Not By Works

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Micaiah-imla

Banned
#134,921
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
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#134,921
Guojing said:
So was the Great Commission in Matthew 28 also a command directed to the 11 apostles only? Why do so many of us automatically assumed its also directed to us as well?
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No. It was directed to any believer who desires to preach the gospel.

Because, unlike the flood that came and went, the world has not ended yet and Jesus himself said I am with until the end of the world regarding the preaching/teaching of the gospel.

Beware that studying Dispensationalism hasn’t made you an example of Ecclesiastes 7:16; making yourself overwise destroying yourself.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#134,922
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
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#134,922
Lightskin said:
I don’t want to derail this thread but just ask you a simple question. I don’t read the KJV because old English is too difficult for me to take in. What are your thoughts on the NKJV?
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It’s claim is to be close to the KJV but with more updated words. This is false. When words change, doctrines change. With the KJV, it is so easy to compare scripture to scripture using words. The new versions make this very difficult even the NKJV.
 
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Micaiah-imla

Banned
#134,924
Feb 29, 2020
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571
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#134,924
John146 said:
I don’t know one believer who thinks this way.
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I personally knew a person who was on drugs and given to drunkenness; he was encouraged to seek Jesus and be saved.

You know what his response was?

[in drunken muttering he said]
“I was saved already; how many times do I need to be saved?!”

He was brought up in church going family in a staunch Once Saved, Always Saved church. I remember the pastor would occasionally point his finger to the assembly from the pulpit and vehemently declare “ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!”

So I guess in this individual’s weak mind he was truly saved even while on drugs and drunkenness. This is why I despise the OSAS doctrine. Nothing personal.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#134,926
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
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#134,926
John146 said:
Nope. Nobody has said this. But what you are advocating is that one can believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, become a new creature, circumcised from the body of flesh, sealed to the day of redemption, then one day turn away from the Lord and He rips you right out of His body, takes His Spirit away from you, you become the old creature again, attached back to the body of flesh, and never again able to call upon the name of the Lord for salvation because He’s not able to save you a second time. You’ve got one shot at this. Don’t mess it up. Is that pretty much what you believe? And you get this from Hebrews, a book written to the Jews in the last days.
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About 15 years ago I was searching for a chat site and meant to type in Christian.com. I accidentally put an X in front of it and it turns out there was actually a site named XChristian.com.

It was a site dedicated to people who used to believe in Jesus Christ but no longer did so. Some folks were welcoming to Christians and desired raw, unadulterated, no holds bar communication. There were tears of pain and hearts that yearned for peace.

There were however other former believers who were downright demonic and darker than one can put into words. They cursed the Name of Jesus with the most vile insults I’ve ever encountered from hearts that were ruled with the essence of pure evil.

I used to think former believers could not possibly have salvation but CC has taught me a few things about God’s faithfulness and it gives me hope for those hateful people. Yet it is an honest question regarding how anyone with the Holy Spirit can curse our Lord and Savior.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#134,927
#134,927
Micaiah-imla said:
No. It was directed to any believer who desires to preach the gospel.

Because, unlike the flood that came and went, the world has not ended yet and Jesus himself said I am with until the end of the world regarding the preaching/teaching of the gospel.

Beware that studying Dispensationalism hasn’t made you an example of Ecclesiastes 7:16; making yourself overwise destroying yourself.
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Your joking right?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#134,928
#134,928
Lightskin said:
About 15 years ago I was searching for a chat site and meant to type in Christian.com. I accidentally put an X in front of it and it turns out there was actually a site named XChristian.com.

It was a site dedicated to people who used to believe in Jesus Christ but no longer did so. Some folks were welcoming to Christians and desired raw, unadulterated, no holds bar communication. There were tears of pain and hearts that yearned for peace.

There were however other former believers who were downright demonic and darker than one can put into words. They cursed the Name of Jesus with the most vile insults I’ve ever encountered from hearts that were ruled with the essence of pure evil.

I used to think former believers could not possibly have salvation but CC has taught me a few things about God’s faithfulness and it gives me hope for those hateful people. Yet it is an honest question regarding how anyone with the Holy Spirit can curse our Lord and Savior.
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My question would be were they truly former believers, Or make believers who ended up hating God because he did not give them what they were looking for.
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#134,929
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#134,929
Lightskin said:
I used to think former believers could not possibly have salvation but CC has taught me a few things about God’s faithfulness and it gives me hope for those hateful people. Yet it is an honest question regarding how anyone with the Holy Spirit can curse our Lord and Savior.
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Just my musing here Light, but it's quite possible that some of those people were raised as Christians as children, they know the scriptures but have never been born again.

My friends two daughters were raised that way - one is marginal and the other went the other was when they left home - both very intelligent.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#134,931
Aug 16, 2019
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#134,931
eternally-gratefull said:
My question would be were they truly former believers, Or make believers who ended up hating God because he did not give them what they were looking for.
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One guy was exactly as you describe, not getting what he wanted. I told him time and again he simply didn’t have the faith. I remember him telling me that he said to God, if you exist prove yourself to me. I told him that’s not a heart with true faithful desires, hence why God was silent.
 
Lightskin

Lightskin

Well-known member
#134,932
Aug 16, 2019
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#134,932
azamzimtoti said:
Just my musing here Light, but it's quite possible that some of those people were raised as Christians as children, they know the scriptures but have never been born again.

My friends two daughters were raised that way - one is marginal and the other went the other was when they left home - both very intelligent.
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Good point brother. There were definitely people on that site who in my opinion were never Christian, but rather haters of light and love, and basked in that hatred.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#134,933
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
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#134,933
Micaiah-imla said:
I personally knew a person who was on drugs and given to drunkenness; he was encouraged to seek Jesus and be saved.

You know what his response was?

[in drunken muttering he said]
“I was saved already; how many times do I need to be saved?!”

He was brought up in church going family in a staunch Once Saved, Always Saved church. I remember the pastor would occasionally point his finger to the assembly from the pulpit and vehemently declare “ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!”

So I guess in this individual’s weak mind he was truly saved even while on drugs and drunkenness. This is why I despise the OSAS doctrine. Nothing personal.
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Yes, I also know a man who loved the Lord, served Him fervently through His church, then one day, his wife left him with his children. Do you know what he did? He hit the bottle...hard. He couldn’t get over his circumstances. It was a dark time in his life. He blamed God for allowing this to happen. Many years later, he met a nice Christian lady, who helped him get his life back in order, and he’s currently alcohol free serving the Lord again. Was he always saved? Absolutely! No matter the sin, you don’t stop being a son.
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#134,934
#134,934
Judges1318 said:
Ask 11th hour.
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Just come right out and make your accusation on what I believe.
Prove where I have ever told a single person or have ever made a statement it is okay to sin all we want.

Again you sir are very dishonest... is this willful on your part?

Is this willful dishonesty from you from a place of unbelief?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#134,936
#134,936
Finepearl said:
No argument with this. I have always stated in my posts no works can earn us salvation only faith in Christ Jesus. This is clearly scriptural. What I have statec in my posts is that belief in Christ has to be supported by works in demonstration of that faith or belief. I have also cited scriptures in support of this.
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Then the opposite is true by rules of logic " no works, no salvation"

So then we are saved by our works, that is contrary to what scripture states.
 
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Micaiah-imla

Banned
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Feb 29, 2020
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#134,937
John146 said:
Yes, I also know a man who loved the Lord, served Him fervently through His church, then one day, his wife left him with his children. Do you know what he did? He hit the bottle...hard. He couldn’t get over his circumstances. It was a dark time in his life. He blamed God for allowing this to happen. Many years later, he met a nice Christian lady, who helped him get his life back in order, and he’s currently alcohol free serving the Lord again. Was he always saved? Absolutely! No matter the sin, you don’t stop being a son.
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Unfortunately, the person I was speaking of DIED in this condition recently. That broke my heart.
 
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John146

Senior Member
#134,938
Jan 13, 2016
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#134,938
Micaiah-imla said:
Unfortunately, the person I was speaking of DIED in this condition recently. That broke my heart.
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Ok, whether the guy I know, died before he turned his life around or not, he was still a son. His salvation was secured, not by his faith, but by the faith of Jesus Christ.
 
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Judges1318

Banned
#134,939
Nov 16, 2019
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860
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#134,939
EleventhHour said:
Just come right out and make your accusation on what I believe.
Prove where I have ever told a single person or have ever made a statement it is okay to sin all we want.

Again you sir are very dishonest... is this willful on your part?

Is this willful dishonesty from you from a place of unbelief?
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You say that a person can stop believing and they are still saved.
You don't even seem to understand your own argument.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#134,940
#134,940
Lightskin said:
One guy was exactly as you describe, not getting what he wanted. I told him time and again he simply didn’t have the faith. I remember him telling me that he said to God, if you exist prove yourself to me. I told him that’s not a heart with true faithful desires, hence why God was silent.
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That just shows he never had faith, God probably did try to prove himself. But he did not like what he saw.

One thing we know. as romans 1 says, he has no excuse.
 
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