Law Rules—Grace Lives

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
259
63
#1
If you take the law as your rule of life—and holy, and just, and good it is—remember that as many as are of its works, upon that principle, are under the curse, as the Apostle Paul said (“of its works” i.e. trusting its works or any works for forgiveness - Gal 3:10; “under the curse,” because man could not perfectly obey the law, which was intended to establish the necessity of Christ to change one’s heart - Jas 2:10—NC). It is only when man puts himself under the law that he forfeits everything, for then God must allow him to prove how much he can claim on the ground of his sown works.

You find neither pilgrim nor stranger-ship in your rule, and that may suit you; but you find no glories of the new creation in it either; nor does it speak to you as a heavenly people, sanctified, and sent into the world as the Father sent His Son. All this is nowhere; the Christian’s place no higher than the Jews (still law not grace—NC); the standard of walk no different; for, of course, if the law is your rule of life, as was the Jews’, there cannot, and ought not to be any difference between you walk and his; your position in the Lord Jesus and its privileges gone, for of these the Jew knew nothing (the Jews chose not to advance from being a people of God under the prior Covenant, to being children of God under the present Covenant, as the indwelling of Christ is required to be an “heir” in the child-ship of the Father - Rom 8:17—NC).

But “if any man be in Christ he is a new creature’ old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new” (2Cor 5:17 – and all remains new daily - Lam 3:23—NC). What does this mean: “a new creature”; a new sort of creature, as the Word implies? Do you go back to Adam, the pure and innocent man in the garden which God set him in to dress and keep? Nay, that would be no creature new in kind! Adam, even pure and good before his fall, was yet “of the earth, earthy” (but God’s plans were of a greater “heavenly” position for man, providing a closer fellowship of, not just being with Him on earth but being in Him in heaven, via His Spirit - 1Cor 15:47-49; Jhn 14:16, 17—NC). Is the Lord Jesus but the first man set up afresh? Never! He is “the second Man, the Lord from heaven” (v 47).

Let men cavil as they please, He is a heavenly Man; a second, another sort (first with the new body in heaven—NC); a “last Adam,” seen and accepted before the Father, “in the Beloved.” “As is the earthy, such are they also that are heavenly.” The image of it we have not yet, true (e.g. the new body and sinless state—NC). That will be ours in the day of His coming. The thing we are (eternal child of God in Christ—NC)!

Do you and I know what it is to look into those heavens, where the Son of God sits in glory all His own, and see and recognize in Him what we are before the Father, “as He is,” even “in this world” (1Jo 4:17)? Can we say quite confidently, each for themselves, “Yes, we are identified with “Him who is our Life” before the face of the Father (Col 3:4); as He is, in whom no spot was ever found, nor can be (impeccable—NC), after the Father’s own heart wholly”? That is to be in Christ, a new creature. Our rule is to “walk in Him” (Col 2:6), as being what we really are: heavenly citizens, pilgrims and strangers upon the earth (all are pilgrims on this present earth because it will “pass away” - Rev 21:1. I do not think Christians will dwell on the new earth, but rather rule it with the Lord Jesus from the new heaven; and the new Jerusalem possibly being the meeting place of fellowship between the earthly and heavenly dwellers (Rev 21:2—NC).

All the rest the Cross has ended for us. We have died with the Lord Jesus out of our old Adam position; our old man was crucified with Him on the Cross (Rom 6:6). The flesh is in us still, indeed, but in us a foreign thing. We are not in it before our Father, nor identified with it in anywise (concerning its damnation, dominion and ungodliness – Rom 8:1; 6:14; Tit 1:15—NC), but with Him in Whom it was never found. We are in Him as He is and where He is. Can we own this, and seek to get on in a world (i.e. get together with the world—NC) that crucified the Lord Jesus; a world to which we are crucified and it crucified to us (Gal 6:14); a world whose prince and god is Satan (Jhn 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2Co 4:4), and friendship with which is enmity against God (Jas 4:4)? Can we take up the law with others, when our Father has shown us grace? Not I, “for I, through the law, and dead to the law, that I might live unto God” (Gal 2:19).



— Wm Kelly (1821-1906)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#2
It is important to understand, as Pau has taught us all, "faith establishes the law.@

To understand what he was saying best, go back, and learn how Jesus-Yeshua obeyed and taught the law after He, alone, fulfilled the laws that do not make up love. Think about that.
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
259
63
#3
It is important to understand, as Pau has taught us all, "faith establishes the law.@

To understand what he was saying best, go back, and learn how Jesus-Yeshua obeyed and taught the law after He, alone, fulfilled the laws that do not make up love. Think about that.
Hi, and appreciate your comments! I suppose it would depend of what one means by "the law." If the meaning is that it refers to the general desire of God's will for holiness, then I think the word "law" is eternal and means "principle of God." But if referencing to the "Law of Moses," as Scripture has revealed, it was not only temporary but "not of faith" (Gal 3:12) because it was purposed to manifest to mankind their offences or sins, and the need for resolution.

It could not provide salvation (Heb 10:1) but only direct one to it (Gal 3:24, 25), and I think this is what Jesus taught while obeying it Himself; and He was the sole human that lived it righteously because true obedience of the Law required being sinless and manifesting an unbroken walk in it (Jas 2:10) to be considered righteous. None the righteousness within all the saints is their's, but is God's righteousness imputed to us, His being the only righteousness in existence, thus must be imputed (not sure if we are discussing the same thing).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#4
It is only when man puts himself under the law that he forfeits everything, for then God must allow him to prove how much he can claim on the ground of his sown works.
This is a little misleading. The contrast should be between salvation (justification) by grace through faith and salvation (justification) by the works of the Law. The first is for Christians, whereas the second is for unbelieving Jews (even today) who have rejected the finished work of Christ.

However, we should always bear in mind that Christians are UNDER THE LAW OF CHRIST. This is even more severe and demanding than the Law of Moses, since it requires that we bless our personal (human) enemies and do good to them that curse us.
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
259
63
#5
This is a little misleading. The contrast should be between salvation (justification) by grace through faith and salvation (justification) by the works of the Law. The first is for Christians, whereas the second is for unbelieving Jews (even today) who have rejected the finished work of Christ.

However, we should always bear in mind that Christians are UNDER THE LAW OF CHRIST. This is even more severe and demanding than the Law of Moses, since it requires that we bless our personal (human) enemies and do good to them that curse us.
The idea of man being under the Law was that he is shown he is guilty of all of its expectations (Jas 2:10), because it required being without the sin nature. Thus it was for Christ only, and not man to keep; and this was only to manifest He was the sole sacrifice for the salvation of man.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#6
Hi, and appreciate your comments! I suppose it would depend of what one means by "the law." If the meaning is that it refers to the general desire of God's will for holiness, then I think the word "law" is eternal and means "principle of God." But if referencing to the "Law of Moses," as Scripture has revealed, it was not only temporary but "not of faith" (Gal 3:12) because it was purposed to manifest to mankind their offences or sins, and the need for resolution.

It could not provide salvation (Heb 10:1) but only direct one to it (Gal 3:24, 25), and I think this is what Jesus taught while obeying it Himself; and He was the sole human that lived it righteously because true obedience of the Law required being sinless and manifesting an unbroken walk in it (Jas 2:10) to be considered righteous. None the righteousness within all the saints is their's, but is God's righteousness imputed to us, His being the only righteousness in existence, thus must be imputed (not sure if we are discussing the same thing).
If we read the "law of Moses
we find severl major sections relating from the country first called Israel, to the Priesthood, the dietary laws, laws on sacrifice, and finally laws on morality which make up love... Those which build to love include the commandments and simple instructions on dealing with others in mercy, faith and justice as Jesus-Yeshua teaches..

If we pay attention to the law in our Savior-s Example we will find the appearance of His having not kept all of the law, however we know He was, and always is perfect in every regard. We must not imitate other imitating Him, we must understand imitating Him. He truly is our Example.
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
259
63
#7
If we read the "law of Moses
we find severl major sections relating from the country first called Israel, to the Priesthood, the dietary laws, laws on sacrifice, and finally laws on morality which make up love... Those which build to love include the commandments and simple instructions on dealing with others in mercy, faith and justice as Jesus-Yeshua teaches..
I like all that you've shared in this reply, in that God's desires are manifest in the OT. But I think it's instructional to know that what He has begun in the OT is has the same purpose as in the NT. Though each are equal in significance concerning us knowing His will, neither are equal in the revealing of His will, e.g. the NT progresses on in what He reveals concerning the finality of His will and how it is to be done concerning the believers in God (Jhn 14:1), and those believing in Christ.

When we see Jesus teaching the Law it was because it was still in effect, but He taught it was passing upon Him fulfilling or completing it (Mat 5:17, 18), and that it was to the Jews only. To "destroy" the Law to me means the Lord Jesus not fulfilling it, which would have brought it to nothing. Though God "had no pleasure" in the Law (Heb 10:8 - I think because of the requirement of killing animals typifying the killing of His Son), it was used to direct all to the New Covenant, which could not be established until "He takes away the first" (v 9).

If we pay attention to the law in our Savior-s Example we will find the appearance of His having not kept all of the law, however we know He was, and always is perfect in every regard.
Not sure of your meaning of "His having not kept all of the law."

We must not imitate other imitating Him, we must understand imitating Him. He truly is our Example.
I like your point here, imitating Christ and not imitating others, but Paul's intention to "follow me" (1Co 11:1) is to do what he did, to choose to believe in the Lord Jesus. "Follow" in an applicable context can mean "imitate," but I believe it goes beyond imitation, because imitate in an applicable context also means "counterfeit" (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/imitate). As we know, Christ Himself lives in us via the Spirit, thus it's Him living His Life in and through us, not us living His Life in us, e.g. " not I, but Christ lives in Me," i.e. while I'm also living my life (Gal 2:20).
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#8
Look to the example of Abraham, how he believed God. The gospel was given to him first because of this and the blessing for all mankind who will receive it.

The teaching of Jesus-Yeshua in what is termed the Sermon on the Mount demonstrated He taught not to obey some of the law stressing those laws which did not include mercy and love.

He also defended dthe woman caught in adultry with many witness of her act instead of insisting she be stoned.....…….also not in the law but mercy and love are present, and I believe justice for Jesus teaches these three principles must be present in apply the law.

Now the laws remaing are all which make up love, even the pointers on conducting oneself with love.....
 

NetChaplain

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2018
734
259
63
#9
Look to the example of Abraham, how he believed God. The gospel was given to him first because of this and the blessing for all mankind who will receive it.

The teaching of Jesus-Yeshua in what is termed the Sermon on the Mount demonstrated He taught not to obey some of the law stressing those laws which did not include mercy and love.

He also defended dthe woman caught in adultry with many witness of her act instead of insisting she be stoned.....…….also not in the law but mercy and love are present, and I believe justice for Jesus teaches these three principles must be present in apply the law.

Now the laws remaing are all which make up love, even the pointers on conducting oneself with love.....
Thanks, and I think I understand enough of what you are trying to relate.