION, BELIEVE ME WE ARE GOING TO FACE THESE TEN COMMANDMENTS LAWS IN JUDGEMENT,

Where do you find the killing of Animals in GOD TEN commandments LAW, Therses where LAWS that was add because they where braking HIS Ten commandments laws, And they where added till JESUS came, AND died on the CVROSS, GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

That was a shadow And was not even in the ARK of GOD it was just in the side and not inside the ARK., AND not part of HIS ten commandments LAWS, That is in the ARK in HEAVEN today that JOHN saw in REVELATION, BELIEVE ME WE ARE GOING TO FACE THESE TEN COMMANDMENTS LAWS IN JUDGEMENT,

You aren't really addressing his question.

Jesus used the phrase "Law and the Prophets" in Matthew 5:17-19.

If you are using these verses to prove the Sabbath still applies, then you must answer the question....why do you think they still apply, if part of the teachings of the Law and the Prophets is done away with?

We know animal sacrifices are done away with, as well as the Levitical priesthood. These were part of the "Law and the Prophets", which refers to the Torah and the Prophets, two major divisions of the Old Testament.

And Grandpa is right..it is an inconsistency.

The truth is that Christ's atonement on the Cross included the abolition of the Mosaic Law.

Your claim is that the Sabbath is not part of this...however, Colossians 2:16-17 says otherwise.

 

[mailmandan]

2 Corinthians 3:6 - who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in

 

[Dave-L]

Where do you find the killing of Animals in GOD TEN commandments LAW, Therses where LAWS that was add because they where braking HIS Ten commandments laws, And they where added till JESUS came, AND died on the CVROSS, GOD bless as HE sees fit

Saved people do not need to be told not to steal. We don't want to steal because of the New Birth. The Ten Commandments were for really bad people who could not ACT good unless threatened with death and sickness.

 

[bud62]

You aren't really addressing his question.

Jesus used the phrase "Law and the Prophets" in Matthew 5:17-19.

If you are using these verses to prove the Sabbath still applies, then you must answer the question....why do you think they still apply, if part of the teachings of the Law and the Prophets is done away with?

We know animal sacrifices are done away with, as well as the Levitical priesthood. These were part of the "Law and the Prophets", which refers to the Torah and the Prophets, two major divisions of the Old Testament.

And Grandpa is right..it is an inconsistency.

The truth is that Christ's atonement on the Cross included the abolition of the Mosaic Law.

Your claim is that the Sabbath is not part of this...however, Colossians 2:16-17 says otherwise.

None of GODs LAWS ARE done away with, ONLY the ones that was in Moses hand writings that was against US, like COLOSSIANS 2:14 TELLS US, not Gods ten COMMANDMENT LAWS, GOD bless as HE sees fit

 

[bud62]

None of GODs LAWS ARE done away with, ONLY the ones that was in Moses hand writings that was against US, like COLOSSIANS 2:14 TELLS US, not Gods ten COMMANDMENT LAWS, GOD bless as HE sees fit

The Sabbath GO's back to creation where it was blessed and made HOLY , BEFORE Moses was ever born or before there was a JEW, JESUS said the Sabbath was for MAN , Which means us to, WHERE in the BIBLE DOSE GOD do away with the Sabbath, I know HE don't. But the BIBLE dose tell you that Satan will try to change times and LAWS in Daniel 7:25, NOW what Law of GODs HAS any thing to do with time,
THE Sabbath, IS the only law of GOD that's got to do with any thing, that got to do with time, Think about it. Satan dose not want you to keep GODs Sabbath HOLY like GOD tells you to. GOD bless as HE sees fit.

 

[Dave-L]

The Sabbath GO's back to creation where it was blessed and made HOLY , BEFORE Moses was ever born or before there was a JEW, JESUS said the Sabbath was for MAN , Which means us to, WHERE in the BIBLE DOSE GOD do away with the Sabbath, I know HE don't. But the BIBLE dose tell you that Satan will try to change times and LAWS in Daniel 7:25, NOW what Law of GODs HAS any thing to do with time,
THE Sabbath, IS the only law of GOD that's got to do with any thing, that got to do with time, Think about it. Satan dose not want you to keep GODs Sabbath HOLY like GOD tells you to. GOD bless as HE sees fit.

It did not become law until Sinai. And is not found in the New Covenant.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

None of GODs LAWS ARE done away with, ONLY the ones that was in Moses hand writings that was against US, like COLOSSIANS 2:14 TELLS US, not Gods ten COMMANDMENT LAWS, GOD bless as HE sees fit

Colossians 2:14 is talking about a recording of the sins of the believers, not the "Book of the Covenant".

By the way, you can't consistently maintain this, as the "Book of the Covenant" included the Sabbath, the Festivals, and the New Moons. All are mentioned after the Ten Commandments are given.

In addition, incest and other heinous crimes are also explained in the Book of the Covenant

And, you would claim the clean meat laws are still applicable, unless you are one of the vegetarian SDAs which is totally unbiblical and reflects asceticism. Even Jesus ate meat. He ate the Passover every year and he ate fish.

And he drank wine. He wouldn't have been a good SDA in your view.


Colossians 2:14 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
(ESV)

Colossians 2:14 2:14 the charge of our legal indebtedness. Paul uses the metaphor of a legal bond or certificate of debt (an IOU) in which humans promise to obey what they know to be God’s will (cf. Rom 1:32). It becomes our death warrant when we fail to obey (cf. Rom 3:23) because we cannot possibly repay the debt. But God blotted out the list of debts and destroyed all the incriminating evidence against us when Christ was nailed on the cross in our place. Christ took away the burden of our guilt. Believers receive the verdict of his righteousness. (NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

 

[bud62]

Colossians 2:14 is talking about a recording of the sins of the believers, not the "Book of the Covenant".

By the way, you can't consistently maintain this, as the "Book of the Covenant" included the Sabbath, the Festivals, and the New Moons. All are mentioned after the Ten Commandments are given.

In addition, incest and other heinous crimes are also explained in the Book of the Covenant

And, you would claim the clean meat laws are still applicable, unless you are one of the vegetarian SDAs which is totally unbiblical and reflects asceticism. Even Jesus ate meat. He ate the Passover every year and he ate fish.

And he drank wine. He wouldn't have been a good SDA in your view.


Colossians 2:14 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
(ESV)

Colossians 2:14 2:14 the charge of our legal indebtedness. Paul uses the metaphor of a legal bond or certificate of debt (an IOU) in which humans promise to obey what they know to be God’s will (cf. Rom 1:32). It becomes our death warrant when we fail to obey (cf. Rom 3:23) because we cannot possibly repay the debt. But God blotted out the list of debts and destroyed all the incriminating evidence against us when Christ was nailed on the cross in our place. Christ took away the burden of our guilt. Believers receive the verdict of his righteousness. (NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

What do you mean that you can not pay the DEBT, GOD says YOU can pay it to, YOU just can't PAY IT AND live.
the WAGES OF SIN IS death, so YOU CAN pay THE debt, SO you just WOULD, HAFT to die to pay it, SO yes WE can pay it, But GOD wanted us to LIVE, SO HE paid it for us if we would repent, and Quit sinning. TO turn away from sin, 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning, For this purpose the Son of GOD was manifested, that HE might destroy the works of the devil. As long as we continue in sin, JESUS HAS not destroyed the sin that is in us, By repenting and turning away from our sins, JESUS destroys the sin that is in us, through repentance. And HIS death, You are trying to say that we don't haft to KEEP the commandments, THEN YOU DON'T have any thing to REPENT OF ,BECAUSE WITHOUT the COMMANDMENTS YOU CAN NOT SIN AGAINST GOD. And if there is no more Commandments, Then JESUS has more, REASON TO punish the lost ether, FOR that is what makes them lost. THE wages of their sins. IS death, NO commandments, NO sins, Sins remain BECAUSE the COMMANDMENTS still REMAIN,
1 peter 4:18 AND If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear???????
GOD bless as HE sees fit
GOD bless as he sees fit

 

[bud62]

What do you mean that you can not pay the DEBT, GOD says YOU can pay it to, YOU just can't PAY IT AND live.
the WAGES OF SIN IS death, so YOU CAN pay THE debt, SO you just WOULD, HAFT to die to pay it, SO yes WE can pay it, But GOD wanted us to LIVE, SO HE paid it for us if we would repent, and Quit sinning. TO turn away from sin, 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning, For this purpose the Son of GOD was manifested, that HE might destroy the works of the devil. As long as we continue in sin, JESUS HAS not destroyed the sin that is in us, By repenting and turning away from our sins, JESUS destroys the sin that is in us, through repentance. And HIS death, You are trying to say that we don't haft to KEEP the commandments, THEN YOU DON'T have any thing to REPENT OF ,BECAUSE WITHOUT the COMMANDMENTS YOU CAN NOT SIN AGAINST GOD. And if there is no more Commandments, Then JESUS has more, REASON TO punish the lost ether, FOR that is what makes them lost. THE wages of their sins. IS death, NO commandments, NO sins, Sins remain BECAUSE the COMMANDMENTS still REMAIN,
1 peter 4:18 AND If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear???????
GOD bless as HE sees fit
GOD bless as he sees fit

With a little study we can see the commandments go all the way back to the creation, There where sins THAT MEANS THAT THE LAWS WAS THERE ALSO. Abraham KEPT GODs LAWS, GOD told Cain THAT sin lieth at the DOOR.THE whole was full of sins, THAT is why GOD destroyed the OLD world, BECAUSE it was FULL of sins, SO there was LAWS,

 

[JesusLives]

I didn't vote due because I was in a rehabilitation center following a severe auto accident.

My doctrinal position is Reformed Baptist. I attend a church that is not affiliated with any denomination. The pastor is Reformed Baptist. I attended a church that was EFCA for a long time before that, and I have no general problem with their doctrines.

Have you answered me regarding your affiliation?

And, if you care about morality, and are Seventh Day Adventist, why? My position would be that they are immoral due to their stance on abortion. I can guarantee you I didn't vote for Ben Carson, for the same reason I didn't vote for Mitt Romney; due to cultic affiliations. I would vote for a Roman Catholic before Carson, because at least they know abortion is murder.

Well..actually Carson knows abortion is murder. He has addressed the fact pubicly that he does not agree with the SDA organization on that. I still wouldn't vote for him. Never can tell when some modern SDA might start claiming he is their new prophet.

My parents really didn't go to church that I remember. My Aunt took me to SDA church with her kids so that is what I know.

Ellen White did not claim to be a prophet.

The stance of the SDA church is not in favor of abortion just read a legal document stating such, however, they realize that members may be confronted with a hard choice and do not ostracise or cut them off from being a church member if they may have had an abortion.

I can't answer for what any hospital no matter affiliation does at the facility and to hear you go on about it we are all guilty if it is done in a hospital affiliated with the church.

I just find it annoying when anyone goes on about anything in an attack mode with an I know all about them mentallity when they also claim they haven't read anything by the person or church they are attacking... Now if you told me you were a long time member and changed your direction but had actually studied and read and really know about what you are talking about then I probably would not be in a defense stance. But I feel that you are unfairly attacking a denomination that you really know little about on a personal level.

God is pro choice and what I mean by that is that He give us free choice to make decisions good or bad but has given us guidelines in the form of the 10 commandments to go by on what He would like for us to choose. God does not force us to do what He would like for us to choose to do.

If you feel that Ellen is a false prophet then prove and make sure you know that she is a false prophet again I would suggest you read The Desire of Ages which is about Jesus and then tell me that a woman who never claimed to be a prophet is a false prophet. But ya won't do it even though you would benefit reading about the life of Jesus.

Again I don't usually defend Ellen as personally the Bible is the Book we need to apply to our lives. Some of the quotes you are putting out are books that were compiled and not written from first to last word by Ellen they were articles she had written that someone put together like articles and made a book.

Books like Desire of Ages, Patriarchs and Prophets are ones she wrote as a book and not compiled by someone in the foundation of her writings.