Not By Works

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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You did not say that the first time. You lack experience on how to share the GOSPEL.
You're silly and judgmental. I've been around the US and Central America sharing the gospel, but hey, you know what's best. You claim one must know more than the simplicity of the gospel to be saved. That's false. Please go back and check post #135 and your response to what I stated. Thanks.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,971
4,586
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You're silly and judgmental. I've been around the US and Central America sharing the gospel, but hey, you know what's best. You claim one must know more than the simplicity of the gospel to be saved. That's false. Please go back and check post #135 and your response to what I stated. Thanks.

Does not mean YOU KNOW HOW.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Just shows that most Christians don’t even have that much faith.

Luke 18:8
[8]...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
If faith the size of a mustard seed, which is very small, is sufficient for healing, you ever consider the fact that very little of such healing seen today meant that the era of signs and wonders have passed?
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,971
4,586
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If John stated he was perfect I missed it.

So you admit that you did not read the first nine word of my post. I don't have time to waste on one that does not want to read a one sentence post, but WANTS TO POST A REBUTTLE on something HE THINKS I posted. Good Bye Lightskin.
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
So you admit that you did not read the first nine word of my post. I don't have time to waste on one that does not want to read a one sentence post, but WANTS TO POST A REBUTTLE on something HE THINKS I posted. Good Bye Lightskin.
I admit I usually don’t read much of your long winded, self righteous, judgmental blathering. But I know one thing for sure, John never stated he was perfect as you insinuated. Ba bye 👋
 
Nov 17, 2017
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Sanctified is defined for us right in the passage.
This is not an issue of figuring out what application of 'sanctified' the author is using.
He plainly tell us.
And since the author says 'sanctified' means the sanctified believer in Christ that makes it impossible that 'forever' in the passage means you are saved forever, but rather what it actually says, that the ministry of Christ is what is forever and doesn't need to be repeated.
Lets look....
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Strong's #37: hagiazo (pronounced hag-ee-ad'-zo)

from 40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate:--hallow, be holy, sanctify.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

hagiazō

1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

2a) consecrate things to God

2b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

3a) to cleanse externally

3b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

3c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from G40

Strong's #40: hagios (pronounced hag'-ee-os)

from hagos (an awful thing) (compare 53, 2282); sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially, consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

hagios

1) most holy thing, a saint

Part of Speech: adjective

Relation: from hagos (an awful thing) [compare G53, G2282]

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G37/hagiazo.htm
 
Feb 29, 2020
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If faith the size of a mustard seed, which is very small, is sufficient for healing, you ever consider the fact that very little of such healing seen today meant that the era of signs and wonders have passed?
Jesus alluded to finding no faith. That’s enough for me.

Peter was able to walk on water until he lost faith by letting the circumstances surrounding him cause him to focus on fear instead of faith.

The era of signs and wonders has not passed; just the era of these type of believers:

Acts 2:44-46
[44] And all that believed were together, and had all things common; [45] And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. [46] And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart

Acts 4:32-35
[32] And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. [33] And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. [34] Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, [35] And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

The problem with Christians today is that after they give witness of the resurrection, they proceed to leaven it with their churche’s abominable teaching tradition of men (Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witness, Lutheran, Mennonite, Presbyterian, Seventh Day Adventist, Church of Christ/God, and insert any other sect I missed, etc.)

This is quite amazing; especially after this is clearly addressed in 1 Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 1:10,12-13
[10] Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. [12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. [13] Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I don’t expect hypocrites that don’t obey this simple command to perform any miracles at all. Which is why I don’t put much weight on Pentecostals tongues performance. They can’t obey the ordinances regarding women speaking in churches and claim the ability to speak in tongues at the same time.

The cancer of false doctrine has increased since the apostles days and imagine what case this false body of Christ must be in today. It’s so bad that most “Christians” have surrendered to the idea of Denominations as a normal thing.
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Lets look....
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Strong's #37: hagiazo (pronounced hag-ee-ad'-zo)

from 40; to make holy, i.e. (ceremonially) purify or consecrate; (mentally) to venerate:--hallow, be holy, sanctify.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

hagiazō

1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow

2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

2a) consecrate things to God

2b) dedicate people to God

3) to purify

3a) to cleanse externally

3b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin

3c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from G40

Strong's #40: hagios (pronounced hag'-ee-os)

from hagos (an awful thing) (compare 53, 2282); sacred (physically, pure, morally blameless or religious, ceremonially, consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

hagios

1) most holy thing, a saint

Part of Speech: adjective

Relation: from hagos (an awful thing) [compare G53, G2282]

https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Lexicon.show/ID/G37/hagiazo.htm
@walknlight , @Lightskin , @mailmandan , @EleventhHour , @star, @BillG , @star , and everyone else:

We can see, right from the context of Hebrews 10, that the sanctified person is a believer:

10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

So, when you get to verse 29 we see that it is the sanctified believer that is trampling on the body of Christ and treating the blood as a profane thing and insulting the Spirit of grace, and as a result has nothing left to look forward to but being condemned along with the enemies of God:

"26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:26-29

Osas claims it can't be talking about the saved sanctified person in verses 10 and 14 because it says in verses 10 and 14 those sanctified people are perfected for all time, so it must be talking about an unsaved, fake believing, sanctified person in the church. Problem is, 1 Corinthians 5 and 2 Corinthians 6 show us that no fake person in the church is ever sanctified by God, let alone by the blood of Christ.

You can see that verses 10 and 14 aren't saying 'forever' means the saved person sanctified in Christ can never ever be unsanctified. It's saying that the sanctification that the believer receives does not have to be renewed through a re-sacrificing of Christ. We know that from the plain words of the discourse:

"25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself." - Hebrews 9:25-26

'Forever' doesn't mean you can't lose Christ's ministry. 'Forever' means the sanctification you receive does not run out, like it did under the old system, and so Christ does not have to be re-sacrificed. And because it doesn't run out we are exhorted to keep believing in so great a High Priest and Sacrifice:

"23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful." - Hebrews 10:23

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." - Hebrews 4:14
 
Nov 16, 2019
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The era of signs and wonders has not passed; just the era of these type of believers:
That is a fact.
When you tell the church that signs and wonders have passed you get a church that doesn't eagerly seek the gifts of the Spirit:

"31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts." - 1 Corinthians 12:31
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,642
3,533
113
That is a fact.
When you tell the church that signs and wonders have passed you get a church that doesn't eagerly seek the gifts of the Spirit:

"31Now eagerly desire the greater gifts." - 1 Corinthians 12:31
Then brother, get those people with the gift of healing out to the hospitals. What are they waiting for? Money?😜
 

Lightskin

Well-known member
Aug 16, 2019
3,165
3,665
113
@walknlight , @Lightskin , @mailmandan , @EleventhHour , @star, @BillG , @star , and everyone else:

We can see, right from the context of Hebrews 10, that the sanctified person is a believer:

10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

So, when you get to verse 29 we see that it is the sanctified believer that is trampling on the body of Christ and treating the blood as a profane thing and insulting the Spirit of grace, and as a result has nothing left to look forward to but being condemned along with the enemies of God:

"26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. 28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?" - Hebrews 10:26-29

Osas claims it can't be talking about the saved sanctified person in verses 10 and 14 because it says in verses 10 and 14 those sanctified people are perfected for all time, so it must be talking about an unsaved, fake believing, sanctified person in the church. Problem is, 1 Corinthians 5 and 2 Corinthians 6 show us that no fake person in the church is ever sanctified by God, let alone by the blood of Christ.

You can see that verses 10 and 14 aren't saying 'forever' means the saved person sanctified in Christ can never ever be unsanctified. It's saying that the sanctification that the believer receives does not have to be renewed through a re-sacrificing of Christ. We know that from the plain words of the discourse:

"25Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself." - Hebrews 9:25-26

'Forever' doesn't mean you can't lose Christ's ministry. 'Forever' means the sanctification you receive does not run out, like it did under the old system, and so Christ does not have to be re-sacrificed. And because it doesn't run out we are exhorted to keep believing in so great a High Priest and Sacrifice:

"23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful." - Hebrews 10:23

"14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we profess." - Hebrews 4:14
Are you saved or being saved?
 
Nov 16, 2019
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Then brother, get those people with the gift of healing out to the hospitals. What are they waiting for? Money?😜
What people?
The ones you've been telling the gifts don't exist anymore?
You know, the gifts you say are irrevocable.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,642
3,533
113
What people?
The ones you've been telling the gifts don't exist anymore?
You know, the gifts you say are irrevocable.
No, the people who have the gifts of healing. Get them out to the hospitals and start healing. Or admit, that gift has ceased.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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No, the people who have the gifts of healing. Get them out to the hospitals and start healing. Or admit, that gift has ceased.
No need for hospitals visits, just heal covid-19 by faith would be good enough proof for most of us ;)