THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY
- Thread starter Sudakar
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You make some big leaps here from what I stated, consequently I am not sure how to respond except to say......
My overall point is that Lordship Salvation according to the definition you used in your OP, veers away from the simple Gospel as
Jesus is Saviour and adds biblical conditions to salvation, when in fact salvation is a gift.. not based on our promises or commitments.
My overall point is that Lordship Salvation according to the definition you used in your OP, veers away from the simple Gospel as
Jesus is Saviour and adds biblical conditions to salvation, when in fact salvation is a gift.. not based on our promises or commitments.
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It doesn't work like that, and the way you're questioning and nitpicking every little thing the aimless way you're doing, and never coming to a point of your own, kind of makes me question your understanding of what being saved truly is anyway. It seems a lot of time when I see this "works do not save" thing come up here it often times is not about works saving or not, it's more about does the believer ever have to do works. That's been my experience anyway, but I'm just going to speak about if works save. To start anyway.
Our works have NOTHING AT ALL to do with salvation, we are born fallen sinners that outside of Gods grace and direct revelation, we have no hope what so ever of even identifying what our main problem this existence is, let alone even be able to imagine any hope of repairing that problem. That problem of course being our spiritual disconnection with our Creator, severed and us born with a dead spirit. Without our Creator letting us know this, there would be no way for us to ever even conceive we were missing spirit, all we had to gauge with was the flesh. So this fruit, faith, proof question just misses the forest for the trees in my opinion. When we are saved, or when one is "born again" as our Savior puts it, through His atonement on the cross, because He who had never transgressed the Fathers will, or sinned. He never earned death for Himself, well He laid down His life and not only accepted the will of the Father up to death on the cross, but He also did so knowing that on that cross was were the Father would crush Him with the wrath that abide on all man kinds heads to make THE Way for men to be reconciled back to Him. So now when we are granted repentance, and our Savior draws us into truth, our dead spirits are resurrected back to life, and then reconciled to His Spirit, now making us whole again as we were created to, and forever indwelling us giving us a whole new life that now desires Him and righteousness, and now as whole new men and women, we WANT to go glorify our King as we are called to do and tell the others what we were blind to, as we are also commanded.
So do works save us? No of course not, there is nothing you can do to save yourself. Even if you have a "I choose you Jesus" conversion, guess what? He gets the credit and glory for that choice too. It's NOTHING we do, least any man can boast, but I do testify right now by my words, and by my actions and choices everyday, when this happens, you will work, just by the change in nature you have people will see from the outside. Something as small as the stone faced guy we saw everyday that never even looked my way, now he smiles and waves every time we see each other, he even helped me get my groceries inside during the rain one day. Those kinds of "works" will happen in anyone that knows Jesus in truth. I testify anyway. That's the power I know and see in His children.
Our works have NOTHING AT ALL to do with salvation, we are born fallen sinners that outside of Gods grace and direct revelation, we have no hope what so ever of even identifying what our main problem this existence is, let alone even be able to imagine any hope of repairing that problem. That problem of course being our spiritual disconnection with our Creator, severed and us born with a dead spirit. Without our Creator letting us know this, there would be no way for us to ever even conceive we were missing spirit, all we had to gauge with was the flesh. So this fruit, faith, proof question just misses the forest for the trees in my opinion. When we are saved, or when one is "born again" as our Savior puts it, through His atonement on the cross, because He who had never transgressed the Fathers will, or sinned. He never earned death for Himself, well He laid down His life and not only accepted the will of the Father up to death on the cross, but He also did so knowing that on that cross was were the Father would crush Him with the wrath that abide on all man kinds heads to make THE Way for men to be reconciled back to Him. So now when we are granted repentance, and our Savior draws us into truth, our dead spirits are resurrected back to life, and then reconciled to His Spirit, now making us whole again as we were created to, and forever indwelling us giving us a whole new life that now desires Him and righteousness, and now as whole new men and women, we WANT to go glorify our King as we are called to do and tell the others what we were blind to, as we are also commanded.
So do works save us? No of course not, there is nothing you can do to save yourself. Even if you have a "I choose you Jesus" conversion, guess what? He gets the credit and glory for that choice too. It's NOTHING we do, least any man can boast, but I do testify right now by my words, and by my actions and choices everyday, when this happens, you will work, just by the change in nature you have people will see from the outside. Something as small as the stone faced guy we saw everyday that never even looked my way, now he smiles and waves every time we see each other, he even helped me get my groceries inside during the rain one day. Those kinds of "works" will happen in anyone that knows Jesus in truth. I testify anyway. That's the power I know and see in His children.
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On the internet we are going into the world, as this is a site with an international fellowship. Should I only speak to people after I have ascertained that they are under what you consider to be the deception of Lordship salvation, in order to try to enlighten them? Perhaps that is your particular or specific calling, but why would you want me to take it up when it is not mine?
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For the third time (at least): I do not give much thought to Johnny Mac.
Since you consider him and his followers to be in such egregious error, then I can understand why you might feel it as a calling to pursue them and set them straight. There are plenty of false teachers. I am not in the habit of chasing them about. I prefer to pursue truth.
Since you consider him and his followers to be in such egregious error, then I can understand why you might feel it as a calling to pursue them and set them straight. There are plenty of false teachers. I am not in the habit of chasing them about. I prefer to pursue truth.
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