Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

[Dino246]

The Faith of Christ comes by hearing parables as it is written (prophecy) The same Faith come from hearing tongues. (prophecy) as it is written (prophecy)

That isn't what Scripture says. Rather, Scripture says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Parables aren't mentioned in that verse.

Who said anything about irrelevant gifts other than what you say about parables in a attempt to separate it from the word of God as prophecy ?

I'm not making any attempt to separate anything. I am pointing out that the word of God declares the gifts to be distinct from each other. You keep dragging other topics into the discussion.

In the same way ..can't separate tongues which is prophecy from tongues, or tongues from parables . Just as you cannot separate parables for prophecy .

Confusion upon confusion! None of what you've written here is stated in Scripture.

Calling the gospel which is prophecy tongues is what the bible declares.

Then quote the verse.

With the gospel the new tongues from faith the unseen to the same unseen faith that can drive out demons.

The gospel is not "new tongues". You are simply wrong on this matter.

If a person is looking for a self edification gift the mirror works fine for some or take a selfie .

Mocking what you don't understand is not wise.

If it is not tongues the gospel of truth that cast out demons then what?

The word of God spoken in faith.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Acts 22:16 teaches not what washes away sin BUT WHEN sins are washed away.

the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin....and that happens BEFORE a person is filled with the Holy Spirit

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2

further, Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit when Ananias prayed for him BEFORE he was baptized

17So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 9

THEN, AFTER he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he was baptized

18 At once something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he got up and was baptized. 19 And after taking some food, he regained his strength.

it is obvious Paul, Ananias and the Holy Spirit did not have a copy of your list

 

[CS1]

Your non-response speaks volumes.

so the Holy Spirit indwells a person who has not accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior through water baptism?


CS1 said:
You do not see in the Book of Acts how the Holy Spirit fell on those who were not water baptized in the house Cornelious?

My response: I said water baptism is a required component of salvation. After the Gentiles were filled with the Holy Ghost Peter commanded they be water baptized in Jesus' name as well.

were they saved before the water baptism and the Holy Spirit Filling them? Or does the Holy Spirit make a habit of filling non-believers ?

 

[Wansvic]

so the Holy Spirit indwells a person who has not accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior through water baptism?


CS1 said:
You do not see in the Book of Acts how the Holy Spirit fell on those who were not water baptized in the house Cornelious?

My response: I said water baptism is a required component of salvation. After the Gentiles were filled with the Holy Ghost Peter commanded they be water baptized in Jesus' name as well.

were they saved before the water baptism and the Holy Spirit Filling them? Or does the Holy Spirit make a habit of filling non-believers ?

Twisting what I am sharing does not help your case. As I have stated over and over the Word indicates that belief, repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Ghost are requirements for all of mankind. This is by God's design. Everyone has to make a choice. They can refuse it or obey it. It's entirely up to the individual.

 

[Wansvic]

here is an interesting revelation concerning what wansvic actually believes

it is taken from her op 344, dated July 27/19, the tabernacle in the wilderness

1. Acceptance of Jesus sacrifice and repentance

2. Water Baptism (receive the priestly garments)

3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost

4. Priestly office secured

5. Blood of Jesus sacrifice is applied

it is apparent that she seems to believe that there is no cleansing from sin until 4 other things have been observed, none of which are actually listed in scripture as prerequisites for the blood of Christ to cleanse us from all sin

if you actually do accept Jesus as per #1, it is right then and there that His blood is applied to your 'sin record'

wansvic has also stated that you are not saved if you do not speak in tongues and ditto water immersion aka baptism

Redemption through His Blood
11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come,d He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by hands and is not of this creation. 12He did not enter by the blood of goats and calves, but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, thus securing eternal redemption.
13For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that their bodies are clean, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself unblemished to God, purify our consciences from works of death, so that we may serve the living God!


the above passage from Hebrews 9 clears any misunderstanding regarding the blood of Christ and does away with the oneness misapplication of the OT cleansing ritual as a comparison to immersion in water (baptism)

it is ONLY the blood of Christ that has obtained forgiveness for sin from God

wansvic has also stated (I don't know about this thread) in times past that unless you are baptized in Jesus name ONLY, you had better get it done again because you are not actually saved

The list provided showed a clear parallel to the foreshadow in the biblical record. When attempting to discredit me I would suggest you give a complete picture of what I actually pointed out:

"Many believe that the blood is applied immediately when one accepts Jesus as their personal savior. However, take the time to read the twenty-ninth chapter of Exodus. What you will find is a sequence of events that parallel the New Testament salvation components.

1. Candidate accepts priestly calling.

2. Candidates are washed and adorned with holy garments. Ex 29:4

3. Oil is poured over the head of the priest. Ex 29:7

4. The priestly office is secured. Ex 29:9

5. The blood is applied after obedience to God’s commands above. Ex 29:20

After stating how the priestly office is secured, the Word instructs us about our Christian walk and how to honor God with various types of offerings.

The New Testament parallel is as follows:

1. Acceptance of Jesus sacrifice and repentance

2. Water Baptism (receive the priestly garments)

3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost

4. Priestly office secured

5. Blood of Jesus sacrifice is applied"

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The list provided showed a clear parallel to the foreshadow in the biblical record. When attempting to discredit me I would suggest you give a complete picture of what I actually pointed out:

"Many believe that the blood is applied immediately when one accepts Jesus as their personal savior. However, take the time to read the twenty-ninth chapter of Exodus. What you will find is a sequence of events that parallel the New Testament salvation components.

1. Candidate accepts priestly calling.

2. Candidates are washed and adorned with holy garments. Ex 29:4

3. Oil is poured over the head of the priest. Ex 29:7

4. The priestly office is secured. Ex 29:9

5. The blood is applied after obedience to God’s commands above. Ex 29:20

After stating how the priestly office is secured, the Word instructs us about our Christian walk and how to honor God with various types of offerings.

The New Testament parallel is as follows:

1. Acceptance of Jesus sacrifice and repentance

2. Water Baptism (receive the priestly garments)

3. Infilling of the Holy Ghost

4. Priestly office secured

5. Blood of Jesus sacrifice is applied"

you cannot let go of a man made doctrine to follow what scripture actually states

frankly you are full of hot air

Paul clearly received the Holy Spirit after his conversion by Christ Himself and BEFORE...BEFORE....he was baptized

you reference the OT for your little story but you forget Jesus is our ONLY High Priest now and He has entered the holy of holies by His own blood

it says an awful lot about you that you refuse to admit that scripture does not reference your list and people are saved then receive the Holy Spirit and usually are baptized

sometimes it is the other way round

you are not holding on to Christ. you are holding on to your oneness or whatever it is, heretical doctrine

wake up. you are distorting scripture and keeping people from the truth...you are not teaching it.....

I wonder how many people you have damaged with your fake doctrine

 

[Wansvic]

the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin....and that happens BEFORE a person is filled with the Holy Spirit

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2

further, Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit when Ananias prayed for him BEFORE he was baptized

17So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Acts 9

THEN, AFTER he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he was baptized

18 At once something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight. Then he got up and was baptized. 19 And after taking some food, he regained his strength.

it is obvious Paul, Ananias and the Holy Spirit did not have a copy of your list

God designed the NT salvation plan, mankind did not choose the method of their salvation. Through faith and obedience to GOD's plan one is made acceptable. See Acts 2:38, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6, 22:10-16. Each of these records depict complete obedience to all of the required components; belief, repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Everyone has to make their own choice. I choose to accept everything stated and intend to continue sharing that truth with others.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

"Many believe that the blood is applied immediately when one accepts Jesus as their personal savior. However, take the time to read the twenty-ninth chapter of Exodus. What you will find is a sequence of events that parallel the New Testament salvation components.

reading that does not seem to have done you any good from what can be seen of your beliefs

I am not a Jew nor do I have Moses as my mediator

I am a Christian and I follow Christ and He is my mediator

the OT was a SHADOW of what was to come

you are really spouting some loopy things...did Jesus have to be consecrated to God with animal sacrifice so His sin could be forgiven?

your doctrine does not hold up, but your ability to deny the truth is working fine

 

[7seasrekeyed]

God designed the NT salvation plan, mankind did not choose the method of their salvation. Through faith and obedience to GOD's plan one is made acceptable. See Acts 2:38, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6, 22:10-16. Each of these records depict complete obedience to all of the required components; belief, repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Everyone has to make their own choice. I choose to accept everything stated and intend to continue sharing that truth with others.

actually, the so called salvation plan you are presenting was never designed by God

it was designed and is designed to entrap people, ensnare people and deceive them

when I read your posts I know it is working

the devil comes as an angel of light but his doctrines do not set people free and they do not deliver truth

you actually do not have a choice until you repent of your false doctrine

 

[Wansvic]

you cannot let go of a man made doctrine to follow what scripture actually states

frankly you are full of hot air

Paul clearly received the Holy Spirit after his conversion by Christ Himself and BEFORE...BEFORE....he was baptized

you reference the OT for your little story but you forget Jesus is our ONLY High Priest now and He has entered the holy of holies by His own blood

it says an awful lot about you that you refuse to admit that scripture does not reference your list and people are saved then receive the Holy Spirit and usually are baptized

sometimes it is the other way round

you are not holding on to Christ. you are holding on to your oneness or whatever it is, heretical doctrine

wake up. you are distorting scripture and keeping people from the truth...you are not teaching it.....

I wonder how many people you have damaged with your fake doctrine

As seen numerous times in scripture, the sequence in which one obeys the instructions given at Pentecost is of no significance. What is important is that all are complied with. People were COMMANDED to get water baptized in Jesus' name after receiving God's Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38, 10:44-48) If water baptism in Jesus' name was not a requirement there would have been no need to command it be done after one had received the Spirit. I personally don't see how this is so hard to comprehend.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

As seen numerous times in scripture, the sequence in which one obeys the instructions given at Pentecost is of no significance. What is important is that all are complied with. People were COMMANDED to get water baptized in Jesus' name after receiving God's Holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38, 10:44-48) If water baptism in Jesus' name was not a requirement there would have been no need to command it be done after one had received the Spirit. I personally don't see how this is so hard to comprehend.

quite fluffing the pillow. it's still old and stinky

I want to know why you refuse to acknowledge Paul received the Holy Spirit BEFORE baptism?

you are the one floating the list and now you seem to be backtracking

you keep rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic but catastrophe is straight ahead

you have absolutely NO credibility unless or until you answer why Paul, Ananias and apparently the very Spirit of God somehow did not get your note and went ahead without you

well? are you going to 'man up' or continue trying to deflect and quote long since complete and finished works from the OT?

do you have that much honesty in you?

and for the record, I never said anything against baptism so that is a non sequitur here

but you do seem to pull that one out whenever an explanation is called for from you

 

[Wansvic]

you reference the OT for your little story but you forget Jesus is our ONLY High Priest now and He has entered the holy of holies by His own blood

Foreshadows of things to come can be seen throughout the Old Testament.

Do you realize that both Aaron the High Priest, and HIS SONS had to comply with the instructions given in Exodus 29 in order to become ordained priests?

Are we not considered God's "sons?"

Ex 29:4-9

And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

5 And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:

6 And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.

7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

8 And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.

9 And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.

Ex 29:20-21

“Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.

21 And thou shalt take of the blood that is upon the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon the garments of his sons with him: and he shall be hallowed, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.


The Apostle Peter stated that we are part of a royal priesthood:

1 Peter 2[:9] says, "You are a royal priesthood and a priestly kingdom," and Revelation [5:10], "Through your blood you have made us into priests and kings."

 

[CS1]

Twisting what I am sharing does not help your case. As I have stated over and over the Word indicates that belief, repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Ghost are requirements for all of mankind. This is by God's design. Everyone has to make a choice. They can refuse it or obey it. It's entirely up to the individual.

and ignoring what I actually said and asked is not being honest.

What you have not stated is IF you have been baptized in the name of Father Son and Holy Spirit and not in the name of Jesus is one's baptism null and void? Yes or NO. That all I need to know if you believe that. Simple right?

 

[CS1]

Twisting what I am sharing does not help your case. As I have stated over and over the Word indicates that belief, repentance, water baptism in Jesus' name, and receiving the Holy Ghost are requirements for all of mankind. This is by God's design. Everyone has to make a choice. They can refuse it or obey it. It's entirely up to the individual.

your Doctrine was not followed in the Book of Acts. As It is shown.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Foreshadows of things to come can be seen throughout the Old Testament.

Do you realize that both Aaron the High Priest, and HIS SONS had to comply with the instructions given in Exodus 29 in order to become ordained priests?

Are we not considered God's "sons?"

Ex 29:4-9

And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.

5 And thou shalt take the garments, and put upon Aaron the coat, and the robe of the ephod, and the ephod, and the breastplate, and gird him with the curious girdle of the ephod:

6 And thou shalt put the mitre upon his head, and put the holy crown upon the mitre.

7 Then shalt thou take the anointing oil, and pour it upon his head, and anoint him.

8 And thou shalt bring his sons, and put coats upon them.

9 And thou shalt gird them with girdles, Aaron and his sons, and put the bonnets on them: and the priest's office shall be theirs for a perpetual statute: and thou shalt consecrate Aaron and his sons.

Ex 29:20-21

“Then shalt thou kill the ram, and take of his blood, and put it upon the tip of the right ear of Aaron, and upon the tip of the right ear of his sons, and upon the thumb of their right hand, and upon the great toe of their right foot, and sprinkle the blood upon the altar round about.

21 And thou shalt take of the blood that is upon the altar, and of the anointing oil, and sprinkle it upon Aaron, and upon his garments, and upon his sons, and upon the garments of his sons with him: and he shall be hallowed, and his garments, and his sons, and his sons' garments with him.


The Apostle Peter stated that we are part of a royal priesthood:

1 Peter 2[:9] says, "You are a royal priesthood and a priestly kingdom," and Revelation [5:10], "Through your blood you have made us into priests and kings."

hey even the demons can quote scripture...I'm not calling you demonic so don't go there

what I am saying, is that you can quote the entire Bible and you will still be wrong

where is the response to how Paul did not follow your little list?

anything else is word salad with old dressing

I have studied the OT at some length and the systems of sacrifice etc and have even taught on it...adult class...since people need to understand the relevance to the NT, but it is over and God now has a permanent High Priest and He is ours who believe

you put more emphasis on water than on the blood of Christ...a very very dangerous thing to do and yet cultish in your fervor

I have studied the NT with regards to our standing in Christ and without trying to brag or sound rude, you cannot combine the 2 as you have...you are way off in left field...in fact the entire game has moved on and you are still trying to catch the ball

btw, Jesus wore next to nothing and quite possibly nothing, when He died. no robes or priestly garments. and He did not wear any sort of costume when He appeared on the beach when the 11 were fishing

you try to make it seem you are knowledgeable by using scripture but you are in conflict with scripture




HOW ABOUT EXPLAINING WHY PAUL DID NOT USE THE LIST YOU SAY IS BIBLICAL?

the rest is just smoke and you have been doing that since you joined this forum

 

[7seasrekeyed]

are you getting angry at your inability to refute the actual biblical account regarding Paul?

otherwise, why start up with your little x's LOL!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

from the tabernacle thread last year in which wansvic outlined some of her beliefs regarding water regeneration


Post 242
As I mentioned to bluto, I think the thing that people don't realize is that it was God's choice to remit sin based on the obedient faith demonstrated in one submitting to water baptism.

Water baptism was not some idea people came up with to try and save themselves. Water baptism was created by God.

so she believes water cleanses from sin..aka water regeneration and a doctrine that does not exist in scripture

I responded some posts after with this: Post254
from the Old Testament:

“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” (Leviticus 17:11)

“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7)

redemption how? by His BLOOD. no bath or shower

“But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” (Ephesians 2:13)

how have we been brought to the throne of grace? by a water sprinkler? by a water truck? by the Jordan River?
NO. by the BLOOD of Christ


“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.” (Revelation 12:11)

what is the devil overcome by? a water hose? NO, THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB (of God)

and since the oneness crowd likes to quote Peter so much, this is what Peter says about blood and NO baptism:

“Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” (1 Peter 1:18-19)

see that? no water at all. Peter states emphatically that the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST alone has redeemed us.

what was used in the Passover in Egypt? did they sprinkle water on their door posts or blood?


this is very very serious. claiming that ANYTHING but the blood of Christ washes away sin is demonic. it is as serious as saying there are many ways to be saved.

so pardon my outburst but folks need to get serious and recognize what is really going on here

this is more than simply a disagreement about a non-salvic doctrine in scripture...this is the CORRUPTION of the gospel and as such,
is following a spirit of error or, what the Bible actually calls a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS

serious as life and death


from the Old Testament:

“For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.” (Leviticus 17:11)

“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7)

redemption how? by His BLOOD. no bath or shower

“But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.” (Ephesians 2:13)

how have we been brought to the throne of grace? by a water sprinkler? by a water truck? by the Jordan River?
NO. by the BLOOD of Christ


“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.” (Revelation 12:11)

what is the devil overcome by? a water hose? NO, THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB (of God)

and since the oneness crowd likes to quote Peter so much, this is what Peter says about blood and NO baptism:

“Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.” (1 Peter 1:18-19)

see that? no water at all. Peter states emphatically that the PRECIOUS BLOOD OF CHRIST alone has redeemed us.

what was used in the Passover in Egypt? did they sprinkle water on their door posts or blood?


this is very very serious. claiming that ANYTHING but the blood of Christ washes away sin is demonic. it is as serious as saying there are many ways to be saved.

so pardon my outburst but folks need to get serious and recognize what is really going on here

this is more than simply a disagreement about a non-salvic doctrine in scripture...this is the CORRUPTION of the gospel and as such,
is following a spirit of error or, what the Bible actually calls a DOCTRINE OF DEMONS

serious as life and death

from the old to the new testament, it is always and only blood that makes atonement for sin

 

[Wansvic]

quite fluffing the pillow. it's still old and stinky

I want to know why you refuse to acknowledge Paul received the Holy Spirit BEFORE baptism?

you are the one floating the list and now you seem to be backtracking

you keep rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic but catastrophe is straight ahead

you have absolutely NO credibility unless or until you answer why Paul, Ananias and apparently the very Spirit of God somehow did not get your note and went ahead without you

well? are you going to 'man up' or continue trying to deflect and quote long since complete and finished works from the OT?

do you have that much honesty in you?

and for the record, I never said anything against baptism so that is a non sequitur here

but you do seem to pull that one out whenever an explanation is called for from you

I did not refuse to acknowledge Paul received the Holy Spirit before baptism. If you had read my comment that you replied to, you would have seen that I stated that receiving the Holy Spirit before water baptism or after is not significant.

Ananias is the one who instructed Paul to get water baptized after he had already received the Holy Ghost. This is consistent with the point that the other scriptures reference, obedience to one component does not cancel out the need for the other. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6, 22:10-16.

Acts 22:16:
"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I did not refuse to acknowledge Paul received the Holy Spirit before baptism. If you had read my comment that you replied to, you would have seen that I stated that receiving the Holy Spirit before water baptism or after is not significant.

Ananias is the one who instructed Paul to get water baptized after he had already received the Holy Ghost. This is consistent with the point that the other scriptures reference, obedience to one component does not cancel out the need for the other. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:2-6, 22:10-16.

Acts 22:16:
"And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."

I did read it

and I am asking how that works with the list YOU have offered in lieu of the fact that Paul's conversion/speaking in tongues/baptism does not follow that list when you have consistently said that list is the order with the blood of Christ applied as #5

according to your list, God gives the Holy Spirit to those who have not yet had their sins forgiven

don't talk to me about Ananias when I am the one who pointed the whole thing out LOL!

of course I know the answer why you do not reply...it does not fit with your narrative

can you be honest? just admit it and make room for the fact you are in error...might point you in the right direction

 

[7seasrekeyed]

well just keep fudging and trying to combine the old and new testaments into one big testament

I have other things to do but I might check on your latest dodge and flip later