Not By Works

[Phoneman-777]

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We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. ​

(2 Corinthians 5:8) ​

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no one ever died in Christ's presence

Everyone who uses this verse to support the heresy of "thou shalt not SURELY die" forgets a very important component of 2 Corinthians 5 - the part Paul mentions about being "naked" and "unclothed" - a state of which the dead are without a body...and at what time is that? Dead and in the grave and awaiting our heavenly body which is given when Jesus descends with "the trumpet of God". This same Paul knew full well this when he wrote to the Corinthians "at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptable, and we shall be changed...for this corruptable (fleshly body) must put on incorruption (spiritual body)..."

People take Paul's desire to skip the part about waiting "unclothed" and "naked' in the grave and instead go straight to be in the presence of Jesus as a discounting of what he already knew full well...by his OWN testimony, he plainly teaches that he did not expect to put on eternal life until the trumpet sounds.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Why are you acting like I didn't explain it to you?

I thought you were explaining things to yourself.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Self Salvationist ^^^^

Guess you missed that part about "...in Christ's power..." huh?

I finally figured it out...You OSAS folks think salvation grants divine status...that we become Omnipresent, right?

OSAS essentially says I can simultaneously walk further and further away from God while remaining safe and secure in the palm of His hand.

 

[azamzimtoti]

The twelve tribes, not former tribe members. Words are important.

 

[Phoneman-777]

The believe says we are saved by living faith

living faith works

your wrong and bearing false witness,

ie, your braking the law

OSAS doesn't know the least thing about living faith. It teaches that we may by dead faith obtain that which can only be obtained by living faith: eternal life. OSAS wants to show us faith without works, but Righteousness by Faith agrees with James..it's demonstrated by works.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Read it through. Not one word of hatred against Jews or a call for their persecution....I did read a lot of condemnation of their beliefs and practices, which is well deserved.

You seem too have missed "First set fire to their synagogues..." at the very least.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Thank God I am kept by God and not I keep God.

God only keeps those who allow Him to keep them. He's a Shepherd, not a Cattle Driver.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You seem too have missed "First set fire to their synagogues..." at the very least.

Is that in "On The Jews And Their Lies"? If so, which page? It's not there.

 

[PennEd]

Is that in "On The Jews And Their Lies"? If so, which page? It's not there.

Small wonder a works to earn, and or maintain Salvation guy, doesn't see THIS as hateful writings against Jewish people:

On the Jews and Their Lies[edit]
Main article: On the Jews and Their Lies
In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[14] They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine."[15] The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."[16] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[17] afforded no legal protection,[18] and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[19] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them".[20] Luther claims that Jewish history was "assailed by much heresy", and that Christ swept away the Jewish heresy and goes on to do so, "as it still does daily before our eyes." He stigmatizes Jewish Prayer as being "blasphemous" and a lie, and vilifies Jews in general as being spiritually "blind" and "surely possessed by all devils." Luther has a special spiritual problem with Jewish circumcision.[21][self-published source?][22] The full context in which Martin Luther advocated that Jews be slain in On the Jews and Their Lies is as follows in Luther's own words:

There is no other explanation for this than the one cited earlier from Moses - namely, that God has struck [the Jews] with 'madness and blindness and confusion of mind' [Deuteronomy 28:28]. So we are even at fault in not avenging all this innocent blood of our Lord and of the Christians which they shed for three hundred years after the destruction of Jerusalem, and the blood of the children they have shed since then (which still shines forth from their eyes and their skin). We are at fault in not slaying them.[23]​

 

[CherieR]

And the person you once trusted will not forsake you even though your trust is gone.

I find this song encouraging. Particularly the part referring to a parable Jesus told of the lost sheep in Luke 15.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Is that in "On The Jews And Their Lies"? If so, which page? It's not there.

Page? I'm not sure the treatise has standardized pages, but it's in there. And it's just one of a long list of similar vitriol. How did you read it?

 

[azamzimtoti]

......

Sorry dude, I've spent years on other forums trying to discuss the bible with 7th Day Ads. No point while you have the Ellen White specs glued to ya face.

You'd be better on an SDA forum patting yaselves on the back while attempting to keep the sabbath.

 

[azamzimtoti]

Self Salvationist ^^^^

Not the dreaded SS argggh

 

[VCO]

No where? So, the Jewish commentators are wrong when claiming that the "Day of Atonement is the day of Judgment"? To the contrary, it most certainly IS. The trumpets blew ten days before, the people afflicted themselves, confessing their sins and ensuring they were covered by the blood of the lamb, and on the Day of Atonement, the nation was judged, and those who were found guilty were cut off from the nation.

What is heretical is to DENY this being the case. The Feast Days have to do with Christ's first and second advent, the first four with His coming as a Lamb, and the last three as a Lion. Please put down the milk and get into the meat of prophecy, friend.

DON'T YOU KNOW, THE SEVEN FEASTS OF ISRAEL ARE PICTURE PROPHESIES OF JESUS CHRIST, AND CHRIST WILL HAVE FULFILLED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE THEM.

 

[14meatcc]

God only keeps those who allow Him to keep them. He's a Shepherd, not a Cattle Driver.

You can not be a Sheppard without having sheep

 

[14meatcc]

You can not be a Sheppard without having sheep

And the day my will override God's will I won't need Him

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I'm on this thread because there are those here (as well as the owner of the thread) who believe as I do. It is comforting to me to be able to converse with one another of like minds about our faith. If you feel that this site and this thread is being used by Satan to sow discord and division, why are you on it?

Division and discord come about whenever false doctrine, twisting the Word of God, trolls and unbelivers posing as believers come on board.

I never said the thread is satanic, I said in a moment of weakness we can all be instruments of death. There are only two choices in life; one you are adding to the Kingdom of God and the other is death / Satan. No grey area. If I read some of the replies on this thread I can’t always see Jesus… Jesus did not run away after he rebuked Peter. If you want me to run away you can get somebody to ban me.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If you belive the above drivel then you belive in numerous gospels, believe in coddling false teachers, believe in ecumenical works, deny the fact there is one gospel of salvation and by default sow discord, division, disunity while chunking Jesus under the bus! THIS thread is about biblical salvation...there is NO LAW GRACE WORKS BLEND salvation in the bible.....and to be honest, it not only sickens me that you said the above crap, but that you fail to see the error of those that devalue faith, Jesus, his promises, power and work on our behalf by the false crap the workers for, self faith maintainers and salvation losers peddle in THIS THREAD!

My friend, from getting to know you over the years I know your heart is in the right place… but also that you wear it on your sleeve .

I don’t believe in numerous gospels. Show me one post where I said your works can safe you (unless you are perfect)? I will put it on record that once you have Christ your works will change for the better, but without Christ even our good works are filthy rags. We have one gospel, I just read both Testaments and look for treasures in the Old as well as the New. We have people that think to read Leviticus is a waste of time. I don’t. I try to see what God is teaching us and incorporate it in my life. If that is wrong then I am wrong, but from what I have learned the last couple of years I know I am not wrong and therefor won’t be deterred by outburst like this.

Like I said, we are either building God’s Kingdom by the way we act or we are trying to destroy it. I know I was guilty of being wrong before in saying things I shouldn’t. This was not one of the times. Maybe we have the perfect few on this website, I know I am not one of them and therefor I need grace.

I have said it before and will say it again and again and again; grace is not a New Testament concept. It was there from the first second God created the heaven and earth.

Biblical salvation? The word teaches us that everything is about Christ. Even the Old Testament. If we can’t find Him there we are reading it wrong. He is in everything. Even the brazen altar in the tabernacle. Every detail in the Old Testament is shouting Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.

God bless friends.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Not all are brothers in Christ... there is no vetting of the people that join this site.

Quite the opposite, the thread works to shelter and protect the true gospel against its adversaries.

The law of Christ is not your adversary and form part of the true gospel. If you don't see it, you are reading it wrong.

God bless

 

[mailmandan]

again, the wicked servant in Matthew 18 is not a 'saved man'

Amen! In the parable of the unforgiving, unmerciful servant in this hypothetical situation, forgiveness of the enormous debt by the master who was moved with compassion was given despite the condition of the wicked servant's heart, but that is not how it works with our Master, Jesus Christ. The Lord isn't going to forgive unmerciful, unforgiving, wicked hearts no matter how much we beg and plead, then take back the gift and He also doesn’t order that our wife and children be sold in order to pay off the debt either. (vs. 25) We could fall to our knees all we want asking the Lord to be patient with us and we will pay back our enormous sin debt (vs. 26) but it's too huge to pay back, so that isn't going to work either.

Forgiveness of the huge debt was taken back by the master in the parable, who did not infallibly know that his servant had a wicked heart until it was later exposed, yet he was willing to show mercy and forgiveness just as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is willing to show mercy and forgiveness and the huge debt of the wicked servant was forgiven of his huge debt until his unforgiving nature was discovered. His master in this parable was a man who did not infallibly know his wicked servant's heart (unlike the Lord, Jesus Christ who infallibly knows our hearts) and did not realize that his servant was wicked until his heart was exposed by refusing to forgive his fellow servant in such a small matter. (vvs. 32-34) The moral of the parable is forgiveness and the condition of our heart and not salvation by grace through begging and pleading or type 2 works salvation.