Demons in our Church.

[garee]

The laws of Moses are first the universal laws of the Lord written with God's own hand and to follow them is to follow love as is the core of all universal law. It is impossible to follow the law of love, the spiritual law, and break these laws for they express love. Second scripture also calls the rituals like circucision, the cutting of flesh the law of Moses. If you say that you are obeying the law of love by cutting flesh, you are judaizing and not following the spiritual law at all. If you say that you cannot follow Moses at all then you are saying you are a lawless rebel. Teaching to not follow the spiritual law that Moses gave us from God puts you in hell, for it is sin that Christ must cleanse you of. If you hold it in yourself and not let Christ in you give up your eternal life.

I would offer looking at the law of Moses from a different perspective representing the witness of God..

The witness of God as "two" is greater than the witness of men as to their private interpretations. Like that of Peter in John 21. When Peter started a oral tradition that John would remain in his flesh and not die. Jesus in effect said if every time he had to rebuke the private interpretations of men that the whole world could not hold the volumes that could be written.

The same two witnesses in Revelation that will be killed or silenced for a time. (A famine for hearing the gospel)

I think the "law of Moses" as a foundation is used to represent the letter of the law. ..death . It was not meant to be alone without a way to salvation which is according the the "law of faith" (the unseen, spiritual eternal ) The law of Moses is used along with the prophets, signified by Elias the unseen power. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. . who came in the unseen power of faith, signified by Alias . Together mixing the law of Moses with the law signified by Elisa to make one perfect law . Again the witness of God not seen.

The parable below reveals the letter of the law communing with the Spirit of the law, working as one witness. And introduces the Son of man, Jesus in whom the father spoke directly through in the last days.. the days we are in, as a living parable. . . of a perfect man .

Matthew 17 King James Version (KJV) And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Hear ye him in the above passage. as it relates to the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) The "just" law protecting the truth of God. . . .the unseen law of faith, the "justifier" .

Romans 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus

The Holy Spirit defending the integrity of the word that works in us to defend us as the armor of God. It has nothing to do with the flesh of one nation against the flesh and blood of another. As if new creature who do not know each other after the flesh did wrestle against flesh and blood.

Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ephesians 6:11-12

The law of Moses. . . death.

 

[Bede]

The Law as given to Moses was for Israel, not everybody. God never gave the Law to the Chinese, or the Celts, or the Incas. His purpose was that Israel would bear the Saviour, Jesus.

I agree. The laws given to Israel were for those under the Mosaic Covenant. The were a mixture of moral, ceremonial and social laws.

The moral laws (such as do not murder) reflected the eternal moral laws of God for all mankind. They are codifications of God's eternal moral law known to mankind from the beginning. When Cain slew Abel he knew he had done wrong. These moral laws can be found in the New Testament because they are also part of the New Covenant law. Regarding murder we are told:

Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him. (1Jn 3:15
and
You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment, and whoever says to his brother, ‘Raqa,’ will be answerable to the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, ‘You fool,’ will be liable to fiery Gehenna. (Mt 5:21-22).

But the non-moral laws are not applicable to us.

 

[Bede]

The Bible states clearly that there were also other nations present. Not only Israel

Where?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Agreed, but what will they teach humans to do?

I don't know what you mean

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Where?

In the Bible

Exodus 12:38

 

[Locoponydirtman]

In the Bible

Exodus 12:38

Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock.
Exodus 12:37‭-‬38 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/exo.12.37-38.NASB

The mixed multitude here does not mean other nations. It means men women and children. Verse 37 gives context to verse 38.

 

[Bede]

In the Bible

Exodus 12:38

According to a commentary the "mixed multitude" (literally a great rabble) would be "slaves, persons in the lowest grades of society, partly natives and partly foreigners, bound close to them as companions in misery, and gladly availing themselves of the opportunity to escape in the crowd"

Dt 29:10-12 puts it like this:
“You stand this day all of you before the Lord your God; the heads of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, all the men of Israel, your little ones, your wives, and the sojourner who is in your camp, both he who hews your wood and he who draws your water, that you may enter into the sworn covenant of the Lord your God, which the Lord your God makes with you this day;

These were not nations, they were a mixed people who escaped with the nation of Israel. But the important point is that they were to be included in the Covenant. And it was with Israel that the Covenant was made.

The Covenant was with Israel but those that "sojourned" with them were to be included. That says nothing about the gentile nations.
Ex 34:27 And the Lord said to Moses, “Write these words; in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.”
Those included in the Covenant were bound by the Covenant laws.

 

[Dino246]

So was Ruth an Israelite? Just asking the question

Is Jesus considered an Israelite, or a Moabite?

 

[Dino246]

The Bible states clearly that there were also other nations present. Not only Israel

Chapter and verse, please. Exodus 12:37-38 does not say, "other nations". It says nothing about the Chinese, the Celts, or the Incas being there. My point is that the Mosaic Law is NOT universal, as Blik claims. If you want to argue semantics, please do it with someone else.

 

[Dino246]

I would offer looking at the law of Moses from a different perspective representing the witness of God..

The witness of God as "two" is greater than the witness of men as to their private interpretations. Like that of Peter in John 21. When Peter started a oral tradition that John would remain in his flesh and not die. Jesus in effect said if every time he had to rebuke the private interpretations of men that the whole world could not hold the volumes that could be written.

Hogwash! He said, and hinted, nothing of the sort.

 

[Blik]

The Law as given to Moses was for Israel, not everybody. God never gave the Law to the Chinese, or the Celts, or the Incas. His purpose was that Israel would bear the Saviour, Jesus.

We are back to this! I think the Chinese, Celts, and Incas are part of the human race that God created so God would like them to be part of His universal teachings and guidance. Just like gravity has its effect on them same as all humans, so does the universal laws of the Lord.

Christ came first for the Jews, Christ invites us all.

 

[Bede]

We are back to this! I think the Chinese, Celts, and Incas are part of the human race that God created so God would like them to be part of His universal teachings and guidance. Just like gravity has its effect on them same as all humans, so does the universal laws of the Lord.

Christ came first for the Jews, Christ invites us all.

Part of his universal teaching - yes.

But the Mosaic Covenant & Law was not his universal teaching. It was for Israel.

Dt: 5:2-3 proves that
The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. Not with our fathers did the Lord make this covenant, but with us, who are all of us here alive this day.

 

[Dino246]

We are back to this! I think the Chinese, Celts, and Incas are part of the human race that God created so God would like them to be part of His universal teachings and guidance. Just like gravity has its effect on them same as all humans, so does the universal laws of the Lord.

Christ came first for the Jews, Christ invites us all.

This is a circular argument and is therefore invalid. It is also a category error.

You are asserting, without evidence, that the Mosaic Law is "universal". That is directly refuted by Romans 2:14 "For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves".

You need to distinguish between different types of laws. Gravity is not in the same category as "Do not murder". Gravity has an effect on persons who will never understand the law not to murder. There is no judgment awaiting those who contravene the "law" of gravity. One does not need to consciously and cautiously abide by the "law" of gravity to remain in right relationship with God. Gravity is a scientifically verified physical phenomenon. "Do not murder" is a command.

All people, regardless of ethnicity, are invited to come into relationship with God through faith in the person and finished work of Jesus Christ, not through the Mosaic Law. That simply wasn't its purpose.

 

[Whispered]

We are back to this! I think the Chinese, Celts, and Incas are part of the human race that God created so God would like them to be part of His universal teachings and guidance. Just like gravity has its effect on them same as all humans, so does the universal laws of the Lord.

Christ came first for the Jews, Christ invites us all.

I think we will always be back to this. Any Denomination or teaching that seeks to eradicate the Jews from Christianity is Satanic. If we ignore those, because the followers of such things will not be rebuked and be satisfied with that, we don't have to come back to certain aspects of the discussion as pertains to Gods eternal law.
As you observed, Jesus said He had other sheep who were not of "this fold", and He must bring them in also. So that there is one flock and one shepherd.
Another consideration concerning those Satanic doctrines. When they teach the laws of God are no longer applicable, they're teaching what can be recalled as, easy believerism. And also, hedonistic, carnal, faith practiced, because that teaching means also that sin is no longer an issue for those type believers. They can do whatever they like, because sin does not exist where there is no law.

The conflicting argument of that which is either Doctrine dedicated to anti-Judaism/Jewish or worse, antisemitism, often cites Saul as supporting the doctrine. Nothing could be further from truth.(*Saul/Paul) is my addition to the sentence below.
Benson Commentary
Romans 3:29-31. Is he the God of the Jews only? — He (*Saul/Paul) argues from the absurdity of such a supposition. Can it be imagined that a God of infinite love and mercy should limit and confine his favours to the little perverse people of the Jews, leaving all the rest of mankind in an eternally desperate condition? That would by no means agree with the idea we have of the divine goodness, for his tender mercies are over all his works. He is the God of the Gentiles also — And therefore hath established a way of justification, equally open to the Gentiles as to the Jews. Seeing it is one God — The same eternal and unchangeable Jehovah, that will justify the circumcision — The Jews, by faith; and the uncircumcision — The Gentiles, through the same faith — As if he had said, The way of justification is the same to both, whatever difference men may make in their expressions about it. He shows mercy to both, and by the very same means. Macknight thinks the expression, δια πιστεως, through faith, in the latter clause, is an ellipsis, for through the law of faith, mentioned Romans 3:27, (where see the note,) and signifies the method of salvation by faith, established in the new covenant, called a law for the reasons there given. “By this law of faith the Gentiles are to be justified. For though they have not the doctrines of revelation, as the objects of their faith, they may believe the doctrines of natural religion, (Hebrews 11:5,) and live agreeably to them: in which case their faith will be counted to them for righteousness, equally as the faith of those who enjoy revelation.” The same learned writer supposes, that in the expression, seeing there is one God, the apostle alludes to Zechariah 14:8, where the prophet foretels the progress of the gospel, under the image of living waters going out from Jerusalem, and then adds, Romans 3:9, And the Lord shall be king over all the earth, and in that day there shall be one Lord, and his name one; to show, that under the gospel dispensation, all nations shall be regarded by God as his people, that he will be acknowledged and worshipped by all nations, and that in the affair of their justification and salvation, he will observe one rule. Do we then — While we maintain this method of justification and salvation, make void the law — Set it aside, or render it useless, as καταργουμεν properly signifies; through faith — By teaching that justification is by faith, and that it is free for the Gentiles, as well as the Jews, in that way? God forbid — That we should ever insinuate such a design, or entertain such a thought; yea, we establish the law — On a firmer foundation than ever, and place it in a juster and more beautiful point of light: for we show that its honour is displayed in the atonement, as well as in the obedience of Christ; and we make it of everlasting use, for attesting the truth, and illustrating the necessity of the gospel, as well as for directing the lives of men, when they profess to have received it. In other words, we establish the authority, the purity, and the end of it; by defending that which the law attests, by pointing out Christ the end of it, and by showing how the moral part of it may be fulfilled in its purity. For through the influence of a faith that worketh by love, being enabled to love God, his children, and all mankind in sincerity and truth, we are brought to serve him without slavish fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, and to walk in his ordinances and moral commandments blameless. So that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, while we walk, not after the flesh, but after the Spirit; love to God and man, productive of such fruits, being accounted by God the fulfilling of the law, Romans 13:8-10; Galatians 5:14; James 2:8. Thus also that more ancient and universal law, which God has written on men’s hearts, and which we have termed the law of nature, is established in the strongest manner in and by the gospel. For every one that makes the moral law of Moses the rule of his conduct, will also observe the precepts of this, as included therein.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The mixed multitude here does not mean other nations. It means men women and children.

Since women and children would already be included among the Israelites, the mixed multitude refers to non-Israelites, probably Egyptians who realized that only the Israelites were safe from God's judgments.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Since women and children would already be included among the Israelites, the mixed multitude refers to non-Israelites, probably Egyptians who realized that only the Israelites were safe from God's judgments.

That defies the context of entire chapter and especially a few verses latter where they are talking about the unleavened bread and the forbidding of a foreigner to eat it.

 

[garee]

Now the sons of Israel journeyed from Rameses to Succoth, about six hundred thousand men on foot, aside from children. A mixed multitude also went up with them, along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock.
Exodus 12:37‭-‬38 NASB
https://bible.com/bible/100/exo.12.37-38.NASB

The mixed multitude here does not mean other nations. It means men women and children. Verse 37 gives context to verse 38.

I would think

The mixed multitude of humans along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock. Needed to feed male and female from mixed nations.

Not a mixed multitude of male and female along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I would think

The mixed multitude of humans along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock. Needed to feed male and female from mixed nations.

Not a mixed multitude of male and female along with flocks and herds, a very large number of livestock.

Don't forget that foreigners will forbidden to eat the rest of unleavened bread and the Passover before the end of the chapter.

 

[garee]

Don't forget that foreigners will forbidden to eat the rest of unleavened bread and the Passover before the end of the chapter.

Yes a foreigner and an hired servant they must perform the ceremonial law before they also could participate in the Passover ceremony.

The woman were to have their beauty nails cut off and their hair, the glory of woman shaved in order to become a inward Jew born of the Spirit to represent the bride of Christ.

Outward Jews of the flesh did not have that ceremony to perform .They represented the things of men the temporal seen .Not those of God not seen eternal faith.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;(death) whose praise is not of men, but of God.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Yes a foreigner and an hired servant they must perform the ceremonial law before they also could participate in the Passover ceremony.

The woman were to have their beauty nails cut off and their hair, the glory of woman shaved in order to become a inward Jew born of the Spirit to represent the bride of Christ.

Outward Jews of the flesh did not have that ceremony to perform .They represented the things of men the temporal seen .Not those of God not seen eternal faith.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter;(death) whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Not at the point in time when the scripture in question was happening.