Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

[Gentile]

The mystery of the Godhead will only be "known" to those who are elected and predestined by God. One may not like the fact that God has control over your eternal destination, but Jesus said "neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." (Matthew 11:27)

 

[livingbygrace]

With all of this prayer and fasting and exhaustive study, where is the fruit.? You don't believe in the Trinity, fine, but where is the fruit that you have been ordained to bear much of that is to remain? We have the testimony in the scriptures of Christ's fruit, we also see Paul's fruit in many of the churches and also the other apostles that have been mentioned in scripture. BUT, where is your fruit?

Through faith you have trusted Christ for salvation and the forgiveness of sins. Christ is in you and you are in Christ and have the indwelling of the Spirit. You have been born of the incorruptible seed of God's word, RIGHT? You have all it takes and it all came from God through mercy and grace and you have been around for awhile as a Christian, so where is the fruit that God has borne in your own life? Is it hidden or yet to be revealed? Is it obvious to all that know you or is it underground following the vine?

Do you cast your bread upon the waters, do you sow when the weathers bad, do you take up your cross and deny yourself to follow Christ who is always bearing fruit through the branches that abide in Him? Do you want all the verses on this, if you do then ask I have them all and they are not man made. These are questions for you to apply to yourself, you do not have to answer me or to me. If you have (13) years invested, you must surely have some fruit to show for it. If not, what are we to think of your life and what you know and understand concerning Christ when you have no fruit?

Why not look at the profile page of PPS and see the work he does for the Lord, rather than infer what you do

I call this a sulky response to not being able to SCRIPTURALLY discuss the subject at hand.

It is best to be concerned about the fruit we as individuals are producing rather than raise questions concerning others, and we all need to ensure fruit is being desired for the GLORY OF GOD, and not for other less pure motives, otherwise our pride will drive us to baseless accusations and inferences that are not being driven by love

 

[mpaper345]

I do not believe there are 3 persons in one God,and I do not believe Father means soul,and then He has a Spirit,since there is only one God,before He created anything then how would He be a Father when He would have no offspring,therefore Father is a title for God,because He created mankind,and the Bible says He is the Father of spirits,showing He obtained the title Father when He created mankind,and God is a Holy Spirit.

There is only one God a Holy Spirit.That is it one God a Holy Spirit.
Father is a title for God the Holy Spirit.
The Son is the man Christ Jesus.

There is only one God a Holy Spirit and whatever name He calls Himself and whatever title He has,He is still one God with no distinction of persons.

People want to try to understand the three titles that do not want to believe in a trinity,and say Father means the soul part,but God was not a Father before He created anything,therefore Father is a title that God had after He created the angels,and then mankind.Father is a title for God's parental role not soul,although the Father is God the Holy Spirit.

There is only one God a Holy Spirit,and the Holy Spirit is all that encompasses God.Father is a title that God took on after His creation.

There is not 3 persons in one God,but there is only one God who is an omnipresent Spirit,and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit with no distinction of persons.

The proper way to understand Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,to mean one God and not 3 persons,is that they are 3 titles that the one true God uses to designate the 3 relationships with His children,and it is the same God with no distinction of persons that did it all.

Father-God is the parent of the saints so of course He would be their Father.It does not mean a first person of a trinity but God has the title of Father for He is the Father of the saints.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints.God working visibly among mankind,and the only way He can do that is be manifesting all His attributes to a human conceived by His Spirit,which He did in the Son,the man Christ Jesus,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated.

Holy Ghost-God's invisible relationship to the saints.God working invisibly among mankind.

God is a Holy Spirit,so everything He does is by His Holy Spirit.It was the Spirit that moved upon the face of the deep in creation.It was the Spirit that caused the conception of Jesus in the womb of Mary.It is the Spirit that dwells in the saints.

God the Holy Spirit does it all,and is the only God,and Father does not mean soul,for the Holy Spirit encompasses all God is totally,and Father is a title to represent the parental role of God the Holy Spirit.

Before God created anything,He is a Holy Spirit,not a Father,and after He created all things then He became the Father,a parent of spirits,and a parent of the saints.

 

[phil36]

I do not believe there are 3 persons in one God,and I do not believe Father means soul,and then He has a Spirit,since there is only one God,before He created anything then how would He be a Father when He would have no offspring,therefore Father is a title for God,because He created mankind,and the Bible says He is the Father of spirits,showing He obtained the title Father when He created mankind,and God is a Holy Spirit.

There is only one God a Holy Spirit.That is it one God a Holy Spirit.
Father is a title for God the Holy Spirit.
The Son is the man Christ Jesus.

There is only one God a Holy Spirit and whatever name He calls Himself and whatever title He has,He is still one God with no distinction of persons.

People want to try to understand the three titles that do not want to believe in a trinity,and say Father means the soul part,but God was not a Father before He created anything,therefore Father is a title that God had after He created the angels,and then mankind.Father is a title for God's parental role not soul,although the Father is God the Holy Spirit.

There is only one God a Holy Spirit,and the Holy Spirit is all that encompasses God.Father is a title that God took on after His creation.

There is not 3 persons in one God,but there is only one God who is an omnipresent Spirit,and is the same throughout His omnipresent Spirit with no distinction of persons.

The proper way to understand Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,to mean one God and not 3 persons,is that they are 3 titles that the one true God uses to designate the 3 relationships with His children,and it is the same God with no distinction of persons that did it all.

Father-God is the parent of the saints so of course He would be their Father.It does not mean a first person of a trinity but God has the title of Father for He is the Father of the saints.

Son-God's visible relationship to the saints.God working visibly among mankind,and the only way He can do that is be manifesting all His attributes to a human conceived by His Spirit,which He did in the Son,the man Christ Jesus,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated.

Holy Ghost-God's invisible relationship to the saints.God working invisibly among mankind.

God is a Holy Spirit,so everything He does is by His Holy Spirit.It was the Spirit that moved upon the face of the deep in creation.It was the Spirit that caused the conception of Jesus in the womb of Mary.It is the Spirit that dwells in the saints.

God the Holy Spirit does it all,and is the only God,and Father does not mean soul,for the Holy Spirit encompasses all God is totally,and Father is a title to represent the parental role of God the Holy Spirit.

Before God created anything,He is a Holy Spirit,not a Father,and after He created all things then He became the Father,a parent of spirits,and a parent of the saints.

I thought I had heard it all until i read your post mpaper!

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

With all of this prayer and fasting and exhaustive study, where is the fruit.? You don't believe in the Trinity, fine, but where is the fruit that you have been ordained to bear much of that is to remain? We have the testimony in the scriptures of Christ's fruit, we also see Paul's fruit in many of the churches and also the other apostles that have been mentioned in scripture. BUT, where is your fruit?

Through faith you have trusted Christ for salvation and the forgiveness of sins. Christ is in you and you are in Christ and have the indwelling of the Spirit. You have been born of the incorruptible seed of God's word, RIGHT? You have all it takes and it all came from God through mercy and grace and you have been around for awhile as a Christian, so where is the fruit that God has borne in your own life? Is it hidden or yet to be revealed? Is it obvious to all that know you or is it underground following the vine?

Do you cast your bread upon the waters, do you sow when the weathers bad, do you take up your cross and deny yourself to follow Christ who is always bearing fruit through the branches that abide in Him? Do you want all the verses on this, if you do then ask I have them all and they are not man made. These are questions for you to apply to yourself, you do not have to answer me or to me. If you have (13) years invested, you must surely have some fruit to show for it. If not, what are we to think of your life and what you know and understand concerning Christ when you have no fruit?

Answering sonething like this is a bit perplexing. I certainly am not foolish enough to commend myself or think more highly of myself than I ought. I prefer to sit at the foot of the table. I would rather humble myself under the mighty hand of God, that He might exalt me in due time.

Yet I would be remiss to not give glory to God for that which He's blessed me to be part of by His ministry through me. I hardly think an internet forum discussion is the barometer for either of our lives. Just because I staunchly oppose the unbiblical Trinity doctrine that cost me my very soul for 28 years; it doesn't mean I don't yield to God's grace to have the fruit of the Spirit.

Being a Trinitarian, you've never faced down the merciless locomotive of orthodox Trinity indoctrination and default entitlement. Trinis notoriously conceptualize rather than providing Scripture; and the few passages given are always marginal at best. The churches rarely teach much, instead declaring and assenting to it as absolute fact; but unable to earnestly contend for their faith beyond a creedally-derived paragraph with limited proof-texting and conceptual descriptions.

Do I tell you of God's ministry in me to the prisons, nursing homes, and hospitals? I've been blessed to see every kind of miracle at God's hand. As part of a Recovery Pastoral team, I see addicts' lives and families changed. God has blessed me with successful businesses, so that I can go minister on the streets and in tents, being chargeable to no man for my support. My wife is a quadraplegic, and I've care for her myself without a days' break for 6 years.

I have failed miserably in most areas of life at one time or another. I'm not as thankful or faithful as I would like to be. Of all the times I've fallen, I can only heed the Word and get up again. I don't trust my flesh, even after fasting for months and months at a time. I certainly don't trust others' unfasted flesh.

I suppose many others would say I bear fruit, but I simply leave that assessment to God by His Spirit. He's the Husbandman.

This ONE thing I know by the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him... God is Spirit-Soul-Body of One Divinity; and by the Spirit, I can exegete that truth from the Greek throughout the NT. And God as three "persons" is nowhere in Scripture beyond inference and tradition.

I don't really know how else to respond in this environment. We certainly don't have opportunity to greet one another personally; and the forum is a limited format.

I have no such personal challenge for you. I'm only concerned with the topic at hand and the pattern of how Trinis deal with it. ...which usually isn't with much fruit OR valid Scripture.

I'm not sure why you're so concerned about judging others' lives instead of staying with Scripture on a topic.

 

[livingbygrace]

Phil


I believe that Christ is a person in his own right, therefore obviously not the Father. I believe the spirit proceeds from the Father and exhibits in the son
Therefore the fulness of the Godhead bodily dwells in the son.

Now I guess to you and others if the spirit exhibits in the son and therefore the Father dwells fully in the son you could say via the spirit you feel you can say and use the words Christ is God Himself. This is one of the two areas we disagree. From a humanistic point of view with rational understanding I suppose I can see where you are coming from, but against that view is clear scripture. The Father according to Paul, John and Christ is the one true God and only he can be refered to as God Himself. Christ is the son of God, but does have the title God, confusing maybe but that is what scripture says. The name of the Father is in the son. And of course in Biblical terms many were refered to as gods

And I believe(as you do not) that the Father is greater than the son, for Christ plainly said so. And the Father is the only true God

But the person of who Christ is in nature we would both agree on.

Incidentally in accordance with scripture I believe Christ reigns now over God's kingdom and will until all dominion, authority and power has been defeated, then he will become subject to the Father as is clearly stated in scripture.

For Christ has been given all power and authority in Heaven and on earth by his Father.

I guess you will still have to call me a heretic, but one of us must have a severe lack of understanding the Gospel message, for I am utterly convinced I am saved.

I believe the problem is the rational mind. It has to reason that if the spirit fully exhibits in Christ he must be God Himself. But then you have to decide what is most important
The rationalisation of man, or clear emphatic scripture, because if this debate has shown one thing to be true it is that if you say Christ is God Himself, or that you must believe he is to have eternal life you cannot stand on the plainest of statements in the Bible

So what matters more? The brilliance of man, or plain Biblical statements on this issue?

I stand on the plainest of scripture, it is for others to decide what they will stand on

 

[ucbc777]

Jesus Christ is the SON of God. He is of the same spirit of God just as we are all part of our parents but different people. I don't understand how anyone can misunderstand this but more and more I see how so many do. If anyone thinks that Jesus and God are the actual same person, then who did Jesus pray to? Who sits at the "Right hand of the Father"? There are many, many scriptures that state he is the Son and yet people still claim he is all the same. There is the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which dwells in those who accept and live the life of Christ. I could quote many things but I think most Christians do not need it. BUT if you do, just ask God bless

 

[livingbygrace]

Jesus Christ is the SON of God. He is of the same spirit of God just as we are all part of our parents but different people. I don't understand how anyone can misunderstand this but more and more I see how so many do. If anyone thinks that Jesus and God are the actual same person, then who did Jesus pray to? Who sits at the "Right hand of the Father"? There are many, many scriptures that state he is the Son and yet people still claim he is all the same. There is the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which dwells in those who accept and live the life of Christ. I could quote many things but I think most Christians do not need it. BUT if you do, just ask God bless

It is a blessing to read this post, thank you for it.

But as you are new to this site may I give you some brotherly advice.

Unless you are VERY, VERY thick skinned avoid this subject with your beliefs.

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

Jesus Christ is the SON of God. He is of the same spirit of God just as we are all part of our parents but different people. I don't understand how anyone can misunderstand this but more and more I see how so many do. If anyone thinks that Jesus and God are the actual same person, then who did Jesus pray to? Who sits at the "Right hand of the Father"?

God isn't a person. Jesus was a prosopon (G4383) (2Cor. 2:10).

You might want to study a bit. "Right hand" (dexios G1188) is not a location. It represents something else.

There are many, many scriptures that state he is the Son and yet people still claim he is all the same. There is the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which dwells in those who accept and live the life of Christ. I could quote many things but I think most Christians do not need it. BUT if you do, just ask God bless

Are you a Trinitarian? If so, yes... please support your doctrine that God is three "persons" from Scripture. No inference. No deduction. No induction. No speculation. Just plain Scripture that God is three "persons".

Thanks. Blessings back to you.

 

[Red33]

Jesus Christ is the SON of God. He is of the same spirit of God just as we are all part of our parents but different people. I don't understand how anyone can misunderstand this but more and more I see how so many do. If anyone thinks that Jesus and God are the actual same person, then who did Jesus pray to? Who sits at the "Right hand of the Father"? There are many, many scriptures that state he is the Son and yet people still claim he is all the same. There is the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit which dwells in those who accept and live the life of Christ. I could quote many things but I think most Christians do not need it. BUT if you do, just ask God bless

The Godhead (which is a noun in the singular) is made up of three parts or persons as you have mentioned. The fact that the Godhead is singular does not take away from the three parts that exist in the Godhead. The same for man (that is also in the singular) but man is made of three parts as well, spirit, soul and body (1Thes 5:23). The issue of using the label 'person', bothers some because they do not believe that the Godhead is a Trinity of persons that reveal only one God, but we can leave them to their own rationalized understanding and error.

The issue that certain posters have made here (one in particular) is that no one has seen God and that God was not manifest in the flesh. This has been the crucks of this thread and their have been some deceitful assertions that have been made like the one you bring up among others concerning eternal life. After they read this post these same posters will probably come out of cyber-space and defend themselves while accusing me of many things. I am absolutely under the conviction of truth that the Godhead is made up of a Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are co-equal, co-eternal, having the same diety, holiness and who have had different functions throughout the dispensations of the ages but reveal only one true God.

You tell me what you think of this passage of scripture and what Jesus Christ meant when He responded to Thomas and Philip's request...

Jn 14:6-11
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Even though I am writing this to you, someone will 'butt in' and have to say something before you even get a chance to respond. I can only interpret this one way and I see the Father in the Son and I see the Son showing and revealing the Father through Himself in His spirit, soul and body. Just look at (verse 9) and tell me what you think He was saying. To me there is absolutely no doubt that God was manifest in the flesh through the person of His Son. As you think upon this, watch and see how others react to it.

 

[livingbygrace]

The Godhead (which is a noun in the singular) is made up of three parts or persons as you have mentioned. The fact that the Godhead is singular does not take away from the three parts that exist in the Godhead. The same for man (that is also in the singular) but man is made of three parts as well, spirit, soul and body (1Thes 5:23). The issue of using the label 'person', bothers some because they do not believe that the Godhead is a Trinity of persons that reveal only one God, but we can leave them to their own rationalized understanding and error.

The issue that certain posters have made here (one in particular) is that no one has seen God and that God was not manifest in the flesh.

Who has said God was not manifest in the flesh of Christ? If you are refering to me you are not telling the truth. For you know that at least twice in posts tpo you I have confirmed that God was via the Spirit manifested in the flesh of Christ. Why can you not be honest in your posts, why do you have to resort to untruths?

And the person who wrote John's Gospel that you so often quote lived with Christ for three years but clearly stated

No-one has seen God 1 John 4:12

This has been the crucks of this thread and their have been some deceitful assertions that have been made like the one you bring up among others concerning eternal life.

What is a deceitful assertion

You have clearly and consisitently stated that it is not enough simply to believe Christ is the son of God. Unless a person believes Christ is God himself they can have no eternal life and are condemend and are ;possessed by the spirit of antichrist. I have pointed out to you that belief is not Biblical


After they read this post these same posters will probably come out of cyber-space and defend themselves while accusing me of many things. I am absolutely under the conviction of truth that the Godhead is made up of a Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are co-equal, co-eternal, having the same diety, holiness and who have had different functions throughout the dispensations of the ages but reveal only one true God.

Christ said

The Father is greater than I

The Father is greater than all

That they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent

But you will not endorse piublically the words of Christ as being the truth in John 17:3 will you?


You tell me what you think of this passage of scripture and what Jesus Christ meant when He responded to Thomas and Philip's request...

Jn 14:6-11
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Christ is a true reflection of the person his Father is as the spirit was on Christ in BODILY FORM. He reflected the characteristics of his Father. Love, mercy compassion etc. If you take those verses literaLLY the Father can be seen, this is impossible according to Christ's own words
John 6:46


Even though I am writing this to you, someone will 'butt in' and have to say something before you even get a chance to respond. I can only interpret this one way and I see the Father in the Son and I see the Son showing and revealing the Father through Himself in His spirit, soul and body.

Yes the Father is in the son, who disagrees with this? And the Father is revealed ion the son

Just look at (verse 9) and tell me what you think He was saying. To me there is absolutely no doubt that God was manifest in the flesh through the person of His Son.

As you know if you are honest I agree with this.
But according to scripture Christ is not the one true God Himself. The only way you can come to that conclusion is to ignore much plain scripture on this subject
As you think upon this, watch and see how others react to it.

[Please explain where I have been untruthful in my comments here.

If we are unable to be honest it shows we have lost the argument and cannot scritpurally defend what we are saying

 

[livingbygrace]

The truth is, people are being condemned and lied about because they stand on the truth of the plain words of scripture, not the teaching of man.
They are being persecuted and smeared because they dare to believe what the Bible plainly says.
What they write is deliberately distorted and some even lie about them in order to smear them

Why does this happen? The reason is plain, because people who believe they have the truth of the literal word and are proud of this and want to be looked to as having great scriptural knowledge and understanding have no scriptural answers to what is being put before them. So all they can do is lash out and smear and be untruthful concerning people who stand on the plain words of scripture, believing this may deflect from the obvious lack of ability they have to scripturally defend their opinions

And the reason is down to the pride and vanity of man

Yet I will not use the words that others have eagerly used concerning me. But nothing has changed in two thousand years, for human nature wil never change.

He who speaks on his own does so to gain honour for himself,. but he who works for the honour of the one who sent him is a man of truth and there is nothing false about him
John7:19

No-one who reflected the above in their life would wish to smear, speak untruthfully concerning someone who stood on plain scripture, nor would they lash out when they cannot defend themselves and their beliefs with scripture, for they would understand the truth because God will. always give truth to those who seek his glory and not their own
But the proud and arrogant will find that their pride and arrogance is a barrier to them understanding the heart of the Gospel, they are left reaming off scripture from head knowledge that is not driven by pure motives, and when they cannot defend scripturally what is put to them they will always react by lashing out, for they are driven by pride and vanity, not a desire firstly to seek glory for the God who loved them enough to send his only begotten son to die for them on the cross

 

[Dutch41]

I think the secret of the revelation of Christ, we can find it in the Old Testament. Till about 300 A.C. the church studied for the most the Old Testament.
The apostle Paul was using the Old Testament as evidence what and who Christ is.. and what is happen (Act 17:10-13, 26:22, 28:23)

And when we study the Old Testament.. we see that Jesus is Lord. He is God.

 

[Red33]

With all this bantering back and forth there is one precious verse of scripture that speaks to the heart and sums it up.

1Tim 3:16 And without controversy (with the consent and confession of those that know the Lord) great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

For us to know the Lord is to know and to have seen the Father by faith. This mystery of godliness is justified in our hearts by faith through the revelation of the Spirit that reveals all things concerning the Son that came from the Father. For us to have fellowship with the Son is to also have fellowship with the Father, we can not have one without the other. To recognize through the testimony of the word and the Spirit, that Jesus was the expressed image of His person, is to see the Father through the Son as Philip and the other disciples had seen Him when He walked among them (Jn 14). Some day we will see Him as He is, with the glory of the Father and we will glorify the Father through Him.

It is a glorious thing to know and see and have fellowship with the Father through the Son, who is exactly and precisely the same as the Father in every way. Who thought it not robbery to take on His form and be equal with God and to have seen the Son was to see the Father. To see and know the Son is to see and know the Father. We can not believe or have eternal life without the Father or the Son. They are one and they are the same in every way. To see the Son is to see the Father. To know the Son is to know the Father. To receive the Son is to receive the Father and to believe upon the Son is to believe upon the Father. Those that have the Son have the Father and you can't have the Father without the Son. They are not interchangeable, they are one.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is God manifest in the flesh as the only true God with uncreated eternal life and that life He gives to those who believe that the Father sent His Son as God in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory, having the same glory with the Father and as the Father. Great is this controversy of godliness.

This is the message that we have been called to preach, to teach, to know and understand as the doctrine of Christ and to live in this present evil world that is filled with the spirit of antichrist. He that denies that the Son was the only true God made in the likeness of the sinful flesh is to deny the Father and that is the spirit of antichrist.

 

[livingbygrace]

With all this bantering back and forth there is one precious verse of scripture that speaks to the heart and sums it up.

1Tim 3:16 And without controversy (with the consent and confession of those that know the Lord) great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Are not all verses of scripture precious? Yet you deny your Saviours own words, and try to use man made theology and reasoning to demand what Christ did not demand for a person to have eternal life. But then you attempt to quote scripture in a Godly manner?

Christ said that if a person believes he is the son of God he has eternal life on that basis, he did not add to that. Why do you?
How do you and others have the spiritual authority to demand for salvation a view that Christ did not demand?
For us to know the Lord is to know and to have seen the Father by faith. This mystery of godliness is justified in our hearts by faith through the revelation of the Spirit that reveals all things concerning the Son that came from the Father. For us to have fellowship with the Son is to also have fellowship with the Father, we can not have one without the other. To recognize through the testimony of the word and the Spirit, that Jesus was the expressed image of His person, is to see the Father through the Son as Philip and the other disciples had seen Him when He walked among them (Jn 14). Some day we will see Him as He is, with the glory of the Father and we will glorify the Father through Him.

The Chjristian is justified by believing Christ is the son of God, he died for their sins on the cross and that if a person repents of their sin(which you do not believe is neccessary at conversion) and asks Christ, the son of God into their life as Lord and Saviour they are saved. It is not for you to add to scripture and demand what Christ did not demand
Further to this you cannot produce even ONE scripture that that backs up your demand for what is needed to be believed to have etertnal life

It is a glorious thing to know and see and have fellowship with the Father through the Son, who is exactly and precisely the same as the Father in every way. Who thought it not robbery to take on His form and be equal with God and to have seen the Son was to see the Father. To see and know the Son is to see and know the Father. We can not believe or have eternal life without the Father or the Son. They are one and they are the same in every way. To see the Son is to see the Father. To know the Son is to know the Father. To receive the Son is to receive the Father and to believe upon the Son is to believe upon the Father. Those that have the Son have the Father and you can't have the Father without the Son. They are not interchangeable, they are one.



Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is God manifest in the flesh as the only true God with uncreated eternal life and that life He gives to those who believe that the Father sent His Son as God in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory, having the same glory with the Father and as the Father. Great is this controversy of godliness.


This is the message that we have been called to preach, to teach, to know and understand as the doctrine of Christ and to live in this present evil world that is filled with the spirit of antichrist. He that denies that the Son was the only true God made in the likeness of the sinful flesh is to deny the Father and that is the spirit of antichrist.

The message the Christian has been called to preach(according to scripture) is that Christ, the son of God came to earth and died for our sins. You may try to play with words to justify your demands for what someone has to believe to have eternal life THAT IS NOT WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE, but how many will be taken in by this?


You cannot produce ANY verse of scripture to back up what you claim is needed for a person to have eternal life, therefore your belief on this subject is not Biblical
And those who do simply stand on what is BIBLICALLY neccessary to have eternal life and do not accept the antibiblical demands you make are accused by you of hasving the spirit of antichrist, heretics, condemned and therefore can have no eternal life

I ask again. From where do you get your authority to demand what Christ did not demand concerning how a person must see him to have eternal life?

DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN
1 Cor 4:6

And why quote scripture when you will not accept what Christ cointinuously said was needed to be believed for a person to have everlasting life
I would have respect for you if you could just show some humility and admit you are wrong on this issue.
You cannot demand what Christ did not demand for a person to have eternal life
And anyone who does, does not have a heart that is led by truth or love, but vanity and pride, and therefore they cannot in humility be seeking glory firstly for the God who loved them and sent his son to die for them, but rather they are seeking honour and recognition for themselves, however meekly or humbly they may wish to appear with their words

 

[PneumaPsucheSoma]

With all this bantering back and forth there is one precious verse of scripture that speaks to the heart and sums it up.

1Tim 3:16 And without controversy (with the consent and confession of those that know the Lord) great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

For us to know the Lord is to know and to have seen the Father by faith. This mystery of godliness is justified in our hearts by faith through the revelation of the Spirit that reveals all things concerning the Son that came from the Father. For us to have fellowship with the Son is to also have fellowship with the Father, we can not have one without the other. To recognize through the testimony of the word and the Spirit, that Jesus was the expressed image of His person, is to see the Father through the Son as Philip and the other disciples had seen Him when He walked among them (Jn 14). Some day we will see Him as He is, with the glory of the Father and we will glorify the Father through Him.

It is a glorious thing to know and see and have fellowship with the Father through the Son, who is exactly and precisely the same as the Father in every way. Who thought it not robbery to take on His form and be equal with God and to have seen the Son was to see the Father. To see and know the Son is to see and know the Father. We can not believe or have eternal life without the Father or the Son. They are one and they are the same in every way. To see the Son is to see the Father. To know the Son is to know the Father. To receive the Son is to receive the Father and to believe upon the Son is to believe upon the Father. Those that have the Son have the Father and you can't have the Father without the Son. They are not interchangeable, they are one.

Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is God manifest in the flesh as the only true God with uncreated eternal life and that life He gives to those who believe that the Father sent His Son as God in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world and received up into glory, having the same glory with the Father and as the Father. Great is this controversy of godliness.

This is the message that we have been called to preach, to teach, to know and understand as the doctrine of Christ and to live in this present evil world that is filled with the spirit of antichrist. He that denies that the Son was the only true God made in the likeness of the sinful flesh is to deny the Father and that is the spirit of antichrist.

I literally agree with every word of this, even though conceptually you personally are referring to three "persons". Concept aside, every word of this is scripturally accurate.

Notice that you reference Hebrews 1:3, and Jesus is the express image of HIS person (hupostasis), NOT a separate "person" of three.

 

[livingbygrace]

The following is scripturally true

Then the end will come when he(Christ) hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power
For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet
The last enemy to be destroyed is death
For he has put everything under his feet
Now when it says that everything has been put under him it is clear that this does not include God Himself who put everything under Christ
When he has done this, then the son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him so that God may be all in all

1 Cor 15:24-28

 

[Dutch41]

The message the Christian has been called to preach(according to scripture) is that Christ, the son of God came to earth and died for our sins. You may try to play with words to justify your demands for what someone has to believe to have eternal life THAT IS NOT WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE, but how many will be taken in by this?


You cannot produce ANY verse of scripture to back up what you claim is needed for a person to have eternal life, therefore your belief on this subject is not Biblical
And those who do simply stand on what is BIBLICALLY neccessary to have eternal life and do not accept the antibiblical demands you make are accused by you of hasving the spirit of antichrist, heretics, condemned and therefore can have no eternal life

I ask again. From where do you get your authority to demand what Christ did not demand concerning how a person must see him to have eternal life?

DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN
1 Cor 4:6

And why quote scripture when you will not accept what Christ cointinuously said was needed to be believed for a person to have everlasting life
I would have respect for you if you could just show some humility and admit you are wrong on this issue.
You cannot demand what Christ did not demand for a person to have eternal life
And anyone who does, does not have a heart that is led by truth or love, but vanity and pride, and therefore they cannot in humility be seeking glory firstly for the God who loved them and sent his son to die for them, but rather they are seeking honour and recognition for themselves, however meekly or humbly they may wish to appear with their words

Well in Lc 1:32-35 is written why Jesus is called the Son of God..
And the angel answered and said unto her, "The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that Holy Being who shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

See the reason..

But a question in Isaiah 6:1 In the year of king ‘Uzziyahu’s death I saw the Lord sitting upon a high and exalted throne, and his train filled the temple.

Who saw Isaiah? The Answer is vs 5:
And I said, Woe is me! for I am lost; because a man of unclean lips am I, and in the midst of a people of unclean lips do I dwell; for the King, the Lord of hosts have my eyes seen.

He saw the King who is called -YHWH- How know we that for sure? Well immediately a seraf came and made him purify.

What said Jesus?
40 "He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
41 These things said Isaiah when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Jesus is clear: He said: Isaiah saw me.. in my full glory..and he knows that I AM..

Why fell all at ground when they seek Jesus in the Getsemane? because Jesus said
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come on him, went forth, and said to them, Whom seek you? 5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said to them, I am (he). And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said to them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

All fell at the ground. Why because Jesus revealed Him self with His divine name.. ego eimi.. or.. I am..the word he is never written in the Greek text.

If you want to know who Christ is.. look at the Old Testament...

 

[livingbygrace]

Well in Lc 1:32-35 is written why Jesus is called the Son of God..
And the angel answered and said unto her, "The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee. Therefore also that Holy Being who shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

See the reason..

But a question in Isaiah 6:1 In the year of king ‘Uzziyahu’s death I saw the Lord sitting upon a high and exalted throne, and his train filled the temple.

Who saw Isaiah? The Answer is vs 5:
And I said, Woe is me! for I am lost; because a man of unclean lips am I, and in the midst of a people of unclean lips do I dwell; for the King, the Lord of hosts have my eyes seen.

He saw the King who is called -YHWH- How know we that for sure? Well immediately a seraf came and made him purify.

What said Jesus?
40 "He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
41 These things said Isaiah when he saw His glory and spoke of Him.

Jesus is clear: He said: Isaiah saw me.. in my full glory..and he knows that I AM..

Why fell all at ground when they seek Jesus in the Getsemane? because Jesus said
4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come on him, went forth, and said to them, Whom seek you? 5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said to them, I am (he). And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. 6 As soon then as he had said to them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

All fell at the ground. Why because Jesus revealed Him self with His divine name.. ego eimi.. or.. I am..the word he is never written in the Greek text.

If you want to know who Christ is.. look at the Old Testament...

Two questions

Who was the God of Israel in the OT?

And why did the Jews who had all the OT scriptures not believe that the coming Messiah would be God Himself

 

[Dutch41]

Two questions

Who was the God of Israel in the OT?

And why did the Jews who had all the OT scriptures not believe that the coming Messiah would be God Himself

First answer YHWH..

Second answer with an other question: are you sure about this?
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]"Hear, O Israel, Adonai Eloheinu Adonai is one. These three are one. How can the three Names be one? Only through the perception of faith; in the vision of the Holy Spirit, in the beholding of the hidden eye alone.…So it is with the mystery of the threefold Divine manifestations designated by Adonai Eloheinu Adonai—three modes which yet form one unity." (Zohar II:43b. vol 3)[/SIZE][/FONT]

And this is an interesting commentary too:
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Sans-serif,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Rabbi Samuel Bar Hanman in the name of Rabbi Jonathan said, that at the time when Moses wrote the Torah, writing a portion of it daily, when he came to the verse which says, "And Elohim said, let us make man in our image after our likeness," Moses said, "Master of the universe, why do you give here with an excuse to the sectarians (who believe in the Tri-unity of God)" God answered Moses, "You write and whoever wants to err, let him err." (Midrash Rabbah on Genesis 1:26)

[/SIZE][/FONT]The sectarians are what we called the Messianic Jews.

More interesting is the Memra (Aramaic word for Word of God) And when you investigate this in the OT you can only say... Jesus is God