Valley of Decision.... It's time to make a choice!

[Absolutely]

Yeshua/Jesus was examined by the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah) just as He was examined by the Jewish High Priest and Leaders and Pontus Pilate........all found Him innocent, no sin, full of the Righteousness of God. They could only condemn Him with false accusations, and because they feared the people.

Yeshua/Jesus was examined and is still being examined by theologians today. To believe or not to believe....... welcome to the "fork in the road."

Ok true to an extent.
But he came in part to die.
In order to die or be killed they needed a reason. Some were bogus but one was true.
Several were true actually.
He really did lead them into a belief apart from their mosaic understanding as well as breaking their sabbath in their faces.
But he claimed to be God (His son and co equal)
So there is a twist.
...in that they "HAD TO" kill him.

See that's the thing.
It is not one dimensional,in that the death of the sacrifice HAD TO BE ENGINEERED into the plan.
They "Had to" kill him.

 

[Absolutely]

All I know about calvinism is that the ones I have come across hate those operating in the gifts.
I have almost zero knowledge of their error...just have never like getting worked over by them.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

All I know about calvinism is that the ones I have come across hate those operating in the gifts.
I have almost zero knowledge of their error...just have never like getting worked over by them.

all the ones in this forum certainly are

with all the threads started by one or two of them here, I made it my business to learn more about how they operate and differ from us poor little spirit filled Christians who do not believe the Holy Spirit has been laid off

that also explains the superior puffed up attitude they can display although I think they might have been told to cut the name calling and rudeness because they have calmed down quite a bit

what a world

 

[Dave-L]

Perfect evidence of choice.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

 

[Locoponydirtman]

well that is Calvinism at its root...it's very core is wrong to begin with

declaring God puts His Spirit into the unsaved so that they can become saved, is absolute deception...as you know

I though God putting his spirit into a lost person was exactly what it means to be saved/born again.
If you don't have the Spirit you aren't saved...correct?

 

[Lafftur]

We will disagree on what the word examined means. Because it means inspect (someone or something) in detail to determine their nature or condition; investigate thoroughly.
Which implies that the examiner has authority to make a determination.

I do not disagree with you on what the word "examine" means. You described the definition very well and I agree with you.

The reason that Pilot had authority to determine the execution of Jesus is because Jesus subjected himself to that determination.

Yes, the same way Yeshua/Jesus subjected himself to Pontus Pilate to be examined by Roman Law and He was found to be innocent. Yeshua/Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration subjected Himself to be examined and a determination made over His "works" by the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah). Peter James and John were there as eyewitnesses for our benefit so that we might know.

I agree that no one had authority over Him because Yeshua/Jesus is God. It was the "BODY" - the "Works that were recorded in Yeshua/Jesus' Body" that were being examined - God had prepared His Perfect Lamb which was always examined before it was sacrificed - God had prepared a "Body."

Theologians, examine that which is written about him inorder to determine what their understanding of him/his nature should be.

When theologians examine Yeshua/Jesus, they are examining everything written about Him, what He said and what He did while He was in His Body and all that the Prophets have said He will do.

He revealed himself to the law and the prophets as their fulfillment, and to his disciples, so that they would know his true nature.

He subjected Himself to be examined by the Law and the Prophets to make it known that He had fulfilled all the Law and Prophet in a "human" body - the perfect sacrifice. It was for us.

They (Moses and the Elijah) had neither the knowledge nor the authority to make a determination about him. He showed them who he's is. This was not a test that he was subject to.

On this we disagree. You have misunderstood what I said.

If you think the prophets and the law are over Jesus to determine his worthiness you far underestimate who Jesus is. They are not his judge, but he shall judge all.

You have misunderstood me. Never did I say the Law and the Prophets were OVER Yeshua/Jesus or His Judge. A Judge and an Examiner are different in authority and purpose.

 

[Lafftur]

I though God putting his spirit into a lost person was exactly what it means to be saved/born again.
If you don't have the Spirit you aren't saved...correct?

Tell me about the power of the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus..........

How was the Temple of Solomon prepared BEFORE the Glory Cloud of the Lord filled His Temple?

 

[EleventhHour]

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

The comparison here is not natural man with the spiritual man ... the contrast is human wisdom and divine revelation.

This is what Paul is stating....those who rely on human wisdom instead of the spiritual truths brought by the inspired apostles will see the cross as foolish and perish as a result.

God does not decree that all men will see His words as foolish!!

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Tell me about the power of the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus..........

How was the Temple of Solomon prepared BEFORE the Glory Cloud of the Lord filled His Temple?

On this you and I will definitely agree.
Just as a baby being born of flesh comes in this world covered or washed in blood.
So is the reborn only washed in the blood of the Lamb and filled with the Holy Spirit

 

[CharliRenee]

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.” 2 Corinthians 4:3–4 (KJV 1900)

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,” Galatians 5:22 (KJV 1900)

Notice faith follows as the fruit of the Spirit which precedes.

Dave, I agree with you that Salvation is the Lords, that...

And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption,
1 Corinthians 1:30 ESV

He gets 100% of the glory. He does stir the spirit, He does draw us and call us, but I just believe He ultimately gives us choice.


Where we seem to agree, that which is MOST important component of this discussion, Dave, is salvation is the Lords.

God Bless you.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The comparison here is not natural man with the spiritual man ... the contrast is human wisdom and divine revelation.

This is what Paul is stating....those who rely on human wisdom instead of the spiritual truths brought by the inspired apostles will see the cross as foolish and perish as a result.

God does not decree that all men will see His words as foolish!!

But I think that that is his point. The natural man cannot rely on spiritual wisdom, he doesn't have any, and therefore sees the cross as foolishness.

 

[garee]

When a crisis hits that forces us to consider if God exists or if we are saved, we are in the "valley of decision"......

Joel 3:14 King James Version (KJV)
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

So, what is the “valley of decision”? It’s the fork in the road, the place where you can’t go on without making a choice. Which way to go…….which path to choose… Life or Death.

Deuteronomy 30:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

God's Will is that we would choose Life which is filled with blessings. He wants us to be with Him now on the Earth and in all eternity. God loves us!

Our sin separates us from God. He could have just annihilated us, but instead He chose to save us. He chose to give us Life, not Death. Now, God wants us to also choose Life, not Death.

On purpose, God gave us a choice because He doesn't want robots, He wants us to choose to love Him, to choose to know Him, to choose to be with Him. We don't have to wait till we die and go to heaven to be with God, we can be with Him now, on the Earth.

Yeshua/Jesus had to come to take away our sin so that we could receive the Gift of Eternal Life and be reconciled to the Father just because He loves us and wants to enjoy fellowship with us now on the Earth and in eternity.

By receiving the Body of Yeshua/Jesus, we receive the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
By receiving the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus, we receive total forgiveness and penalty paid in full for all our sins.

The Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus is the Human Fulfillment of the Law of Moses. While on the Earth, Yeshua/Jesus fulfilled all of the Human Law of Moses in His Body - every good work and obedience to the Law of Moses was recorded and fulfilled in the Body of Yeshua/Jesus, as well as all that the Prophets had written about Him.

On the Mount of Transfiguration Yeshua/Jesus was examined by Moses and Elijah - the Law and the Prophets. He was transfigured because He passed His examination - He had fulfilled all the "works" of righteousness for us.

Now, He was ready to go to the Cross where He would pour out His Blood and give His Life for us so that we would be able to choose Life. His Blood was examined and accepted by the Father. We know this because He rose from the dead, alive forevermore - the firstborn of many brethren. Yeshua/Jesus Christ offers us His Body and Blood, He offers us Life, if we reject Christ, then we have chosen Death.

Yeshua/Jesus Christ is the ONLY SAVIOR for us, there is NO OTHER. Don't play with or gamble the Gift of Eternal Life that the Father offers you. Death is real. There is a Lake of Fire that awaits those that choose the path of Death, by rejecting Yeshua/Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord.

After we make our decision with ALL our heart and choose Life by receiving Yeshua/Jesus as our Lord and Savior, we are "sealed" with the Holy Spirit immediately and marked as God's possession.

However, the "baptism" and "continually being filled" with the Holy Spirit is a Gift from the Father - just as He gave us the Gift of His Son - He gives us the Gift of the Holy Spirit which empowers us to live this new life in Christ that has been given us.

After we are "sealed" with the Holy Spirit, God wants to "baptize" us with the Holy Spirit. Our body is to be the Temple of the Holy Spirit - to be indwelt with the Holy Spirit. This is Emanuel - God with us on the Earth.

The "baptism" with the Holy Spirit is when God first fills you with His Holy Spirit. To help understand this, Solomon built the first Temple in Jerusalem and after the priests had placed the Ark in the Holy of Holies and left the temple, the Glory Cloud (Holy Spirit) filled the temple.

1 Kings 8:10-11 New International Version (NIV)
10 When the priests withdrew from the Holy Place, the cloud filled the temple of the Lord. 11 And the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled his temple.

The same happens to us - it's phenomenal! Absolutely a joyous time! You'll know when it happens.

After we are saved with the Body and Blood of Yeshua/Jesus, sealed with the Holy Spirit and baptized in water.......

How do we get baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit?

Simply ask the Father and the Lord Yeshua/Jesus Christ, "Father, Lord Jesus, I receive Your Gift of the Holy Spirit, baptize and fill me. Indwell me with Your Holy Spirit, I want to live with You on the Earth now and for all eternity. I choose Life. Your Gift of Eternal Life in me. Thank You, Father, in the Name of Yeshua/Jesus, amen."

The Holy Spirit dwells within us and with us on the Earth - just as Yeshua/Jesus was with His disciples on the Earth. The Holy Spirit will teach us, guide us, counsel us, comfort us, instruct us, correct us, empower us to be an effective witness of Yeshua/Jesus, and always be with us.

After the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit, the scriptures open up so beautifully to us and the things of God begin to make sense, we receive understanding and our love for God and His Ways increases tremendously.

However, loving God is ALWAYS a choice. He never takes the "choice" away from us. Every day if we do not choose God, then our flesh gets stronger and we backslide. It's very important to stay "filled" with the Holy Spirit. We do this by reading and meditating on God's Word, praying, singing songs in our hearts to God, fellow-shipping with other believers, etc.

Our flesh grieves the Holy Spirit. We need to learn to walk by the Spirit so we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It's a choice..... just keep choosing Life!

I would think God uses valleys as a humble place a door of hope (Hosea 2:15) a place calls us to repent turning us first so we can find him and turn to repent (to comfort) and humble ourselves. . Like the valley Achor. When used by what you did say lifting the gospel the valley of decision. Great way of saying that below.

So, what is the “valley of decision”? It’s the fork in the road, the place where you can’t go on without making a choice. Which way to go…….which path to choose… Life or Death.

Joshua 7:26 And they raised over him a great heap of stones unto this day. So the Lord turned from the fierceness of his anger. Wherefore the name of that place was called, The valley of Achor, unto this day.

Joshua 15:7And the border went up toward Debir from the valley of Achor, and so northward, looking toward Gilgal, that is before the going up to Adummim, which is on the south side of the river: and the border passed toward the waters of Enshemesh, and the goings out thereof were at Enrogel:

Isaiah 65:10 And Sharon shall be a fold of flocks, and the valley of Achor a place for the herds to lie down in, for my people that have sought me.

Hosea 2:15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.

Valleys are used that way a place of humble rest having all needs satisfied by ones savoir. . Mountains represent the high places as the kingdom of this world.

 

[Lafftur]

Tell me about the power of the Blood of Yeshua/Jesus..........

How was the Temple of Solomon prepared BEFORE the Glory Cloud of the Lord filled His Temple?

On this you and I will definitely agree.
Just as a baby being born of flesh comes in this world covered or washed in blood.
So is the reborn only washed in the blood of the Lamb and filled with the Holy Spirit

The Blood has to be FIRST. Sin has to be taken away from us. Blood was placed on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant (with the Bread, Aaron's Rod and Ten Commandments) in the Holy of Holies and sprinkled throughout the Temple BEFORE God's Glory Cloud filled the Temple of Solomon.

The priests as "natural" men could not enter the Temple or minister because the Glory of the Lord had filled the Temple.

If God put His Holy Spirit in us without first cleansing us with His Blood, we would die immediately.

By being indwelt with the Holy Spirit, It bears witness to us that we are saved just by the very fact that we are now joined to Christ and NOT DEAD.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

The Blood has to be FIRST. Sin has to be taken away from us. Blood was placed on the Mercy Seat of the Ark of the Covenant (with the Bread, Aaron's Rod and Ten Commandments) in the Holy of Holies and sprinkled throughout the Temple BEFORE God's Glory Cloud filled the Temple of Solomon.

The priests as "natural" men could not enter the Temple or minister because the Glory of the Lord had filled the Temple.

If God put His Holy Spirit in us without first cleansing us with His Blood, we would die immediately.

By being indwelt with the Holy Spirit, It bears witness to us that we are saved just by the very fact that we are now joined to Christ and NOT DEAD.

Oh never mind. I'm just going to get into an argument with you and then there will be animos between us, like there is with me and a couple other people.
I didn't choose to be a Christian. I am compelled by the truth and his Spirit. Can we leave it at that?

 

[notuptome]

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)

If you believe that God saved you against your will then you are not saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Locoponydirtman]

If you believe that God saved you against your will then you are not saved.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God saves everyone who gets saved against their will. God saves a man the same way a man meeks a horse to ride. It starts out with a wild unmanageable beast, and later becomes a beloved friend.

 

[Lafftur]

Oh never mind. I'm just going to get into an argument with you and then there will be animos between us, like there is with me and a couple other people.
I didn't choose to be a Christian. I am compelled by the truth and his Spirit. Can we leave it at that?

We may not accept each other's views on scripture but, we do accept, love and respect each other as brothers and sisters in Christ and we both still have a lot of growing up to do.

I'm not right all the time, I make mistakes but I do understand that when we believe that something is True deep down in our spirit, we stand on it and no one can tell us different except, of course, the Father, Son or Holy Spirit.

So, I understand that you believe with all your heart that you did NOT choose to be a Christian and that you are a Christian because you are compelled by the truth and the Holy Spirit.

I didn't choose to be a Christian. I am compelled by the truth and his Spirit. Can we leave it at that?

Yes, we can leave it at that. God bless you, in the Name of Yeshua/Jesus, amen.



But for the benefit of others reading this thread, I just want to add.....

We've heard it said, "God chose us, we did NOT choose Him" yet, why give Adam and Eve a choice to eat or not to eat.... set Life and Death before us and tell us to "choose Life"......

We did NOT choose for God to die for us, we did NOT choose for God to even create us in His image - that was His choice.

However, He does give us choices. He let's us choose if we will receive or not receive what He offers us - His Love, to know Him, and to be with Him on the Earth now and in Eternity.

 

[notuptome]

God saves everyone who gets saved against their will. God saves a man the same way a man meeks a horse to ride. It starts out with a wild unmanageable beast, and later becomes a beloved friend.

Clearly you do not understand Gods grace. God will not force you to escape eternal condemnation. Repentance requires submission of your will to the will of God.

What you are teaching is simply a mental assent and not heart belief.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I though God putting his spirit into a lost person was exactly what it means to be saved/born again.
If you don't have the Spirit you aren't saved...correct?

well of course you are not saved if you have not the indwelling Spirit of God

in fact, He is the seal of God upon you when you are saved

do you agree with God regenerating a person in order for them to be saved?

or do you agree that regeneration, which is through the power of the Holy Spirit, occurs when one accepts Christ and is on ongoing process?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Clearly you do not understand Gods grace. God will not force you to escape eternal condemnation. Repentance requires submission of your will to the will of God.

What you are teaching is simply a mental assent and not heart belief.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

amen