Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

again... vs 9-10 isnt speaken about God.. but about YHWH. Or is each YHWH called God? For you to made it simple: YHWH said I: YOu shall know that YHWH hath sent me.. Don't made circle's

Ohhh and for you to understand:

Easy question:
-Who is speak here
-Who is sent?
-Who hath sent?

I am finding it difficult to follow you here. Could you use the names for Father and son as written in the kjv or niv please

Tell me nobody saw the Father.. Did Christ see the Father?

No-one has seen the Father except the one who is from God, only he has seen the Father
John 6:46

Well.. I gave you just the Words of Paul, and John..and not an opinion of man..and I gave you the Opinion from the Bible.

Well according to John, no man has seen God and according to Paul Christ is not God Himself That is not my opinion but their own words

Answers above

Red33 · Apr 13, 2011

Jn 5:20-24

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on HIM that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I don't see the Son shorting Himself from His Father in works, nor in raising the dead and especially not in honor (notice v.23).

In (v.24) the Son is encouraging man to believe upon the Father through the word of the Son and by doing that they will have everlasting life. Some do not want to give this verse any credence to the context of their faith because they are mentally stuck on an abstract faith that discredits Jesus Christ from being the one true God, who is not a reflection of the Father but the expressed image of His person. This means that their is no separation or division between them, they have the same glory and they are one in every way and to see the Son was to see the Father.

If all judgment has been committed to the Son and the Father judges no man, that would indicate that the Son might be greater in His ability and function to execute judgment over man. First Christ judged all sin on the cross (If the Father relinquished all judgment to the Son, and we see that judgment of the believer and church (Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10, James 2:13), over the wicked (Jude 15, 2Pt 2:3, Rom 2:5,6, Rev 20:11-15), of the nations (Mt 25:31-46) and over every living and dead creature from above and from below (Phil 2;10, Acts 10:42, 2Tim 4:1, 1Pt 4:5, Rev 5:13).

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Red33 said:

Jn 5:20-24

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on HIM that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I don't see the Son shorting Himself from His Father in works, nor in raising the dead and especially not in honor (notice v.23).

In (v.24) the Son is encouraging man to believe upon the Father through the word of the Son and by doing that they will have everlasting life. Some do not want to give this verse any credence to the context of their faith because they are mentally stuck on an abstract faith that discredits Jesus Christ from being the one true God, who is not a reflection of the Father but the expressed image of His person.

And some do not give credence to the following plain verses of scripture

The Father is greater than I John 14:28

The Father is greater than all John 10:29

As no Trinitarian believes Christ is the Father I would say that verse is very plain

That they may know you(the Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John 17:3

And from the same author

No-one has seen God
1 John 4:12

It is simply wrong to say people do not give credence to certain verses of scripture when the author of such words is most guilty of the very thing he is accusing others of

This means that their is no separation or division between them, they have the same glory and they are one in every way and to see the Son was to see the Father.

If all judgment has been committed to the Son and the Father judges no man, that would indicate that the Son might be greater in His ability and function to execute judgment over man. First Christ judged all sin on the cross (If the Father relinquished all judgment to the Son, and we see that judgment of the believer and church (Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10, James 2:13), over the wicked (Jude 15, 2Pt 2:3, Rom 2:5,6, Rev 20:11-15), of the nations (Mt 25:31-46) and over every living and dead creature from above and from below (Phil 2;10, Acts 10:42, 2Tim 4:1, 1Pt 4:5, Rev 5:13).

Answers above

Red33 · Apr 13, 2011

Insecure / Introspective / Isolated / Independent - These are all from the old man Adam and represent death (1Cor 15:22, Eph 4:22)

These are the words that can describe any one of us who are saved but live making a provision for the flesh (Rom 13:14). It started in the garden with Adam and his wife Eve when they ate of the tree and became aware of their nakedness and hid themselves among the trees of the garden (Gen 3).

Insecure... if we fear man it becomes a snare (Prov 29:25) or make flesh our arm (Jer 17:5)

Introspective... if we look within or we compete and compare ourselves with others which is not wise (Jer 17:9, 2Cor 10:12)

Isolated... if we separate ourselves from others instead of gathering (Mt 12:30, Eph 3:18-20, Acts 15:30, 20:8, Lk 24:33, 2Thes 2:1)

Independant... if we become hurt and wounded through pride and selfishness (1Tim 3:6, 6:9, Lk 1:51, Jm 4:6, 1Pt 5:5, Prov 13:10)

Jesus Christ, the only one true and living God, came from His throne on high in heaven to set us free from all these things that come from Adam and the old sin nature. Jesus Christ came to not only destroy the works of the devil (1Jn 3:8) but to crucify the flesh of man with its affections and lusts (Gal 5:24). God was manifest in the flesh and was made unto the likeness of sinful flesh to condemn sin in the flesh (Rom 8:3) so that we would not make any more provision for the flesh (Rom 13:14). When we make a provision for the flesh in our understanding of who Christ is we bring Him down to the level of our flesh and do not recognize that He is the one and only true God that was manifest in the flesh, crucified and resurrected from the grave. God did not just die for us through His Son but died as us so that the flesh of man could be crucified and man could be free of these things mentioned above (Gal 1:4, Eph 5:2, Rom 6:6, 1Thes 5:10, Titus 2:14, 1Pt 3:18, Gal 2:20) having no confidence in the flesh (Phil 3:3).

PneumaPsucheSoma · Apr 13, 2011

Red33 said:

Jn 5:20-24

20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on HIM that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

I don't see the Son shorting Himself from His Father in works, nor in raising the dead and especially not in honor (notice v.23).

In (v.24) the Son is encouraging man to believe upon the Father through the word of the Son and by doing that they will have everlasting life. Some do not want to give this verse any credence to the context of their faith because they are mentally stuck on an abstract faith that discredits Jesus Christ from being the one true God, who is not a reflection of the Father but the expressed image of His person. This means that their is no separation or division between them, they have the same glory and they are one in every way and to see the Son was to see the Father.

If all judgment has been committed to the Son and the Father judges no man, that would indicate that the Son might be greater in His ability and function to execute judgment over man. First Christ judged all sin on the cross (If the Father relinquished all judgment to the Son, and we see that judgment of the believer and church (Rom 14:10, 2Cor 5:10, James 2:13), over the wicked (Jude 15, 2Pt 2:3, Rom 2:5,6, Rev 20:11-15), of the nations (Mt 25:31-46) and over every living and dead creature from above and from below (Phil 2;10, Acts 10:42, 2Tim 4:1, 1Pt 4:5, Rev 5:13).

"God...hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son... who being... the express image of HIS person (substance - singular: hupostasis G5287)..." -Heb. 1:1-3

Jesus... was... God's... OWN... singular... hupostasis (substance)... manifest... in... the... flesh... ; NOT a second of three "persons".

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Red33 said:

And there are those who can ream off scripture but in their hearts do not seek the glory for God, but rather to be revered and praised by man. What does the bible say concerning such people?

If I were still trying to please man I could not be a servant of Christ
Gal 1:10

Hoiw can you believe if you accept praise from one another yet make no effort to obtain praise that comes from the only God
John 5:44

Who is the true disciple with nothing false about them?

He who speaks on his own does so to gain honour for himself, but he who works for the honour of the one who sent him is a man of TRUTH, and there is nothing false about him
John 7:18&19

And sad to say unbiblical beliefs inevitably follow the examples of people who have the mindset of the first two scriptures given, for how can someone know truth if they do not love God enough to seek his glory but rather praise from man

And so a hollow Christianity must surely follow. One from the head, not from the heart.

And strange beliefs inevitably follow-such as

satan and his confederates had the power to keep God Himself in the grave for three days

Can you give me scripture to back up this belief Red?

You do not need to repent at conversion,

Can you give me scripture to back up this belief also?

People who say they can speak/pray in tongues are the majority of the time in all probability being led by satan/demons

Can I have scripture for this belief too?

When I ask you if ten years after a conversion experiance a person has throughout that time beat their wife, continuously got drunk, had multiple affairs and never read the Bible in your opinion could they be in a saved state?

Most times you didn't reply but when you did, you suggested they may well be in a saved state

Do you get this belief from scripture?

And then you demand a belief that is not written in the Bible for a person to have eternal life
And if people do simply stand on what the Bible says is the neccessary belief to have eternal life you call them heretics, they are possessed by the spirit of antichrist, they are condemned and can have no eternal life

Maybe you will convince some, but personally I don''t see how the above beliefs can be Holy Spirit led.

The Pharisees couldn't understand the truth or accept the true Gospel? Why? They were a proud people. They loved the praise of man more than the praise of God.

But they sure could recite scripture. They could ream it off. They knew the literal words better than anyone.

But they never knew the truth, and they spent much time condemning others.

Have things changed much in two thousand years?

Red33 · Apr 13, 2011

livingbygrace said:

And there are those who can ream off scripture but in their hearts do not seek the glory for God, but rather to be revered and praised by man. What does the bible say concerning such people?

If I were still trying to please man I could not be a servant of Christ
Gal 1:10

Hoiw can you believe if you accept praise from one another yet make no effort to obtain praise that comes from the only God
John 5:44

Who is the true disciple with nothing false about them?

He who speaks on his own does so to gain honour for himself, but he who works for the honour of the one who sent him is a man of TRUTH, and there is nothing false about him
John 7:18&19

And sad to say unbiblical beliefs inevitably follow the examples of people who have the mindset of the first two scriptures given, for how can someone know truth if they do not love God enough to seek his glory but rather praise from man

And so a hollow Christianity must surely follow. One from the head, not from the heart.

And strange beliefs inevitably follow-such as

satan and his confederates had the power to keep God Himself in the grave for three days

Can you give me scripture to back up this belief Red?

You do not need to repent at conversion,

Can you give me scripture to back up this belief also?

People who say they can speak/pray in tongues are the majority of the time in all probability being led by satan/demons

Can I have scripture for this belief too?

When I ask you if ten years after a conversion experiance a person has throughout that time beat their wife, continuously got drunk, had multiple affairs and never read the Bible in your opinion could they be in a saved state?

Most times you didn't reply but when you did, you suggested they may well be in a saved state

Do you get this belief from scripture?

And then you demand a belief that is not written in the Bible for a person to have eternal life
And if people do simply stand on what the Bible says is the neccessary belief to have eternal life you call them heretics, they are possessed by the spirit of antichrist, they are condemned and can have no eternal life

Maybe you will convince some, but personally I don''t see how the above beliefs can be Holy Spirit led.

The Pharisees couldn't understand the truth or accept the true Gospel? Why? They were a proud people. They loved the praise of man more than the praise of God.

But they sure could recite scripture. They could ream it off. They knew the literal words better than anyone.

But they never knew the truth, and they spent much time condemning others.

Have things changed much in two thousand years?

'If anyone needed a justifiable strong drink to ease your troubled heart, you do! I think that if you took one at this stage of your life that God just might not think it to be sin and let it slide with no repentance needed. No one else should get any ideas from this!'

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Red33 said:

Such maturity from someone who believes themselves raised up as a minister/preacher of the word leaves me speechless, there's a first!

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

Savedbygrace and Dutch41 said:

Of course, and I will help you.. We can see YHWH is (like Elohim) two different persons. (And not only here)

8 For thus saith the YHWH of hosts: (YHWH 1 is talking here) "After the glory hath He(YHWH 2) sent me(YHWH 1) unto the nations which despoiled you, for he(YHWH 2) that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His (YHWH 2)eye.
9 For behold, I (YHWH 1)will shake Mine hand (YHWH 1) upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants. And ye shall know that the YHWH(YHWH 2) of hosts hath sent Me(YHWH 1) .

What is here written? YHWH 1 said that YHWH 2 sent Him. That is strange. YHWH said.. He was sending by YHWH..
And when we read the Bible.. and discover the context we can say.. YHWH 1 here a Person is talking who we know later in the Bible as Jesus. And the 2e YHWH is the Father.

Yes?? So, Jesus saw God? Than we have a point that we agree. Why did Christ see the Father? Because He was with God and He is God (John 1:1-3) It is not so

Well John said in 1:3 The Word is God, can it be more clear? Paul said in Phil 2:6 Jesus is God. And if I am correct said Paul in Rom 9:5 Christ came, who is over all God blessed for ever.

But I will gave you another point what you can think about: When John the Baptist was in prison.. He started to doubt.. See Mt 11

2 Now when John had heard in prison of the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,3 and they said unto Him, "Art thou He that should come, or do we look for another?"4 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Go and show John again those things which ye hear and see:5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have the Gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he whosoever shall not be offended in Me."

Who expected John the Baptist? He knew it.. because he had made the path for Him.. Was it a human.. or an angel?? Or God Himself made in Flesh..
Jesus quote Isaiah 35:5-6

."5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.6 Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing; for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
But who expected John? Well to understand this.. we have to read the context of Isaiah 35:5 and that is of course Isaiah 4

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, "Be strong, fear not. Behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompense; He will come and save you.

So actually Jesus prove by His signs and wonders at John who He is. And actually He said.. John yes, I am Your God… who had come to save you.

wakeup · Apr 13, 2011

Red33 said:

JESUS is flesh; GOD is spirit; JESUS died; GOD rose him. GOD never died.
JESUS is the image; GOD is GOD: he is not the image of anybody.
JESUS walked on earth; GOD is in heaven; his spirit is in JESUS.
the WORD spoke to adam and eve,in paradise.but GOD is in heaven.
GOD came down on mt.sinai,and it scorch the mountain.the flesh can not see GOD or we die,but we can see the image of GOD in the flesh. GOD is not coming at the second coming,but the WORD of GOD rev.19:13. the WORD is given all power by GOD.
GOD tells us the worship the WORD;that makes the the WORD, GOD. but he is still not the father, he is still the word of GOD. to preach that GOD died, does not make GOD happy.GOD has never taste death,but the second adam that GOD had created died.

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Dutch41 said:

Of course, and I will help you.. We can see YHWH is (like Elohim) two different persons. (And not only here)

8 For thus saith the YHWH of hosts: (YHWH 1 is talking here) "After the glory hath He(YHWH 2) sent me(YHWH 1) unto the nations which despoiled you, for he(YHWH 2) that toucheth you toucheth the apple of His (YHWH 2)eye.
9 For behold, I (YHWH 1)will shake Mine hand (YHWH 1) upon them, and they shall be a spoil to their servants. And ye shall know that the YHWH(YHWH 2) of hosts hath sent Me(YHWH 1) .

What is here written? YHWH 1 said that YHWH 2 sent Him. That is strange. YHWH said.. He was sending by YHWH..
And when we read the Bible.. and discover the context we can say.. YHWH 1 here a Person is talking who we know later in the Bible as Jesus. And the 2e YHWH is the Father.
What I meant was I was hoping you would use the words God and Lord. If you can use the KJV for these verses it will be easier for me to follow, sorry but I am not a learned person

Yes?? So, Jesus saw God? Than we have a point that we agree. Why did Christ see the Father? Because He was with God and He is God (John 1:1-3) It is not so

It is so that Christ was with the Father, but you have to statrt from the plainest of verses onm this subject and work from there. Now, John who had lived with Christ for three years said.
No-one has seen God.
He did not say
No one has seen God the Father but they have seen God the son
No-one has seen God

Therefore
In the begining was the word(Christ) and the word was with/besides God, and the word(itself) was God. He was with/besides God from the begining

Well John said in 1:3 The Word is God, can it be more clear?
Yes, Christ speaks the words of God. God's word is spoken through his son

The Lord said to me
What they say is good. I will raise up from them a prophet like you from among their brothers. I WILL PUT MY WORDS IN HIS MOUTH AND HE WILL TELL THEM EVERYTHING I COMMAND HIM. IF ANYONE DOES NOT LISTEN TO MY WORDS THAT THE PROPHET SPEAKS IN MY NAME, I WILL CALL HIM TO ACCOUNT
Duet 18:17&18
Notice, the words would be spoken in God's name.

I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me
John 8:28

Paul said in Phil 2:6 Jesus is God. And if I am correct said Paul in Rom 9:5 Christ came, who is over all God blessed for ever.

No, in Phil 2:6 Paul said Christ had the nature of God, but in verse 8 Christ DID NOT consider equality with God saomething to be grasped.
Tell me. What was the bait used by the serpent to get Eve to eat the apple in Gen 3:5?
Equality with God. Eve ate. then did Adam, but the second Adam did not seek equality and what was the result?
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name above every name
that at the name of jesus , everty knee should bow
In Heaven and on earth and under the earth
And every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord
TO THE GLORY OF GOD, THE FATHER

But I will gave you another point what you can think about: When John the Baptist was in prison.. He started to doubt.. See Mt 11

2 Now when John had heard in prison of the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples,3 and they said unto Him, "Art thou He that should come, or do we look for another?"4 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Go and show John again those things which ye hear and see:5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have the Gospel preached to them. 6 And blessed is he whosoever shall not be offended in Me."

Who expected John the Baptist? He knew it.. because he had made the path for Him.. Was it a human.. or an angel?? Or God Himself made in Flesh..
Jesus quote Isaiah 35:5-6

."5 Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped.6 Then shall the lame man leap as a hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing; for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert.
But who expected John? Well to understand this.. we have to read the context of Isaiah 35:5 and that is of course Isaiah 4

4 Say to them that are of a fearful heart, "Be strong, fear not. Behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompense; He will come and save you.

So actually Jesus prove by His signs and wonders at John who He is. And actually He said.. John yes, I am Your God… who had come to save you

Two things. One you have to be sure who is speaking in Isiaih, God through Christ, or Christ as the God of Israel

As for who John believed Christ to be

Whoever believes in THE SON has eternal life, but whoever rejects THE SON will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him
John 3:36

.

Now in fairness I will shortly put some questions to you. That is fair isn't it? Only some only want to ask questions, not answer them, I am sure you are not like that

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

livingbygrace said:

Of course you can .. but it is an other time that I am going to answer... because here it is time to go to bed.. and tomorrow I have a lot of work..

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Dutch41 said:

A certain ruler asked him
Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
Why do you call me good, Jesus answered. No-one is good but God alone
Luke 18:18&19

Would you say that Christ is claiming here to be the one true God?

Therefore God exlted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name
That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord
To the Glory of God the Father

So if Christ is the one true God, did God therefore exalt Himself to the highest place and give Himself a name that was above every name so he may be glorified?

But about the son he says
Your throne O'God will last forever and ever
And rightewousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions and annointede you with the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9

So, if Christ is the one true God, is it true that because God loved righteousness and hated wickedness he set himself above his companions and annointed himself with the oil of joy?

And the one true God(God Himself) must refer to someone as My God

The Lord said to my Lord
Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1

So if Christ is the one true God, did God say to himself that he was to sit at his own right hand until he had put all his enemies under his own feet?

If you receiver authority from someone, isn't it true that the person who gives authority is greater than than the person who receives authority from them?

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

Well I am sure you have the King James.. and instead the word of YHWH you can use the word LORD.

This text prove that YHWH is talking and He is sent by YHWH.. like Isaiah saw YHWH in Isaiah 6

Am I correct if you said: Jesus didn't saw God? If that is true.. I think I will use my Dutch Bible

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.

Come one.. read your Bible. You want that I read 1cor 15:24-28 too.. And please don't change the word
Okee.. if we agree that Christ is the Word, change the Word into Christ.
And did you read Rom 9:5?

Yes? and?? We are talking here about the man Jesus (John 1;14, Phil 2:6-8)

Yes did you read the Hebrew Scripture?? there you can find the answer..

Hebr 2:7, 5:7-9

Interesting because my Dutch Bible said Hij heeft de gestalte van God, and the word gestalte= the Greek Morphe.. What mean He was God. He got the form of God- and He took the form of a servant..
So tell me.. If Jesus got the form of God.. and He took the form of a servant.. Paul didn't say Nature.. read the text please.

I can't find that Eve eat the apple.. But no that was a joke.. (sorry, just teasing you)... But livebygrace.. there is never written.. Eve and Adam you are equal at us. That I can´t find even..
But interesting is Elohim is telling this.. and He use the word US... (vs 22) What is that US????

He said: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Is that answer your question..Not the man is equal as us.. He is one as US to know good and evil..
Read your bible..

I am sure who is talking agains Isaiah. I think you made your self in a real difficult position to magic who is talking here. Read it.. it is there written... so easy.

But savedbygrace there much more evidence.. Can you tell me.. Who is Elohim in Gen 1:1-3 and why is He talking in plurality.. Ohh and please dont come with the answer: He is doing that because the plural majestici..

And now I have really go to bed.. I can sleep 5 hours

Dutch41 · Apr 13, 2011

livingbygrace said:

A certain ruler asked him
Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?
Why do you call me good, Jesus answered. No-one is good but God alone
Luke 18:18&19

Would you say that Christ is claiming here to be the one true God?

Therefore God exlted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name
That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord
To the Glory of God the Father

So if Christ is the one true God, did God therefore exalt Himself to the highest place and give Himself a name that was above every name so he may be glorified?

But about the son he says
Your throne O'God will last forever and ever
And rightewousness will be a sceptre of your kingdom
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness
Therefore GOD, YOUR GOD has set you above your companions and annointede you with the oil of joy
Heb 1:8&9

So, if Christ is the one true God, is it true that because God loved righteousness and hated wickedness he set himself above his companions and annointed himself with the oil of joy?

And the one true God(God Himself) must refer to someone as My God

The Lord said to my Lord
Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet
Psalm 110:1

So if Christ is the one true God, did God say to himself that he was to sit at his own right hand until he had put all his enemies under his own feet?

If you receiver authority from someone, isn't it true that the person who gives authority is greater than than the person who receives authority from them?

I will answer this I hope tomorrow or it will be Friday...

Good night

freeIndeeed · Apr 13, 2011

the Word was God

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

Dutch41 said:

Well I am sure you have the King James.. and instead the word of YHWH you can use the word LORD.

This text prove that YHWH is talking and He is sent by YHWH.. like Isaiah saw YHWH in Isaiah 6

Am I correct if you said: Jesus didn't saw God? If that is true.. I think I will use my Dutch Bible
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.

Come one.. read your Bible. You want that I read 1cor 15:24-28 too.. And please don't change the word
Okee.. if we agree that Christ is the Word, change the Word into Christ.
?
Christ is the word of God, but the word itself is God's word, spoken through the son. Why is this so hard to understand?
You say I change the word? I have given you plain words of scripture that say Christ is not God Himself
And did you read Rom 9:5?

Whose are the fathers and of whom as concerning the flesh of Christcame, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen
Rom 9:5

What is this proving?

Yes? and?? We are talking here about the man Jesus (John 1;14, Phil 2:6-8)

And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father
John 1:14

What is this proving?
Yes did you read the Hebrew Scripture?? there you can find the answer..

Hebr 2:7, 5:7-9

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels, thou crownedst him with glory and honour and didst set him over the works of thy hands
Heb 2:7
So are you saying that God made himself lower than the angels then crowned himself with glory and honour and set himself over the work of his own hands?
Is that the answer you want me to find? Is this truly your belief?

Interesting because my Dutch Bible said Hij heeft de gestalte van God, and the word gestalte= the Greek Morphe.. What mean He was God. He got the form of God- and He took the form of a servant..
So tell me.. If Jesus got the form of God.. and He took the form of a servant.. Paul didn't say Nature.. read the text please.

I agree, Christ had the form of God, he was the EXACT representation of the Fathers being Heb 1:3
How does this make any difference?

I can't find that Eve eat the apple.. But no that was a joke.. (sorry, just teasing you)... But livebygrace.. there is never written.. Eve and Adam you are equal at us. That I can´t find even..
But interesting is Elohim is telling this.. and He use the word US... (vs 22) What is that US????

He said: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

I think if Adam and Eve believed they would be as gods(KJV) they would have thought of this as equality with God.

Is that answer your question..Not the man is equal as us.. He is one as US to know good and evil..
Read your bible..

I am sure who is talking agains Isaiah. I think you made your self in a real difficult position to magic who is talking here. Read it.. it is there written... so easy.

I am not in a difficult position. The problem with Isiaih and peoples interpretation of it is understanding when God is speaking through the son
You are in an impossible position according to the words of Paul, let me repeat again

When it says that everything has been put under him IT IS CLEAR THAT THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD HIMSELF WHPO PUT EVERYTHING UNDER CHRIST

But you will not accept what Paul wrote will you? So doubtless you will not accept what I write either, and Paul knew better than us the OT scrkiptures you refer to

But savedbygrace there much more evidence.. Can you tell me.. Who is Elohim in Gen 1:1-3 and why is He talking in plurality.. Ohh and please dont come with the answer: He is doing that because the plural majestici..

Well I go by the kjv or the NIV. BVerse one speaks of God. Verse two speaks of thespirit of God. Verse three speaks of God
And now I have really go to bed.. I can sleep 5 hours

But I am afraid like all others who believe as you do you dismiss the plainest of verses on this subject, it is always the same. Instead you rely on in depth reading of various scriptures that do not say.
Christ is God Himself' and convince yourselves he is.

Christ plainly said there was one true God, the Father

Paul said

Yet for us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER FROM WHO all things came and FOR WHOM we live and ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST THROUGH WHOM all things came and THROUGH WHOM we live
1 Cor 8:6

Red33 · Apr 13, 2011

freeIndeeed said:

Simple, direct and penetrating. If you take a few minutes and meditate on just those four words it is amazing what the Holy Spirit impresses upon the heart.

THE WORD WAS GOD...

livingbygrace · Apr 13, 2011

freeIndeeed said:

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the WORD OF GOD
The armies of Heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron sceptre
He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written
Kiong of Kings and Lord of Lords
Rev 19:13-16

journey41 · Apr 13, 2011

[

[/QUOTE]They are blocked and wont understand no matter what. Only God can reveal this simple truth. They love God, there is no doubt and fully committed to him, but the church doctrine in there is so strong. The truth is so simple to us, yet confusing for others. I went to a church once, they tried to teach me this. I was in a head spin for 6 months. Why? Because it didn't compute what they were saying. I thought there was something wrong with me why I couldn't "get it" In the end, it was because God didn't lead me to a lie. It's rock solid now. Will never be swayed. It is truth that Jesus is the son of God, and the words that God speaks is in him. Everything that comes out of Jesus mouth is God talking. Thats why he is called the Word of God. He is Gods vessel. This does not bring Jesus down. This lifts him. Who else is holy & worthy enough to hold this position? No one. Who else lived in the flesh and showed us that sin could be conquered by obeying Gods will?

In my opinion it is more harder to sacrafice a child than yourself. Any one of us would glady put our lives before our children. Abraham was willing to do this for God. God never told him to sacrifice himself. but the son he loved so much. Satan would of destroyed this earth if God was dead for three days. God is the one that restrains him.

Red, you are so sure of this. You absolutely, completely, undeniably believe this with all your heart. You accuse us of being antichrist. Be careful of your words. If you are wrong, you will certainly be red faced and will have a lot to answer for, because you obstructed the truth. I suggest you look at the evidence given to you and stop skipping around it. If God has led you to believe a lie then you must look deep into your soul and position in Christ and put God first in your heart instead of pride.

Jesus Christ was God manifest in the Flesh

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