So many anti charismatic smear jobs allowed?

[Guojing]

Salvation has always been by grace, through faith in God. God gives even New Testament Christians commandments, but we still sin. King David committed capital sin, for which no animal sacrifice could be offered, but the blood of Jesus atoned for this. Either King David went to hell, or salvation was always by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

David was circumcised, kept the Law imperfectly, offered animal sacrifices throughout his life.

If he missed out any of those, would he still have been saved?

 

[wolfwint]

Just the opposite.
You default AUTOMATICALLY INTO mocking and attacking charismatics INSPITE OF SCRIPTURE.

I do not mock and I am not attacking. Sorry If you are see it so. But according to what the writers of the NT wrote to the believers, I cant find Support for the from pentecostal/ chatismatic movements claim about the baptism with the Holy Spirit. And you cant find it practised before 1901, otherwise the pentecostal movement would call it not a new pentecost.

 

[bojack]

I do not mock and I am not attacking. Sorry If you are see it so. But according to what the writers of the NT wrote to the believers, I cant find Support for the from pentecostal/ chatismatic movements claim about the baptism with the Holy Spirit. And you cant find it practised before 1901, otherwise the pentecostal movement would call it not a new pentecost.

I believe you believe the gifts were done away with and no longer exist .. If you thought Jesus had a spiritual gift to give you would you want it ? And if you didn't know better would you seek it ?

 

[bojack]

So, let me see if I understand you correctly..... If I do not speak in tongues, then I am not saved.... because when we are saved and baptized, we receive the Holy Spirit... a gift from God.
That about sum it up?

I wouldn't be surprised if someone hadn't told you that, I've seen/heard it come up time after time too imo .. I believe speaking in tongues is an evidence as Paul wrote but also not all speak in tongues ..

 

[garee]

That's nonsensical. Peter was the apostle sent to Cornelius, not the other way around.

Yes sent by God beginning with Cornelius moved both

Its all one in the same work .God by a labor of His love sends one and gives his interpretation to the other. Two fold gift that edifies the gift giver. No self edification gospel of wonderment. They sent for Peter .The Holy Spirit empowering them. both

Acts 10: 3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

 

[garee]

Here is Peter speaking:

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


Notice verse 44, "heard the word, not the Gospel."

The gospel is the word of God. The revealing of the will of God. Without that perfect law no man could seek after him who has no form. The gospel from faith, the unseen to faith it quickens our souls giving us his understanding. The good news .

 

[KelbyofGod]

So, let me see if I understand you correctly..... If I do not speak in tongues, then I am not saved.... because when we are saved and baptized, we receive the Holy Spirit... a gift from God.
That about sum it up?

Your question is too inaccurately worded to be answered with a simple yes or no. I might be able to agree with the first part but not the second part.

What do you mean by "saved"?

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Dino246]

Yes sent by God beginning with Cornelius moved both

Its all one in the same work .God by a labor of His love sends one and gives his interpretation to the other. Two fold gift that edifies the gift giver. No self edification gospel of wonderment. They sent for Peter .The Holy Spirit empowering them. both

Acts 10: 3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

And Cornelius was mocking God and falling backward in self-edification, right?

 

[wolfwint]

I believe you believe the gifts were done away with and no longer exist .. If you thought Jesus had a spiritual gift to give you would you want it ? And if you didn't know better would you seek it ?

This is not true bojack. In my posts I dont deny spiritual gifts for today. And the Holy Spirit gave me already an Spiritual gift.
What I not believe is the pentecostal/ charismatic doctrine about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is taught since 1901.

 

[bojack]

This is not true bojack. In my posts I dont deny spiritual gifts for today. And the Holy Spirit gave me already an Spiritual gift.
What I not believe is the pentecostal/ charismatic doctrine about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is taught since 1901.

That's pleasing to know .. I know I was a born again Christian for a few years before I ever had hands laid on me to receive .. It took a while and I can see where some would give up instead of waiting on the Holy Spirit .. I began to speak in distinct syllables and words and I sat there just listening for a few minutes then it just cut off .. I also know some folks get offended because it either scares them or they just don't believe it to begin with .. I've got some powerful testimony through the years and so do many others .. There's a big difference between gifts of the Spirit and fruit of the Spirit imo ..

 

[Moses_Young]

David was circumcised,

Michelangelo would disagree...

kept the Law imperfectly, offered animal sacrifices throughout his life.
If he missed out any of those, would he still have been saved?

Circumcision and animal sacrifice don't give immunity from capital crimes. For some sins, such as murder and adultery, there was no sacrifice, for they carried the death sentence.

Yet God let David live. He could only do this, and be just, if there was a suitable sacrifice, and that was Jesus. So David's works had nothing to do with his salvation. It was all God's grace and David's faith in God's salvation.

 

[bojack]

David was circumcised, kept the Law imperfectly, offered animal sacrifices throughout his life.

If he missed out any of those, would he still have been saved?

I believe David was circumcised and that he also reaped what he sowed in this life .. All sin can be forgiven except one, yet nothing is impossible with God .. David was a man after God's own heart .. IMO Messiah was prophesied way before David ruled and also imo some had faith in Messiah the right way before Jesus was born so they believed too and were saved but waiting comfortably in Paradise for Jesus to finish His work on the cross .. David was a fearless player in the game and All-in for God ..

I like to think Jesus had a great childhood , good secure family , good jewish mother and father and jewish tradition .. I'd bet when Jesus was a young child He played and admired His GGGGGGGGGrandfather King David on His Mothers side and His legal adopted Fathers side too .. He certainly brought the greatest honor to all of them ..

 

[Moses_Young]

I like to think Jesus had a great childhood , good secure family , good jewish mother and father and jewish tradition .. I'd bet when Jesus was a young child He played and admired His GGGGGGGGGrandfather King David on His Mothers side and His legal adopted Fathers side too .. He certainly brought the greatest honor to all of them ..

I like what Jesus says about David. Matthew 22:44-46. Even David acknowledged Jesus was greater.

44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

 

[Guojing]

Michelangelo would disagree...

Circumcision and animal sacrifice don't give immunity from capital crimes. For some sins, such as murder and adultery, there was no sacrifice, for they carried the death sentence.

Yet God let David live. He could only do this, and be just, if there was a suitable sacrifice, and that was Jesus. So David's works had nothing to do with his salvation. It was all God's grace and David's faith in God's salvation.

I was talking about salvation. Your point about "such as murder and adultery, there was no sacrifice, for they carried the death sentence.", did you make that up yourself or do you have scripture to back that point?

 

[Guojing]

I believe David was circumcised and that he also reaped what he sowed in this life .. All sin can be forgiven except one, yet nothing is impossible with God .. David was a man after God's own heart .. IMO Messiah was prophesied way before David ruled and also imo some had faith in Messiah the right way before Jesus was born so they believed too and were saved but waiting comfortably in Paradise for Jesus to finish His work on the cross .. David was a fearless player in the game and All-in for God ..

I like to think Jesus had a great childhood , good secure family , good jewish mother and father and jewish tradition .. I'd bet when Jesus was a young child He played and admired His GGGGGGGGGrandfather King David on His Mothers side and His legal adopted Fathers side too .. He certainly brought the greatest honor to all of them ..

Yes, David had to obey the Law of Moses in order for him to show his faith to God, as James would state, faith without works is dead.

But now, we have the faith apart from works being revealed to us, after Christ's perfect obedience on the cross. That was not avaliable for David then, that is why he envied us and called us blessed, in Romans 4.

 

[Moses_Young]

I was talking about salvation. Your point about "such as murder and adultery, there was no sacrifice, for they carried the death sentence.", did you make that up yourself or do you have scripture to back that point?

David didn't offer sacrifices for his sins against Uriah and Bathsheba, because he couldn't. The sins carried the death penalty, and no sacrifice could be offered.

Leviticus 20:10
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Leviticus 24:17
17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.

Jesus has not arrived in the flesh yet in the OT, so your point about Jesus is irrelevant.

Don't you remember what Jesus said? "Before Abraham was, I AM!"

Jesus not arriving in the flesh didn't stop Abraham being credited with righteousness for believing God.

 

[Moses_Young]

Yes, David had to obey the Law of Moses in order for him to show his faith to God, as James would state, faith without works is dead.

David clearly didn't obey the Law of Moses, 'cause he killed a man and adulterated his wife!

 

[bojack]

Yes, David had to obey the Law of Moses in order for him to show his faith to God, as James would state, faith without works is dead.

But now, we have the faith apart from works being revealed to us, after Christ's perfect obedience on the cross. That was not avaliable for David then, that is why he envied us and called us blessed, in Romans 4.

David knew he was a sinner by the law, right and that he needed his sins covered .. others probably thought following the law covered them

 

[Moses_Young]

David knew he was a sinner by the law, right and that he needed his sins covered .. others probably thought following the law covered them

Even though they didn't actually keep it.

 

[bojack]

Yes, David had to obey the Law of Moses in order for him to show his faith to God, as James would state, faith without works is dead.

But now, we have the faith apart from works being revealed to us, after Christ's perfect obedience on the cross. That was not avaliable for David then, that is why he envied us and called us blessed, in Romans 4.

Agree but I still think the OT Saints were held in Paradise waiting on The Lamb of God was a similar faith in Jesus as now ..