The name above every name!!!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#21
From wikipedia.
The name Jesus is derived from the Hebrew name Yeshua, which is based on the Semitic root y-š-ʕ (Hebrew: ישע‎), meaning "to deliver; to rescue."[3][4][5] Yeshua, and its longer form, Yehoshua, were both in common use by Jews during the Second Temple period and many Jewish religious figures bear the name, notably Jesus in the New Testament, and Joshua in the Hebrew Bible.[2][1]
There have been various proposals as to how the literal etymological meaning of the name should be translated, including Yahweh saves, (is) salvation, (is) a saving-cry, (is) a cry-for-saving, (is) a cry-for-help, (is) my help.[6][7][8][9][10]
This early biblical Hebrew name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ Yehoshuaʿ underwent a shortening into later biblical יֵשׁוּעַ Yeshua`, as found in the Hebrew text of verses Ezra 2:2, 2:6, 2:36, 2:40, 3:2, 3:8, 3:9, 3:10, 3:18, 4:3, 8:33; Nehemiah 3:19, 7:7, 7:11, 7:39, 7:43, 8:7, 8:17, 9:4, 9:5, 11:26, 12:1, 12:7, 12:8, 12:10, 12:24, 12:26; 1 Chronicles 24:11; and 2 Chronicles 31:15 – as well as in Biblical Aramaic at verse Ezra 5:2. These Bible verses refer to ten individuals (in Nehemiah 8:17, the name refers to Joshua son of Nun).
This historical change may have been due to a phonological shift whereby guttural phonemes weakened, including [h].[11] Usually, the traditional theophoric element Yahu יהו was shortened at the beginning of a name to יו Yo-, and at the end to יה -yah. In the contraction of Yehoshua` to Yeshua`, the vowel is instead fronted (perhaps due to the influence of the y in the triliteral root y-š-ʿ). During the post-biblical period the further shortened form Yeshu was adopted by Hebrew speaking Jews to refer to the Christian Jesus, however Yehoshua continued to be used for the other figures called Jesus.[12] However, both the Western and Eastern Syriac Christian traditions use the Aramaic name ܝܫܘܥ (in Hebrew script: ישוע) Yeshuʿ and Yishoʿ, respectively, including the ʿayin.[13]
In both Latin and Greek, the name is declined irregularly:
Latin Greek nominative JēsūsIēsūs (Iēsus)Ἰησοῦςaccusative JēsūmIēsūm (Iēsum)Ἰησοῦνdative JēsūIēsūἸησοῦgenitive vocative ablative

By the time the New Testament was written, the Septuagint had already transliterated ישוע Yeshua` into Koine Greek as closely as possible in the 3rd-century BCE, the result being Ἰησοῦς Iēsous. Since Greek had no equivalent to the Semitic letter ש shin [ʃ], it was replaced with a σ sigma , and a masculine singular ending [-s] was added in the nominative case, in order to allow the name to be inflected for case (nominative, accusative, etc.) in the grammar of the Greek language. The diphthongal [a] vowel of Masoretic Yehoshua` or Yeshua` would not have been present in Hebrew/Aramaic pronunciation during this period, and some scholars believe some dialects dropped the pharyngeal sound of the final letter ע `ayin [ʕ], which in any case had no counterpart in ancient Greek. The Greek writings of Philo of Alexandria[14] and Josephus frequently mention this name. It also occurs in the Greek New Testament at Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8, referring to Joshua son of Nun.
From Greek, Ἰησοῦς Iēsous moved into Latin at least by the time of the Vetus Latina. The morphological jump this time was not as large as previous changes between language families. Ἰησοῦς Iēsous was transliterated to Latin IESVS, where it stood for many centuries. The Latin name has an irregular declension, with a genitive, dative, ablative, and vocative of Jesu, accusative of Jesum, and nominative of Jesus. Minuscule (lower case) letters were developed around 800 and some time later the U was invented to distinguish the vowel sound from the consonantal sound and the J to distinguish the consonant from I. Similarly, Greek minuscules were invented about the same time, prior to that the name was written in capital letters (ΙΗϹΟΥϹ) or abbreviated as (ΙΗϹ) with a line over the top, see also Christogram.
Modern English Jesus derives from Early Middle English Iesu (attested from the 12th century). The name participated in the Great Vowel Shift in late Middle English (15th century). The letter J was first distinguished from 'I' by the Frenchman Pierre Ramus in the 16th century, but did not become common in Modern English until the 17th century, so that early 17th century works such as the first edition of the King James Version of the Bible (1611) continued to print the name with an I.[15]
From the Latin, the English language takes the forms "Jesus" (from the nominative form), and "Jesu" (from the vocative and oblique forms). "Jesus" is the predominantly used form, while "Jesu" lingers in some more archaic texts.
Except that you are forgetting that before there was the Canon that we call the New testament those letters were written by apostles to people.
When Paul wrote letters to the Corinthians and when he wrote letters to the Ephesians and when he wrote letters to the Thessalonians; all Greeks, he wrote those letters in... Greek. Not koine Greek but ancient Greek.
Even though I'll find Wikipedia to be about as authoritative as a Spider-Man comic, your article actually supports what I've been saying.
Anyway I think that you have chosen ignorance and therefore we have nothing left to say goodbye.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#22
I love it when someone comes in and asks a question and it's really only a guise, for them to pontificate on their own personal misled views.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#23
Well scripture has many names written, His disciples called Him Rabbi, Yes His name is a Hebrew name and a name in other languages as well language isn’t a barrier, Jesus isn’t going force people to understand His Hebrew name only rather it is in English or Italian, he name in another language isn’t false it’s just in a another language shouldn't assume another language is going to have the same letters or same spelling that isn’t how different language work, what is Jesus in Chinese or Japanese is it still His name? By excluding other people’s language is excluding them because they speak another language and saying their language is not valid that isn’t proper
If you read the wikipedia.
Even in greek they were trying to translate the phonetic to letters..
Meaning they were trying to translate them as to how it was pronounced.

As such...whatever language translation...it should be translated how it was pronounced.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#24
Except that you are forgetting that before there was the Canon that we call the New testament those letters were written by apostles to people.
When Paul wrote letters to the Corinthians and when he wrote letters to the Ephesians and when he wrote letters to the Thessalonians; all Greeks, he wrote those letters in... Greek. Not koine Greek but ancient Greek.
Even though I'll find Wikipedia to be about as authoritative as a Spider-Man comic, your article actually supports what I've been saying.
Anyway I think that you have chosen ignorance and therefore we have nothing left to say goodbye.
See post no 23
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#25
If you read the wikipedia.
Even in greek they were trying to translate the phonetic to letters..
Meaning they were trying to translate them as to how it was pronounced.

As such...whatever language translation...it should be translated how it was pronounced.
Not all language are capable of translating the pronunciation, probably not many at all can translate a pronounciation because in their language they have a certain way of speaking
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
#26
I love it when someone comes in and asks a question and it's really only a guise, for them to pontificate on their own personal misled views.
This tool thinks Jesus is confined to one translation of His Name. I have no doubt he despises God’s grace.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#27
I love it when someone comes in and asks a question and it's really only a guise, for them to pontificate on their own personal misled views.
Misled...depends on who look at it...for you it mightbe mis leading.
Not all language are capable of translating the pronunciation, probably not many at all can translate a pronounciation because in their language they have a certain way of speaking
Thats what happened those days when it was translated in greek..andthey tried to make it sound as much as possible close to the original pronounciation.
But now we can easily pronounced all the vowels and consonants..
Yeshua...translate it ashow it was pronounced
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#28
Misled...depends on who look at it...for you it mightbe mis leading.

Thats what happened those days when it was translated in greek..andthey tried to make it sound as much as possible close to the original pronounciation.
But now we can easily pronounced all the vowels and consonants..
Yeshua...translate it ashow it was pronounced
And that was the best they could have done, I don’t get why your finding a pronunciation such a false thing.

A pronunciation is hard to translate from one language to other language, some language don’t even use vowels and consonants or other things, my name is Lawrence Lorenzo in Spanish there is no way to transfer to pronunciation.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#29
And that was the best they could have done, I don’t get why your finding a pronunciation such a false thing.

A pronunciation is hard to translate from one language to other language, some language don’t even use vowels and consonants or other things, my name is Lawrence Lorenzo in Spanish there is no way to transfer to pronunciation.
Did you learned to write/read first?
We learned from hearing then we speak the words..an illiterate person no need to know how it was written...they only need to hear the name of the one who saved them...
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#30
Did you learned to write/read first?
We learned from hearing then we speak the words..an illiterate person no need to know how it was written...they only need to hear the name of the one who saved them...
Yes in English the same as other people in their own language, you can’t force a pronunciation upon another language if the word doesn’t have the same pronunciation. You used the English word for illiterate incorrectly that words means some one who can’t read or write in any language in Hebrew it is אנאלפביתים and you read it right to left
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#31
Would it be nice..even though we have different languages...
If we give praise to our Saviour name...we say it in one voice...no matter how it was written...but how united we say it and praise his holy name
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#32
Yes in English the same as other people in their own language, you can’t force a pronunciation upon another language if the word doesn’t have the same pronunciation. You used the English word for illiterate incorrectly that words means some one who can’t read or write in any language in Hebrew it is אנאלפביתים and you read it right to left
Even if you read from left to right..top to bottom...you can say the name how it is pronounce.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#33
Even if you read from left to right..top to bottom...you can say the name how it is pronounce.
I apologize I miss stated Hebrew it is read right to left.

Do you know how to read and right and speak Hebrew? , seriously because I don’t so pronouncing Jesus in Hebrew I’m clueless. I see your in the Philippines is that where you was born are you multilingual English I see you do speak.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#34
I apologize I miss stated Hebrew it is read right to left.

Do you know how to read and right and speak Hebrew? , seriously because I don’t so pronouncing Jesus in Hebrew I’m clueless. I see your in the Philippines is that where you was born are you multilingual English I see you do speak.
No i do not know how to write or read hebrew, but as i heard from some jewish program..how they pronounce it...like this as i heard it....ye-shoo-wa
Yeshua in english form.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#35
Interesting video on the name he also explains there’s nothing wrong with saying Jesus

 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#36
No i do not know how to write or read hebrew, but as i heard from some jewish program..how they pronounce it...like this as i heard it....ye-shoo-wa
Yeshua in english form.
Me neither, maybe we can Learn more on the topic from a wide angle of explanation,
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
63
#37
Interesting video on the name he also explains there’s nothing wrong with saying Jesus

I quote in some of my responses "Jesus" because that was the translation made from greek to english...maybe in spanish its Hesus??

If you will hear the sound..they sound different...and reading it its different aswell...

But if only everyone will use how the hebrew pronounce his name...it would be ye-shoo-wa or yea shu a, translate it how it was pronounce. Then we are praising the same name...though different translation
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,465
6,722
113
#39
That's a non sequitur. A translated name is still correct. The proof being the Greek portions of the new testament where the Greek rendering of the name of Jesus is used. Unless you are willing to throw out all the Greek texts, then you a destroying the the Canon of Scripture, and are no longer in the faith. But I have explained this 3 times now and you have yet to respond to the fact that in the Greek text they use the Greek rendering of the Lord's name, but rather you choose to use sarcastic fallacious nonlogic. I don't think you are interested in learning anything. I think you desire to impose your foolishness on others.
So I will end with this statement. In the Greek texts that the apostles wrote to the Greek Christians, they used the Greek translation of the name of the Lord, not the Hebrew name. Which means they translated the Lord's name into the language of the people that they were teaching.
None of the names fo our Savior are translated, not the popular names that is,. They are Transliterated, that is given the sounds of the original in a pronounciation keys and sounds of a different language
What we call a name, Yeshua, is actually the fulfillment of prophecy. Yeshi actually translated is my redeemer and ua or Yahu is God…(I Am.)
Yesuah is the sound of those words eveleved to today's Hebrew, and was iesous in the Greek, then Yesu, in the Latin, and now in English Jesus.
Otherwise the pronouncement to Mary by the Angel would make no sense agt all in English or other languages, that being "You shall call His Name, Jesus, for He shall save His People."
After much study, I have come to believe Yeshua is actually Yeshiyahu due to the many times Yahweh declared, I am your Husband, I am your Redeemer, and I am your King.
This falls right in line with Isaiah 9;6 where we learn the Babe born to Mary and Joseph is called Eternal Father, God Almighty, Ruler of Peace, Counselor and much more, making our Savior the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. God is ONE. Rejoice and praise Him, amen.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
1,659
113
#40
Do the general population of spanish speaking knows the name of Yeshua?
Can they pronounce it?
Yea it’s a bit shorter like this, some names in Spanish straight up say the English version.

El significado detrás de Y'shua es Salvacion.

The meaning behind Yeshua' is salvation.