Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Jhn 3 said they can;t continue in sin

Why do you keep calling the apostle John a liar?

Heb 10 is about returning to law and as doing so rejecting Grace.
The saved Galatians fell away and went back to the law.

"10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!" - Galatians 4:10

"4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:4
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
Where do you or I get th epower to reverse what God did?
Stop believing in it, that's how:

"1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
The author is telling the Jew turned Christian that Jesus is the final blood sacrifice and no other sacrifice of any kind is needed.
That interpretation means that because Jesus is the final blood sacrifice and no other is needed, all that's left is a fearful expectation of judgment and raging fire:

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God." - Hebrews 10:26-27

I'm pretty sure Jesus' final sacrifice was meant to deliver us from the judgment of fire to come, not make it so that's our expectation.
Obviously, no sacrifice remaining means the willfully sinning person has no sacrifice left to protect him from the fires of the coming judgment.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
It’s hard for believers that have the same heart issues of the elder brother of the prodigal son to believe that Father would welcome His prodigal back home with great joy.......:unsure:

They would rather believe that if a believer leaves the faith after being saved they cannot come back. However, the Father says they can! :love:(y)
Amen ...the Father says they can!

Thank you!

Some prefer to try to make God a liar in service to their own agenda.
 
Nov 16, 2019
3,441
860
113
They would rather believe that if a believer leaves the faith after being saved they cannot come back. However, the Father says they can! :love:(y)
...up until he says they can't come back. God is merciful. He gives space to reconsider before turning the ex-believer over to his choice to not believe and trust in Christ anymore.

It’s hard for believers that have the same heart issues of the elder brother of the prodigal son to believe that Father would welcome His prodigal back home with great joy.......:unsure:
If I was in any way like the Prodigal Son's older brother I wouldn't care that people know the truth about falling away from faith in Christ and being lost.
But as it is, I'm calling prodigals, and potential prodigals, back to faith in Christ and in the process heaping up reward for myself, the reward being the person themselves. That's not exactly the attitude of the older brother of the Prodigal.
But the new osas thinks it's doing good by telling prodigals all is good while you're in the land of prostitutes and pig farms, not realizing the Prodigal had to come home in order to not be dead and lost anymore.

"24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ - Luke 15:24

.
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
NOW WE HAVE ARRIVED AT THE TRUTH ! ! ! All we have to do now, is get you to admit to GOD you sin every time you exceed the Speed Limit.

Can't you see that what YOU have been doing is LOWERING GOD'S standard of Righteous to something you can KEEP, and pronouncing you Gave Up Sinning. That is Modern Day Pharisaism.
We pray for our leaders in government, we aim to walk honestly in the sight of all men so that the word of God be not blasphemed.

You are overly zealous on this speed limit thing; more so than even Law Enforcement is.

I've seen often times law enforcement/government officials ignore traffic laws out right!

For:

They bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers (Matthew 23:4).

As I said before, speed limits are a thing you as a responsible driver should observe with good judgment and common sense based on location, conditions, and the enforcement practices of that particular area's enforcement policies (strict or relaxed), etc.

Jesus was accused of being a winebibber; seems like I am being accused of wreckless driving.

Who are being the Pharisees here? Me, or you accusers?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Stop believing in it, that's how:

"1Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain." - 1 Corinthians 15:1-2
You are far from understanding the Book of Hebrews, or many other letters and verses ... however it is proper practice to always understand more difficult verses within the context of the larger biblical truths or within context of the larger theme of the letter, not pull a verse from its context.

This is dishonest.

We all know that petulant children cannot admit when they are wrong and what do they do is ramp up their temper tantrum and persist in their error even more.

Yes that is what they do.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The saved Galatians fell away and went back to the law.

"10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!" - Galatians 4:10

"4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:4
Loss of salvation is not in view.

Falling from grace is NOT being UNJUSTIFIED.

God does not unjustify HIS children ever!!
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
Haven't you been reading along?
I'm being told my continuing to believe in order to be saved when Jesus comes back is me trying to earn my own salvation through works.
"Continued belief" is NOT what secures salvation.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
The Bible says you cannot sin.

I'm not going to deny that based on an action that by nature is variable and ever changing (like driving).
The Bible states Jesus cannot sin.

That is what John is addressing.
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
God does not unjustify HIS children ever!!
...If any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city (Revelation 22:19).

OSAS would take away this verse...

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone (Revelation 21:8).

Because once you are saved, you cannot be lost even if you go on to commit these acts after being saved. And some can claim all they want that this type of person was never saved, but that doesn't matter because as long as some weak soul believes that he is saved, and goes back to sin, he is saved in HIS mind. I knew a person like this.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
...If any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city (Revelation 22:19).

OSAS would take away this verse...

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone (Revelation 21:8).

Because once you are saved, you cannot be lost even if you go on to commit these acts after being saved. And some can claim all they want that this type of person was never saved, but that doesn't matter because as long as some weak soul believes that he is saved, and goes back to sin, he is saved in HIS mind. I knew a person like this.
Everyone is those things without Jesus ... your deeds are not the basis of your salvation.

When you make peace with this concept you will begin to understand/accept the Gospel.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
No true.

God shall take away his part out of the book of life (Revelation 22:19).
If the “anyone” referred to in Revelation 22:19 are not believers, who are they? In other words, who might want to either add to or take away from the words of the Bible? Most likely, this tampering with God’s Word would be done not by true believers but by those who only profess to be Christians and who suppose that their names are in the Book of Life. Generally speaking, the two main groups who have traditionally tampered with God’s revelation are pseudo-Christian cults and those who hold to very liberal theological beliefs. Many cults and theological liberals claim the name of Christ as their own, but they are not “born again”—the definitive biblical term for a Christian...

There is another important consideration about the meaning of Revelation 22:19, and it involves translation. Most manuscripts do not even mention the “book of life”; instead, they have “tree of life.” Here is how Revelation 22:19 reads in the NIV: “If anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.” Other translations with “tree” instead of “book” are the NASB, ESV, NLT, HCSB, ISV, NET, and ASV, among others. The KJV stands nearly alone in translating it as the “book” of life. The error arose when Erasmus, in compiling his Greek text, was forced to translate the last six verses of Revelation from the Latin Vulgate into Greek. The “tree” became a “book” because a scribe had accidentally replaced the Latin lingo (“tree”) with libro (“book”). All translations that follow the Textus Receptus, such as the KJV, thus incorrectly say “book” instead of “tree” of life...

https://www.gotquestions.org/erased-book-life.html
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
"Anyone" includes believers. Hence, anyone.

Where is the tree of life, by the way (even if you want to reject the KJV rendering)?

The passage also mentions "the holy city".
this is making an assumption not found.

We should not interpret the word based on assumptions.
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
I was thinking the same thing.
It's ironic how they strain out the gnat of a minor driving offense but swallow the offense of unbelief.
There is no offense of "unbelief" for the born again believer because they are justified, sanctified and will be glorified as promised.
 
Feb 29, 2020
1,563
571
113
There is no offense of "unbelief" for the born again believer because they are justified, sanctified and will be glorified as promised.
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God (Hebrews 3:12).

Take note of the words:
  • Brethren
  • Departing