Not By Works

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John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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The OT saints who loved God never turned their back on Him.
The NT saints who love Jesus don't turn their back on Him either.
Yes there may be a season of darkness and sin, but the departure is never permanent if true love exists.
define what you mean by “turn their back on God”?
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I could be mistaken, have not interacted with ganwhite in quite a while, but I think ganwhite thinks that one has to keep the Law and the Sabbath to be saved.

that could explain why the O.T. push...
Well that would explain things... ;)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
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define what you mean by “turn their back on God”?
It doesn't really matter if it hasn't happened or won't happen. But Gandalf was the one setting the description, I was merely utilizing it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I could be mistaken, have not interacted with ganwhite in quite a while, but I think ganwhite thinks that one has to keep the Law and the Sabbath to be saved.

that could explain why the O.T. push...
I think you are mistaken

I do not remember ever hearing him say this.. Of curse I could be wrong too..lol
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
I think you are mistaken

I do not remember ever hearing him say this.. Of curse I could be wrong too..lol
Only he can clarify but this sounds interesting to me...

There are a few things to consider here;

1)God is a non-changing God so He would never change His word.

2)The Bible teaches us that everything is about Jesus. So if He tells us not to follow Torah, He basically tells us not to follow Him anymore.

3)After His crucifixion, Jesus appeared to the two men and taught them from the Old Testament about himself.

4)Jesus said that the Pharisees sit in the seat of Moses (that is to keep the Torah) so do what they tell you to do (keep Torah) but don’t do what they do (keep Talmud). The Talmud is basically man’s opinion and will lead to destruction.
#193
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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I Think John tells us the answer

He said they were never of us, IF they were of us, they never would have departed.

Remember, Jesus said in that day, Many will come telling him how they cast out demons, Prophesied, and done many wonders (We can add speaking in tongues, Leading people to Christ and was on fire to that list) To depart for he never knew them.

If both Jesus sand John declare they were never of us, Then we should understand, They were never saved

They were not given ETERNAL LIFE. and th SEAL of the spirit only to have that removed..

They never had it to begin with.

OR. they are in a prodigal state. But even then (I was a prodigal for 5 years) I never stopped denying Jesus or what I was..
Only 5 years.

I would say I wished mine was only that. It was 15 years.

Every day of a prodical was miserable. It may be exteme but it was hell on earth for me. Separation from God.

But like you I never stopped denying Jesus but I couldn't deny what I thought I was.
What was I? A dirty miserable sinner, not loved by God because I was a sinner, a so called Christian who sinned. Not loved and would only be loved if I stopped sinning (full stop) and worked harder.

It's interesting you mention tongues. I sought someone out for help, they asked me if I spoke in tongues. I said no. They said that was evidence that I was not saved.

I carried that baggage for a long long long time. Very sad that the army of Jesus shoot the wounded.

I never ever denied Jesus. Called out every day "JESUS PLEASE HELP ME"
Even asked him to kill me so I would know where I was going, upstairs or downstairs.

Praise God he restored me. And I believe based in his timing and now I rejoice in what I went through.

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

He had to work good in all the things that were not good that led me to be a prodigal (sexually abused, thrown out by mum at 14, severe beatings as a child by mum, sexually abused by a so called Christian man who fostered me from 14 to 18 and so on)

But I rejoice and thank Jesus. He worked good in the shit pit of my life, he conforms me to the image of him and is continuing to do so.

Now I walk with people who are going through what I went through and I can only do so because I know what it is like.

I know that I thier fears, addictions and why they do what they do.

And I can walk with them.

I consider what I went through was for a purpose and that is to help others.

God is good and knows what he is doing and in his time.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Only 5 years.

I would say I wished mine was only that. It was 15 years.

Every day of a prodical was miserable. It may be exteme but it was hell on earth for me. Separation from God.

But like you I never stopped denying Jesus but I couldn't deny what I thought I was.
What was I? A dirty miserable sinner, not loved by God because I was a sinner, a so called Christian who sinned. Not loved and would only be loved if I stopped sinning (full stop) and worked harder.

It's interesting you mention tongues. I sought someone out for help, they asked me if I spoke in tongues. I said no. They said that was evidence that I was not saved.

I carried that baggage for a long long long time. Very sad that the army of Jesus shoot the wounded.

I never ever denied Jesus. Called out every day "JESUS PLEASE HELP ME"
Even asked him to kill me so I would know where I was going, upstairs or downstairs.

Praise God he restored me. And I believe based in his timing and now I rejoice in what I went through.

Romans 8:28-30
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

He had to work good in all the things that were not good that led me to be a prodigal (sexually abused, thrown out by mum at 14, severe beatings as a child by mum, sexually abused by a so called Christian man who fostered me from 14 to 18 and so on)

But I rejoice and thank Jesus. He worked good in the shit pit of my life, he conforms me to the image of him and is continuing to do so.

Now I walk with people who are going through what I went through and I can only do so because I know what it is like.

I know that I thier fears, addictions and why they do what they do.

And I can walk with them.

I consider what I went through was for a purpose and that is to help others.

God is good and knows what he is doing and in his time.
Amen bro. I think God uses our pain and suffering to help others..

Love ya bro!
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
Because I understand that salvation is secure. The only difference is that I also believe you can turn away from God after you came to Christ. So why would I keep on going in circles with you?

The fact that God states he will never leave us or forsake us is not only a NT concept. But yet He divorced Israel and gave them their freedom to lust after other gods. He will also do it with us if we so want. No amount of arguing will convince me otherwise.

On certain things we have to agree to disagree.
With all due respect you came to this thread to make a point as I recall.... so why did you make your statement.. to see if it would go unchallenged?

With regards to this ....
I believe you can turn away from God after you came to Christ.
A person has no ability to remove the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then ultimately it requires and act of God which you agree cannot happen
The fact that God states he will never leave us or forsake us
So explain to me how this works because I see contradiction myself.:unsure:
 
Dec 12, 2013
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You are ignoring what Genesis 17:14 literally says.
Keep dreaming Gong Show and keep rejecting the fact that the LAW justifies NO FLESH in his sight even though you, in your mind, believe that men can keep the law.....my bible teaches clearly that the laws purpose is to condemn, shut the mouths of men, give the knowledge of sin AND POINT TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of Christ IMPUTED BY FAITH which is the ONLY THING ON THIS PLANET that JUSTIFIES A MAN BEFORE GOD genius!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Why would you not want to see salvation is secure as taught in scripture, that is baffling to me?
The answer is obvious....and his mix of grace and law = water and oil.......exactly why the number is MANY that come before Jesus claiming to know him while having a right to enter...LORD, LORD HAVE WE NOT DONE X, Y, Z in your name <--- exactly what he and The Gong Show will peddle.....along with Ralph, Sea Perch, Judges, Fran, Studyman, Shamah, Peter, and all the other Jokers that blend faith PLUS anything to gain, maintain, embellish, or keep a losable salvation that must be maintained by man......!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I think we discussed separating out how God dealt with Israel as a nation, the Old Covenant and individuals.



So can we please move on... maybe something from the New Testament?
As long as he continues to conflate two covenants, and Isreal as a NATION with individual salvation while being totally dishonest with the fact that this is a complete biblical fallacy and contextually dishonest.....he will walk in his false gospel that is dependant UPON HIS SELF EFFORT.....
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Amen bro. I think God uses our pain and suffering to help others..

Love ya bro!
I'm convinced he does.

Given the sin sick world we live in there will always be pain and suffering.
And until Jesus comes back it is not going to change.

But he changes us to help others who he gives us.

Love ya bro as well. I thank God for you and what he has done in you and will continue to do so.

And I enjoy walking with you.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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1JOHN 3:23.
And this is His Commandment, That we should believe on The Name of His Son Jesus Christ,
and LOVE one another, as He gave us Commandment.
ACTS 16:31.
And they said, Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ, and you shalt be saved, and your house.
ACTS 2:38.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in The Name of Jesus Christ
for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of The Holy Ghost.
EPH. 1:14.
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.
MATT. 19:17.
And He said unto him, Why call you Me good? there is none good but One, that is, God:
but if you will enter into life, 'keep the Commandments'.

just for us personally, we believe that we must comply to these basic scriptures -
if any one else has other scriptures that elucidate on the subject, then we're here
to hear...
:):)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
I'm convinced he does.

Given the sin sick world we live in there will always be pain and suffering.
And until Jesus comes back it is not going to change.

But he changes us to help others who he gives us.

Love ya bro as well. I thank God for you and what he has done in you and will continue to do so.

And I enjoy walking with you.
As I you bro!
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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Most people on this thread attack me (like our dear brother DC) when you just mention the word “works”. I have met an atheist that is now the most vile creature on this planet that was a youth Pastors in a mega church in Johannesburg. The things coming out of his mouth is not even worth mentioning to you. Do I believe he was saved when I met him? No, he denounced Christ in so many ways that I felt sorry for him and every other person shouting “amen” in his presence. Can he be saved? Yes! A thousand times yes because God’s grace is enough.

God said in His word he will never leave us or forsake us… but we can turn our backs on Him.

So maybe the real question for me is; was he really saved to begin with? Only God can determine that.

MAYBE it could because you refuse to listen! Obedience is part of our Agape LOVE for GOD, and our Agape LOVE for the Brethren. IT NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF OUR SALVATION.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Keep dreaming Gong Show and keep rejecting the fact that the LAW justifies NO FLESH in his sight even though you, in your mind, believe that men can keep the law.....my bible teaches clearly that the laws purpose is to condemn, shut the mouths of men, give the knowledge of sin AND POINT TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of Christ IMPUTED BY FAITH which is the ONLY THING ON THIS PLANET that JUSTIFIES A MAN BEFORE GOD genius!
I already said it was faith that justifies. Faith requires one to obey what God commanded. If God commanded you to keep the Law, you show your faith by doing it.

A Jew cannot claim to have faith in God but refuse to get circumcised, once God commanded them to do so in Genesis 17:14.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I already said it was faith that justifies. Faith requires one to obey what God commanded. If God commanded you to keep the Law, you show your faith by doing it.

A Jew cannot claim to have faith in God but refuse to get circumcised, once God commanded them to do so in Genesis 17:14.
Try again and this time pay attention to the following....

Noah Was not circumcised
Abraham was deemed RIGHTEOUS BEFORE BEING WHACKED
and the biggie

Get some contextual honesty, scriptural integrity and study Galatians......