Not By Works

[Judges1318]

excusing his own sin while trampling under foot the Son of God, counting his blood a common base

I'm not excusing my sin, nor am I trampling on Jesus. I still believe in the blood of Christ.

 

[Judges1318]

here is a question I ask the legalists ( never get an answer) is this-

if a certain amount or certain type of sin will disqualify one from salvation, how much and what type??

I don't know about the legalists (whoever they are) but when you ask me this question you do get an answer.
I've answered this question several times already.

 

[gb9]

I don't know about the legalists (whoever they are) but when you ask me this question you do get an answer.
I've answered this question several times already.

well, I gave you the definition of " believe" . you rejected it.

I showed you by example of nature how having a judge by appearance attitude is wrong because you cannot correctly do so. you rejected this fact.

so, I could care less about your answer.

you seem not to even care about or understand the question.

 

[Judges1318]

well, I gave you the definition of " believe" . you rejected it.

I showed you by example of nature how having a judge by appearance attitude is wrong because you cannot correctly do so. you rejected this fact.

so, I could care less about your answer.

you seem not to even care about or understand the question.

The sin you sin because you have cast away your trust in Christ is the sin that will condemn you.
But as long as you continue to trust in Christ, your struggle with sin is completely and totally covered.

 

[mailmandan]

It does not get any plainer..........James, the brother of our Lord Christ Jesus, explicitly said that “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

James 2:14-24. What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15. If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16. and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17. Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19. You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to substantiate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work/righteous work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).

In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Please tell me, which good works/righteous works could a Christian perform which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18). Are there any good works/righteous works that Christians do which fall outside of loving God and our neighbor as ourself?

*When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works/righteous works from the law, so the not saved by "these" works (works of the law) but saved by "those" works (good works/righteous works) argument is bogus.

In James 2:17, faith by itself that produces no works is an empty profession of faith/dead faith and is not authentic faith.

In James 2:18, we see that we show our faith by our works. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance upon Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree). James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous. *That is in perfect harmony with Romans 4:2-3.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). It does not get any plainer.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evidence, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24). Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified based on Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* It does not get any plainer.

 

[dcontroversal]

It does not get any plainer..........James, the brother of our Lord Christ Jesus, explicitly said that “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

James 2:14-24. What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15. If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16. and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17. Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18. But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19. You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God.
24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

As for the Apostle Paul,

Everywhere that Paul preached the message that all men, including Gentiles, are saved by grace through faith apart from the works of the Law, Judaizers were hot on his heels to proclaim that one could not be a Jew without keeping the Law and that, therefore, one could not be a Christian without keeping the Law (in the broadest Jewish sense, including, and especially so, the law of circumcision which was not included in the Mosaic Law). In Eph. 2:8-9, Paul is dealing with this very issue; he is NOT contradicting James and the nearly universal teaching of the first century Church that good works are absolutely necessary for salvation, a teaching that remained nearly universal till the 16th century! Paul is teaching that we are justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Rom_3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Rom_3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Gal_2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal_3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal_3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Gal_3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works are absolutely necessary for our Salvation!

And you are another dense one that denies context and makes the scripture contradict.....

Therefore we conclude thst a man is justfied by faith without the deed/works of the law....

Go study, get honest, actually trust Jesus then come back....until then, your opening salvo reeks of not only ignorance, but scriptural dishonesty, contextual dishonesty and Cainology!

 

[dcontroversal]

For loves sake is the very reason I did not reply to the OSAS “beat down” that came down on me after my last post. I love you all, really I do.

In fact, dc is in my thoughts and prayers the most.

Pray for yourself, that God reveals the truth and brings you out of a religious persuasion that leads to the "many group"......

It is All 100% Jesus or as fraudulent as it comes....!

 

[dcontroversal]

How many righteous works do I need to secure my salvation?

The one that he actually lacks.....Deny self and actually trust Jesus by faith.

He is just another cousin of the JWs or Mormons......another working for, self saving Cainologist....!

 

[mailmandan]

Everywhere that Paul preached the message that all men, including Gentiles, are saved by grace through faith apart from the works of the Law, Judaizers were hot on his heels to proclaim that one could not be a Jew without keeping the Law and that, therefore, one could not be a Christian without keeping the Law (in the broadest Jewish sense, including, and especially so, the law of circumcision which was not included in the Mosaic Law). In Eph. 2:8-9, Paul is dealing with this very issue; he is NOT contradicting James and the nearly universal teaching of the first century Church that good works are absolutely necessary for salvation, a teaching that remained nearly universal till the 16th century! Paul is teaching that we are justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Rom_3:20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Rom_3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Gal_2:16 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Gal_3:2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Gal_3:5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—

Gal_3:10 For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.”

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works are absolutely necessary for our Salvation!

Paul did not merely limit "works" only to specific works of the law, then imply we are saved by good works. In Ephesians 2:8-9, Paul clearly stated that we are saved by grace through faith, not works (not faith and good works). In verse 10, Paul goes on to say that we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus FOR good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. That's a far cry from being saved "by" good works. We are saved FOR good works and not by good works.

So we are not saved by righteous works. In Titus 3:5, Paul clearly stated that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us.. In 2 Timothy 1:9, Paul clearly stated that He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. *NOWHERE in the Bible does Paul state that we are saved "by" works of any kind (Romans 4:2-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..) so once again, your saved by "these" works (good works) and just not "those" works (works of the law) argument is bogus and your saved by good works teaching remained nearly universal till the 16th century Roman Catholic sales pitch is also bogus.

 

[mailmandan]

How many righteous works do I need to secure my salvation?

Exactly! How many righteous works must we accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Christ save us? Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[dcontroversal]

The sin you sin because you have cast away your trust in Christ is the sin that will condemn you.
But as long as you continue to trust in Christ, your struggle with sin is completely and totally covered.

Right here...more double talk from one that not only tramples Jesus under his feet, but also is oblivious of the truth concerning grace, faith, redemption, out bounds, saved, irrevocable, kept, lose nothing, finish, complete etc....Yoy are one of the most scripturally inept amd dishonest people I have ever seen in my 53 years!

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm not excusing my sin, nor am I trampling on Jesus. I still believe in the blood of Christ.

Argue Hebrews with yourself pal....and you are not only a hypocrite, you are denying and excusing your own sin and INDEED trampling Jesus and his blood undet your feet per your own words and stance......get some honesty hypocrite!

 

[Micaiah-imla]

I am really not concerned about your love for us/me at all... you sir are in bondage and that is what you teach .....that is a concern

God loved you before you got “saved”.

Your enemies love you, but you are not concerned about that.

In fact, I wonder if you love your enemies like Jesus told you to do.

If there was any smidgen of doubt in my mind that all OSAS’ers were not unloving, this experience has eliminated it.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

It is All 100% Jesus or as fraudulent as it comes....!

Actually, it’s 100% Bible.

Right now you are accepting less than the full council of scripture to remain in a lie that feels good to your flesh.

Jesus told me to pray for those who persecute me. I’ll obey my Savior, not you.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

if a certain amount or certain type of sin will disqualify one from salvation, how much and what type??

I suggest you read the New Testament frequently and often. It’s not that long. To ask such a question shows how ignorant you are of the scripture.

 

[gb9]

I suggest you read the New Testament frequently and often. It’s not that long. To ask such a question shows how ignorant you are of the scripture.

since I am so ignorant, why don't you go ahead and give an answer...

 

[Micaiah-imla]

since I am so ignorant, why don't you go ahead and give an answer...

Why don’t you go ahead and read the Bible. Go take your OSAS and put it through the fire of scripture and see if it endures.

I’m not playing games with you OSAS’ers. You won’t listen anyway. I feel like Jonah; where’s the nearest ship to get out of here!

 

[EleventhHour]

God loved you before you got “saved”.

Your enemies love you, but you are not concerned about that.

In fact, I wonder if you love your enemies like Jesus told you to do.

If there was any smidgen of doubt in my mind that all OSAS’ers were not unloving, this experience has eliminated it.

You really changed what I stated.

 

[gb9]

Why don’t you go ahead and read the Bible. Go take your OSAS and put it through the fire of scripture and see if it endures.

I’m not playing games with you OSAS’ers. You won’t listen anyway. I feel like Jonah; where’s the nearest ship to get out of here!

so, in other words, just as I said, you legalists refuse to answer this question.

thanks for proving my point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Actually, it’s 100% Bible.

Right now you are accepting less than the full council of scripture to remain in a lie that feels good to your flesh.

Jesus told me to pray for those who persecute me. I’ll obey my Savior, not you.

then why do you not obey your savior? Why do you MOCK your savior by denying the cross is sufficient and his work was not complete?