Did Moses and Elijah rise from dead before Christ?
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Thanks for the reply.
I would suggest. God is supernatural without nature (beginning). Adding to it would make His Spirit desolate. The fall adding. . . form to sound. Destroys faith. Glory departs. God is not a man.
It could be important. I would offer mine .The revealing of their corruptipted dying flesh. The glowing glory of God's presence departed.
If the rebuilding takes away gender and fleshly nations as families, plural . Male and female, Jew and gentile as nations and possibly a carbon based dust. Then it reveals a person has been born again. The corruptible has put on the incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality.
The new creatures could of been like the beginning when the presence of the glory of God covered the glorious creation.
The whole creation moans under corruption.
So it will by glory in the new. . We holding out the gospel represent the glory Just as the Son of Man Jesus . The perfect sinless representative who worked with the father not seen. . strengthening Jesus seen .
In one way yes . We are infromed that during the time when God created he created two beginnings "generations plural" . Using the temporal to give us new creatures the eternal beginning without a end.
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, Genesis 2:4
Thanks for that verse . Its shows us he leads by faith . From faith, the unseen understanding to faith . Or face to face. Revelation to revelation . He places us in a cleft of a rock covering us till his glory goes by. Our rear guard also bringing darkness to the enemy leaving those lying spirits groping in the darkness of the wisdom of men.
I would suggest. God is supernatural without nature (beginning). Adding to it would make His Spirit desolate. The fall adding. . . form to sound. Destroys faith. Glory departs. God is not a man.
It could be important. I would offer mine .The revealing of their corruptipted dying flesh. The glowing glory of God's presence departed.
If the rebuilding takes away gender and fleshly nations as families, plural . Male and female, Jew and gentile as nations and possibly a carbon based dust. Then it reveals a person has been born again. The corruptible has put on the incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality.
The new creatures could of been like the beginning when the presence of the glory of God covered the glorious creation.
The whole creation moans under corruption.
So it will by glory in the new. . We holding out the gospel represent the glory Just as the Son of Man Jesus . The perfect sinless representative who worked with the father not seen. . strengthening Jesus seen .
In one way yes . We are infromed that during the time when God created he created two beginnings "generations plural" . Using the temporal to give us new creatures the eternal beginning without a end.
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, Genesis 2:4
Thanks for that verse . Its shows us he leads by faith . From faith, the unseen understanding to faith . Or face to face. Revelation to revelation . He places us in a cleft of a rock covering us till his glory goes by. Our rear guard also bringing darkness to the enemy leaving those lying spirits groping in the darkness of the wisdom of men.
The proof is the faith given. It was made sight when Jesus disappeared and returned to where the unseen glory was with the father, the Son of God. He and the Father are one in Spirit. He said the father and I are one.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.John 17:4-5
By the demonstration of two working as one on earth he gloried the unseen father. Having finished that one time outward demonstration it shows the shadow disappears . God is Light. No temple in the new. No night. No shadows . No death
Job 12:22 He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.John 17:4-5
By the demonstration of two working as one on earth he gloried the unseen father. Having finished that one time outward demonstration it shows the shadow disappears . God is Light. No temple in the new. No night. No shadows . No death
Job 12:22 He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.
What do you mean by that?
Correction: God was not a man (When David wrote that.) Paul (at least 24 years after Jesus ascended) wrote that there is "one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus." So God became a man, and remains as such.
To be more specific, do you believe that Adam a real person, the literal ancestor of all humans?
your welcome
Correction: God was not a man (When David wrote that.) Paul (at least 24 years after Jesus ascended) wrote that there is "one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus." So God became a man, and remains as such.
To be more specific, do you believe that Adam a real person, the literal ancestor of all humans?
your welcome
“These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him, and that they had done these things to Him.” (John 12:16)
“So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:22)
From these 2 verse alone, we know that the moment of Glory was the Resurrection of Jesus.
In addition to the Scripture, here are what some credible sources comment concerning these verses:
-A Handbook on the Gospel of John, pg 399-400 (Barclay)
-The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, Volume I pg 348 (Schneider)
-The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, pg 180 (Kittle)
“So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:22)
From these 2 verse alone, we know that the moment of Glory was the Resurrection of Jesus.
In addition to the Scripture, here are what some credible sources comment concerning these verses:
-A Handbook on the Gospel of John, pg 399-400 (Barclay)
-The Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament, Volume I pg 348 (Schneider)
-The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, pg 180 (Kittle)
Hi Massorite, open mind , I think that after the fall from Paradise, it would be an elevated state of immortal life. I believe Jesus experienced that elevated state naturally during His earthly life. It was in the light of Jesus's glorious soul that Elijah and Moses are seen. " on the mountain top" a symbol of the summit of the earth where Paradise symbolically is.
Jesus said to the good theif " today you will be with me in paradise"
Jesus said to the good theif " today you will be with me in paradise"
Eternal, supernatural God is not a man.
The fullness of the Godhead is the Spirit of Christ .He dwells in the heart of the believers .Jesus is the first born of many brethren .
Some that did walk by faith knew him after the temporal flesh which did not profit . Jesus was used as a representative glory.
No glorying in the corrupted flesh of mankind .He returned the unseen glory He had with the father from before the foundation of clay.
In the new heavens and earth there will be no sun or moon used to represent time. God will be the light of the true glory . No temple there. No night
We walk by faith the eternal, not seen. Not by sight the temporal, the things seen
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
"have known" = past tense ( behind)
"henceforth" = future tense (forever without end)
The fullness of the Godhead is the Spirit of Christ .He dwells in the heart of the believers .Jesus is the first born of many brethren .
Some that did walk by faith knew him after the temporal flesh which did not profit . Jesus was used as a representative glory.
No glorying in the corrupted flesh of mankind .He returned the unseen glory He had with the father from before the foundation of clay.
In the new heavens and earth there will be no sun or moon used to represent time. God will be the light of the true glory . No temple there. No night
We walk by faith the eternal, not seen. Not by sight the temporal, the things seen
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
"have known" = past tense ( behind)
"henceforth" = future tense (forever without end)
Yes and Christ didn't ascend to heaven as soon as He died, Paul says He first descended down into the lower parts of the earth.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
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The Bible says that Jesus IS a man, right now.
...and the Father and the Son. The Godhead=Trinity.
No one is disagreeing here. The process of glorifying is a cleansing of all that is sinful and fallen. Our flesh will be made like the flesh of the Son of Man in His in his glorious state.
Unseen not does not equal non-material. Magnetism is unseen, but unarguably is a physical property.
There was time before there was sin. There's no problem with time.
You're right. But walking by faith does not mean that the seen is nonexistent (you're confusing two topic into one). I believe in Jupiter, but I can't see it because I can't get to it.
Obviously. We don't know him now in the flesh because He is preparing a place for us and we know Him through the Holy Spirit until He returns....then "every eye will see him, all the tribes of the earth." Is that a spiritual earth?
The "henceforth" here is added by translators. But the "henceforth" at the beginning of the verse is legitimate in the Greek. Note that though, it says "we no longer know man after the flesh".
...and the Father and the Son. The Godhead=Trinity.
No one is disagreeing here. The process of glorifying is a cleansing of all that is sinful and fallen. Our flesh will be made like the flesh of the Son of Man in His in his glorious state.
Unseen not does not equal non-material. Magnetism is unseen, but unarguably is a physical property.
There was time before there was sin. There's no problem with time.
You're right. But walking by faith does not mean that the seen is nonexistent (you're confusing two topic into one). I believe in Jupiter, but I can't see it because I can't get to it.
Obviously. We don't know him now in the flesh because He is preparing a place for us and we know Him through the Holy Spirit until He returns....then "every eye will see him, all the tribes of the earth." Is that a spiritual earth?
The "henceforth" here is added by translators. But the "henceforth" at the beginning of the verse is legitimate in the Greek. Note that though, it says "we no longer know man after the flesh".
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The Bible says that God is not a man and neither is there a fleshly mediator as a infallible umpire or master teacher that stands between God not seen and mankind seen . He is eternal; God as Spirit . Job 9:32-33 learn how to walk by faith the unseen eternal
The God head is eternal God not seen. Not made after the corrupter rudiments of this world . Can't find God in a biology class .Nothing to put under the microscope.
The process of purifying not glorifying. He will not share is glory with the flesh( Clay) .The Son of man returned to the glory of the father and himself as one God head. He returned to it not took it with him
The Son of man has not flesh. Flesh and blood could never enter the new order. We know no man after the flesh even though some did know him for a short window, as a demonstration of the work which was finished from before the foundation.
The demonstration is not the actual work. Calvary points back to the promised prophecy. One demonstration is all that would be promised.
The drawing power of God word is like a magnet. One that draws spiritual property.
The spiritual unseen kind is what we do wrestle against. No reason to make it about flesh and blood. It will not be part of the new order .No precreation. No male and female No corrupted flesh, No need for DNA seeds .
You can see Jupiter with a telescope or other wise their would be no name . It was named after gods in the likeness of men (No faith)
Every eye that has been opened by the word of God. Like Noah. The Spirit of Christ came as a thief in the night but Noah was prepared he was watching. The description is lighting a flash and its over .The last day under the Sun
The second henceforth is not needed it does not change the subject. . of walking by faith (the unseen) No man includes the corrupted flesh of Christ .That he said profits for nothing.
Its the law of faith, the perfect law that did profit. The unseen father working with the Son. In order to do that in which the letter of the law (Death ) could not do . . .raise to new eternal spirit life.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Romans 8:3
Condemned sin in the flesh. The penalty made to without effect (death)
The God head is eternal God not seen. Not made after the corrupter rudiments of this world . Can't find God in a biology class .Nothing to put under the microscope.
The process of purifying not glorifying. He will not share is glory with the flesh( Clay) .The Son of man returned to the glory of the father and himself as one God head. He returned to it not took it with him
The Son of man has not flesh. Flesh and blood could never enter the new order. We know no man after the flesh even though some did know him for a short window, as a demonstration of the work which was finished from before the foundation.
The demonstration is not the actual work. Calvary points back to the promised prophecy. One demonstration is all that would be promised.
The drawing power of God word is like a magnet. One that draws spiritual property.
The spiritual unseen kind is what we do wrestle against. No reason to make it about flesh and blood. It will not be part of the new order .No precreation. No male and female No corrupted flesh, No need for DNA seeds .
You can see Jupiter with a telescope or other wise their would be no name . It was named after gods in the likeness of men (No faith)
Every eye that has been opened by the word of God. Like Noah. The Spirit of Christ came as a thief in the night but Noah was prepared he was watching. The description is lighting a flash and its over .The last day under the Sun
The second henceforth is not needed it does not change the subject. . of walking by faith (the unseen) No man includes the corrupted flesh of Christ .That he said profits for nothing.
Its the law of faith, the perfect law that did profit. The unseen father working with the Son. In order to do that in which the letter of the law (Death ) could not do . . .raise to new eternal spirit life.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Romans 8:3
Condemned sin in the flesh. The penalty made to without effect (death)
The same two witnesses that will be silenced or killed in Revelation . Sola scriptura. Same thing the Pharisees with Sadaucesss called heresy. Making the word of God without effect.
Moses is used in multiple parables to signify the letter of the law as that seen (death).
When coming from the glorious presence of the father on Mount Sinai. Moses (God draws out) was required to wear a veil to hide the glory of being in the presence of God. Elijah signifies the unseen law of faith the unseen power of God that does work in us .We are the temple of God just as Jesus . Yet he was without sin.
The two witnesses that say one God has spoken . Both the letter that kills and the Spirit that creates anew making one prefect law. Apart from each other they can do nothing. No conviction, no confirmation. . the witness of the Spirit our first love..
Romans 3:26King James Version To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Moses is used in multiple parables to signify the letter of the law as that seen (death).
When coming from the glorious presence of the father on Mount Sinai. Moses (God draws out) was required to wear a veil to hide the glory of being in the presence of God. Elijah signifies the unseen law of faith the unseen power of God that does work in us .We are the temple of God just as Jesus . Yet he was without sin.
The two witnesses that say one God has spoken . Both the letter that kills and the Spirit that creates anew making one prefect law. Apart from each other they can do nothing. No conviction, no confirmation. . the witness of the Spirit our first love..
Romans 3:26King James Version To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
You're mixing up Job 9:33 with 1 Timothy 2:5 (along with a few other bits, as usual). Job is complaining that there is no mediator who stands above both God and man to judge them. Paul is noting that there is a mediator between God and man is the man Jesus Christ, Who is also the Son of man as noted through the gospels.
I know that you are incorrect, but you are welcome to try to prove your assertion from Scripture.
I know that you are incorrect, but you are welcome to try to prove your assertion from Scripture.
Correction: The Bible says that He wasn't a man when that was written:
When Moses and Job and Samuel, that was true that God wasn't a man. But now He has become a man, "The Man Christ Jesus".
“These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him.” (John 12:16)
“So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:22)
These 2 verses alone should put a nail in that coffin.
And since He was without sin, death could not hold him and He was raised in glory.
When Moses and Job and Samuel, that was true that God wasn't a man. But now He has become a man, "The Man Christ Jesus".
“These things His disciples did not understand at the first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that these things were written of Him.” (John 12:16)
“So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.” (John 2:22)
These 2 verses alone should put a nail in that coffin.
And since He was without sin, death could not hold him and He was raised in glory.
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I see that a little differently. To begin with all men according to what the eyes see our liars. As soon as they are born they begin the life of dying according to what the corrupted eye sees, the temporal world.
Numbers 23:19 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1 Samuel 15;29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
Job 9:32 ties together the fact of the other two verses, and adds he is not a man, as I am to show he is not a creature or any kind of a man as us or not like us to emphasize we walk by faith .He adds and neither is there a fleshly mediator that stands between God (not a man) as eternally not seen, and man the temporal seen
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
We glory in the things not seen (faith) .The things seen they are temporal corrupted.
Numbers 23:19 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1 Samuel 15;29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
Job 9:32 ties together the fact of the other two verses, and adds he is not a man, as I am to show he is not a creature or any kind of a man as us or not like us to emphasize we walk by faith .He adds and neither is there a fleshly mediator that stands between God (not a man) as eternally not seen, and man the temporal seen
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
We glory in the things not seen (faith) .The things seen they are temporal corrupted.
Can please be more direct about what you're trying to say instead of make me try to guess? Are you saying that everything the physical eye sees is corruptible?
I literally just addressed this in my last comment.
God wasn't a man when Job and Moses and Samuel wrote that. But he is now because He became a man.
The incarnation is described by the N.T. writers in the perfect tense; the Greek is conjugated in such a way that it indicates a completed action, never to be undone or re-done.
There's the 2nd nail in the coffin.
I literally just addressed this in my last comment.
God wasn't a man when Job and Moses and Samuel wrote that. But he is now because He became a man.
The incarnation is described by the N.T. writers in the perfect tense; the Greek is conjugated in such a way that it indicates a completed action, never to be undone or re-done.
There's the 2nd nail in the coffin.
Everything the physical eye sees is corrupted, not corruptible. Dead is dead. In that way we let the dead bury the dead .We bring the gospel not seen our eternal living hope it goes beyond what the eyes discover.
God was not a man at any time. The 3 days three night demonstration of the temporal was used to give us the unseen gospel understanding.
We can use the tools he has designed to open our understanding hid in the parables.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It would seem to help understand the wrath of God as a corrupted dying creation that began to be reveled in Genesis the garden . When mankind obeyed the voice of a creature seen. The wrath, in dying you will be dead. It is being revealed from heaven to the whole world not just the Christian or Jewish world. The wrath would seem to be founded on those not applying that interpreting principle. 2 Corinthians 4:18
They changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.
Even the Son of man, Jesus in his flesh which he says profits for nothing (corruption has no power) would not stand in that holy place unseen place of the father as a abomination of desolation but rather when called a daysman (Pope) (Job 9:33 ) The Son of man said one is our Good Master, Our father not seen call no man on earth teacher as Good Master as Lord one is our father in heaven
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, (2 Corinthians 4:18) even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.Romans1:18-23
God was not a man at any time. The 3 days three night demonstration of the temporal was used to give us the unseen gospel understanding.
We can use the tools he has designed to open our understanding hid in the parables.
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
It would seem to help understand the wrath of God as a corrupted dying creation that began to be reveled in Genesis the garden . When mankind obeyed the voice of a creature seen. The wrath, in dying you will be dead. It is being revealed from heaven to the whole world not just the Christian or Jewish world. The wrath would seem to be founded on those not applying that interpreting principle. 2 Corinthians 4:18
They changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man.
Even the Son of man, Jesus in his flesh which he says profits for nothing (corruption has no power) would not stand in that holy place unseen place of the father as a abomination of desolation but rather when called a daysman (Pope) (Job 9:33 ) The Son of man said one is our Good Master, Our father not seen call no man on earth teacher as Good Master as Lord one is our father in heaven
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, (2 Corinthians 4:18) even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and four footed beasts, and creeping things.Romans1:18-23