Struggling with this principle
- Thread starter DBurrage
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it is not completely free. that is abundantly clear -- we can demonstrate that immediately: try to will yourself to fly into space and visit the moon.
didn't work?
well then. your so-called "free" will is limited by the principles of your nature. things that are outside of your control, exist & affect you. your nature is something God can change, but you cannot. that's salvation -- He seeks you out, reaches down, and changes you -- not the other way around
didn't work?
well then. your so-called "free" will is limited by the principles of your nature. things that are outside of your control, exist & affect you. your nature is something God can change, but you cannot. that's salvation -- He seeks you out, reaches down, and changes you -- not the other way around
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The fact that I've done something doesn't prove I have free will.
My original post can be reworded thus:
God knows for certain who will, and who will not, accept Jesus.
Therefore God knows who will, and who will not, go to heaven.
If God doesn't change things somehow to make those who were not going to accept Jesus, accept Jesus, then are we all individually just predestined either to accept Jesus or not?
Therefore are we not all predestined to be saved, or not?
Thus, do we actually have free will?
My original post can be reworded thus:
God knows for certain who will, and who will not, accept Jesus.
Therefore God knows who will, and who will not, go to heaven.
If God doesn't change things somehow to make those who were not going to accept Jesus, accept Jesus, then are we all individually just predestined either to accept Jesus or not?
Therefore are we not all predestined to be saved, or not?
Thus, do we actually have free will?
You seem so convinced. How would you describe a Heavenly Father accepting people to be joint heirs with His Son. Please explain this: So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God’s Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, “Abba, Father.” (Rom 8:15).
It's like this line of thinking here:
God knows everything based upon predestination. And God has His will in motion to fulfill His big picture. But yet, if a Believer has Faith, and stands in Faith, the course of action that God has predestined will change.
^
Yes, that leaves the idealism that God knew beforehand a Believer would have Faith and His plan would change for that single circumstance.
But it is the Believer, who stood in true Faith, is the one who did not know they would face something where their measure of Faith would be tested and granted by God.
^
Faith is the acting out in "Free Will!"
^
Which proves, we do have "Free Will," we just don't always exercise it. And sometimes, it takes a tragedy to force our "Free Will" to be put into action.
what difference does it make whether you think God knows what we are going to do every moment of our lives???
He is our CREATOR, and He has given us the 'option' to choose between 'good and evil' =
satan chose to do evil - Adam fell for it, he chose the wrong-way'...
DEU 30:19.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:
therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live:
20.
That you may love The LORD your God, and that you may obey His voice, and that you may cleave unto Him:
for He is your life, and the length of your days: that you may dwell in the land which The LORD sware unto your fathers,
to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
He is our CREATOR, and He has given us the 'option' to choose between 'good and evil' =
satan chose to do evil - Adam fell for it, he chose the wrong-way'...
DEU 30:19.
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing:
therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live:
20.
That you may love The LORD your God, and that you may obey His voice, and that you may cleave unto Him:
for He is your life, and the length of your days: that you may dwell in the land which The LORD sware unto your fathers,
to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
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No, the Holy Spirit is the earnest of the adoption. The adoption is future. The adoption is the destination of the believer. It’s the redemption of the body.
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
God knowing if we choose Christ isn’t the same as Him choosing for us. One means our answer is seen from a future perspective while the other is like we are all puppets in a puppet show with God having written the script. I don’t think the latter makes a bit of sense. Could that be the deal and we are all part of some cosmic theatre? I don’t think we are giving praise to some Divine Shakespeare creating drama for self amusement.
