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what is your view?
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EleventhHour
Guest
Spiritual dead does not mean that one cannot perceive truth.
Spiritually dead means we have separated from God
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)
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EleventhHour
Guest
“For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.” 1 Corinthians 1:18 (KJV 1900)I was waiting for this scripture...
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EleventhHour
Guest
How about:I was waiting for this one too
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” Ephesians 2:8–10 (KJV 1900)
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EleventhHour
Guest
I do not believe that scripture supports "total inability"
It makes no logical sense to me that God would decree man is incapable of responding to truth especially in light of the Gospel of John and the call to repent (change your mind) and believe.
If you read the entire passage... Paul is not contrasting the natural man versus the spiritual man, but rather human wisdom (very important in Greek culture) and divine revelation.
You won't agree but that is the real understanding of what Paul is doing.
Here's a new translation of the same:
“I mean that you have been saved by grace through believing. You did not save yourselves; it was a gift from God. It was not the result of your own efforts, so you cannot brag about it. God has made us what we are. In Christ Jesus, God made us to do good works, which God planned in advance for us to live our lives doing.” Ephesians 2:8–10 (EXPNT)
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EleventhHour
Guest
On the top of my list of favorite verses.
Mr. Dave... I could discuss further but I know who have your mind made up.
That is fine, I am sure you are a devout believer as I find most Calvinists to be
...however I think a faulty understanding inhibits greater deeper understanding of truth.
Free will = The ability to make a decision..
Obedience = Doing what one has been told to do..
Two totally different things..
Here's what you are missing out on. You must continue to frame your thoughts in an appropriate way to keep saved. It's like having your head in a vice. It's as bad as Jehovah's Witnesses who also believe in free will. And must keep working to keep saved. I used to believe like you.
But when I found out I could not believe unless Christ died for me, a giant weight lifted and I became as free as can be. Knowing my faith is evidence God saved me or I would not even consider him.
But obedience = works. Grace saves those who cannot believe and much less care to.
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EleventhHour
Guest
You are mistaken on this sorry I did not clarify,
Nope I believe salvation once given is eternal and irrevocable end of story on that.
Salvation is totally a work of God, however He does not force it upon us,
we are persuaded (not an act of the will, passive) and those that are persuaded receive the eternal gift.
When are you known of God?
Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
I believe he forces it on us being as wicked and blind as we are.
“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
He gives us a new heart removing our heart of stone.
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EleventhHour
Guest
“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)
He removes our heart of stone and gives us a new heart = you believe because God saved you so you could believe.