Prophecy, it’s not what most think.

[Nehemiah6]

Some are deceived and cannot see it until they make a clean break with millennialism and begin a fresh study of the topic.

Dave, it is you who must make a CLEAN BREAK from all the false teachings that you have absorbed from the doctrines of men (including Amillennialism, and many others false doctrines).

Getting back to the subject of prophecy, Christians should note:

1. Prophecy is essentially divine revelation given to the apostles and prophets by the Holy Spirit. Therefore the whole Bible is prophetic -- divinely inspired.

2. Prophecy includes BOTH forthtelling (proclamation) and foretelling (predicting the future well in advance). This is quite evident in the writings of the prophets. Also there is often no clear demarcation, and we must rightly divide the word of truth. Furthermore, some prophecies have a double application.

3. The bulk of the Bible is prophecy. Christ called the Old Testament "the Law and the Prophets", and the the Prophets occupy a major portion of the total Bible (including Revelation which is specifically called "the book of this prophecy").

4. All prophecy is meant to be taken literally, even when imagery is used. The images and symbols are generally explained.

5. The Bible presents us with a literal, future Millennium AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. Those who deny this preach heresy.

6. With the close of the book of Revelation, all genuine prophecies ceased, as Paul had already prophesied in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Those claiming to be prophets today are false prophets, and their false teachings are evidence of this.

 

[biker]

Jesus said the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. You say they do?

The Church is what CHRIST taught, not what men made into a Creed. If you don't know the difference, it makes perfect sense why your views are whacked.

 

[biker]

What does “creed” mean? It means beliefs, what one believes to be true. You give your own “creed” on here each time you post. Every time I read them I also “cringe” due to them being an unbiblical false gospel.

Then prove they are wrong by Scripture without using the English blundered version!

 

[biker]

English is a translation of the Greek, and the Greek is a translation of both Hebrew/Aramaic.
Show me from the Hebrew/Aramaic versions, the First Church had access to how I am wrong!

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Dave, it is you who must make a CLEAN BREAK from all the false teachings that you have absorbed from the doctrines of men (including Amillennialism, and many others false doctrines).

Getting back to the subject of prophecy, Christians should note:

1. Prophecy is essentially divine revelation given to the apostles and prophets by the Holy Spirit. Therefore the whole Bible is prophetic -- divinely inspired.

2. Prophecy includes BOTH forthtelling (proclamation) and foretelling (predicting the future well in advance). This is quite evident in the writings of the prophets. Also there is often no clear demarcation, and we must rightly divide the word of truth. Furthermore, some prophecies have a double application.

3. The bulk of the Bible is prophecy. Christ called the Old Testament "the Law and the Prophets", and the the Prophets occupy a major portion of the total Bible (including Revelation which is specifically called "the book of this prophecy").

4. All prophecy is meant to be taken literally, even when imagery is used. The images and symbols are generally explained.

5. The Bible presents us with a literal, future Millennium AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. Those who deny this preach heresy.

6. With the close of the book of Revelation, all genuine prophecies ceased, as Paul had already prophesied in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Those claiming to be prophets today are false prophets, and their false teachings are evidence of this.

The New Testament fulfills and verifies the promises and prophesies of the Old Testament. W/o the new testament the old testament remains unverified and misunderstood and the result of this is modern-day Judaism.

Likewise, w/o the old testament the new testament has no basis or foundation and would also be unverifiable and misunderstood,

East testament serves as a witness and a verification to the other testament. Only together can full truth and understanding be gained. This is how God's Word works.

For example Old testament prophesies such as Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac could not be fully understood until after God's sacrifice of his son Jesus.

So how do we correctly and fully understand and verify prophesy made in the new testament?

Answer: it can only be verified and fully understood by correctly matching it to the historical record without creating a biblical contradiction. Therefore, we can only verify and fully understand filfilled prophesy. Unfulfilled prophesy cannot be verified or fully understood.

CASE in Point: Jesus prophesied that the 2nd temple would be destroyed, but no where in the new testament is the destruction of the 2nd temple reported. So how do we verify what Jesus prophesied? We verify it by matching it to the historical record.

God's Word is not in a vacuum. The Creation is a witness and verification to God's Word. [Romans 1:19-20]
The historical record is also a witness and verification to God's Word.

Now here is an apples to apples comparison:
some proclaim that a literal third temple will be built in Jerusalem. But this is not verifiable because at present a third temple has never been built in Jerusalem. Therefore this is an unverifiable prediction and nothing more than pure speculation. Some insist Ezekiel's temple is a future, literal temple, while others insist Ezekiel's temple is a metaphorical temple in which paul writes about in Ephesians with Jesus being the chief cornerstone.

Thus far only the metaphorical temple in paul's ephesians is verifiable.

The Futurist View is unverifiable and purely speculative. It is nothing more concrete than that.

Conclusion: new testament prophesy can only be verified and fully understood by correctly matching it to the historical record without creating a biblical contradiction. Therefore, we can only verify and fully understand filfilled prophesy. Unfulfilled prophesy cannot be verified or fully understood.

 

[Truth7t7]

If you study the Kingdom of God in the gospels, you can clearly see it is spiritual. and the Pharisee's kingdom is physical. Jesus said you cannot see the kingdom unless born again. Anyone can see a physical kingdom. Moreover, if you look where the Millennium doctrine ends up, it rejects Christ and his atonement returning to Judaism and animal sacrifices.

I agree 100% Dave, falsely teaching that Jews ruling in a Millennial Kingdom on this earth is modern day Zionism.

 

[miknik5]

Prophecy, it’s not what most think.

People assume prophecy is to foretell the future. A means to present history in advance. But this is not what Jesus says. Prophecy is so we can look back in history and see God’s hand in bringing an obscure event to pass.

Jesus said; “I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe” (John 14:29). And again, “From henceforth I tell you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye may believe that I am he” (John 13:19)

Most of the prophecies about the coming of Christ were so vague, we could never base a detailed forecast on them until after fulfilled. John the Baptist stands out having said to be Elijah. Jesus stands out when said to be the Temple of God. Indeed, most today missed the Kingdom of God in the times of the Roman Empire thinking it would be physical instead of spiritual. And agree with the Pharisees that it is yet future and physical.

Robert Whitelaw says: When we analyze all these cases [of fulfilled prophecies], we find that the fulfillments may be classified into five categories as follows:

(a) Natural events, fulfilled as described by the writer; thirteen cases.

(b) Natural events, but not fulfilled exactly as described or foreseen; eleven cases.

(c) Fulfilled by events both natural and spiritual, but never exactly as described or likely foreseen: sixteen cases.

(d) Fulfilled by events in the spiritual realm only, but not as described or likely foreseen: forty-three cases.

(e) Fulfillments cited in the N. T. as the general tenor of ‘, what the prophets have said”, and always fulfilled by events in the spiritual realm: eleven cases.

Robert Whitelaw. THE GOSPEL MILLENNIUM and Obedience to Scripture.

So based on this it is hard to trust what we think a prophetic passage says until after God makes it clear by fulfilling it.

E.J. Young says; Now, it is contrary to the nature and genius of prophecy to reveal the future as detailed history. In all prophecy there is an element of obscurity and perhaps even of ambiguity. The Lord had distinctly said that He would speak to the prophets in a manner less clear and direct than that in which He would speak to Moses His Servant (Num. 12:1–8). With the prophets He would speak in dreams and visions and—so it would seem—in dark and enigmatic sayings. In revelations which were given as visions, therefore, we should expect an abundance of imagery and symbolism. There are many instances of such revelation in the prophetical books (e. g., Isa. 24–27; Joel 3:9–17; Zech. 14; Ps. 2; Amos 7–9).

Young, E. J. (1980). The Prophecy of Daniel: A Commentary (p. 21). Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.

Irenaeus of Lyons: “It is … more certain, and less hazardous to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises, and casting about for names that may present themselves.”

Forthtelling what has already been given us in HIS WORD...and NOT going beyond that...

 

[Truth7t7]

The New Testament fulfills and verifies the promises and prophesies of the Old Testament. W/o the new testament the old testament remains unverified and misunderstood and the result of this is modern-day Judaism.

Likewise, w/o the old testament the new testament has no basis or foundation and would also be unverifiable and misunderstood,

East testament serves as a witness and a verification to the other testament. Only together can full truth and understanding be gained. This is how God's Word works.

For example Old testament prophesies such as Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Isaac could not be fully understood until after God's sacrifice of his son Jesus.

So how do we correctly and fully understand and verify prophesy made in the new testament?

Answer: it can only be verified and fully understood by correctly matching it to the historical record without creating a biblical contradiction. Therefore, we can only verify and fully understand filfilled prophesy. Unfulfilled prophesy cannot be verified or fully understood.

CASE in Point: Jesus prophesied that the 2nd temple would be destroyed, but no where in the new testament is the destruction of the 2nd temple reported. So how do we verify what Jesus prophesied? We verify it by matching it to the historical record.

God's Word is not in a vacuum. The Creation is a witness and verification to God's Word. [Romans 1:19-20]
The historical record is also a witness and verification to God's Word.

Now here is an apples to apples comparison:
some proclaim that a literal third temple will be built in Jerusalem. But this is not verifiable because at present a third temple has never been built in Jerusalem. Therefore this is an unverifiable prediction and nothing more than pure speculation. Some insist Ezekiel's temple is a future, literal temple, while others insist Ezekiel's temple is a metaphorical temple in which paul writes about in Ephesians with Jesus being the chief cornerstone.

Thus far only the metaphorical temple in paul's ephesians is verifiable.

The Futurist View is unverifiable and purely speculative. It is nothing more concrete than that.

Conclusion: new testament prophesy can only be verified and fully understood by correctly matching it to the historical record without creating a biblical contradiction. Therefore, we can only verify and fully understand filfilled prophesy. Unfulfilled prophesy cannot be verified or fully understood.

I disagree, the future second coming of Jesus Christ is unfulfilled and I fully understand it.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

I disagree, the future second coming of Jesus Christ is unfulfilled and I fully understand it.

1) Christ will come again. That is a promise not a prophesy. You believe in this and that is good.
Christ will be victorious. That too is a promise. You believe in this and that is good as well.,

2) how these things will unfold you think you know how, but you cannot verify it. If you think I am wrong then prove me wrong by verifying what you think you fully understand.

 

[tourist]

Do you think the kingdom arrived as Daniel says, in the time of the Roman Empire? You either agree with Jesus or you reject him and side with the Pharisees.

No, it most certainly did not arrive. It seems to me that the choices are I agree with you or I reject Jesus. Jesus said that in the end the government will be on His shoulders. If His kingdom arrived in the time of the Roman Empire then I must conclude that Jesus did a lousy job governing.

 

[pottersclay]

I agree with DaveL That there isn't a gap year but we differ on belief in a literal millennium. The following is why I believe as you two with regards to a literal 1000 years. It's something that was taught to me a while back.

-----

Isaiah 46:9-10
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:


The word for "beginning" is the same word translated as "Genesis". So if we take this literally the end was declared from Genesis. Next, we have passages like...


Psalms 90:4
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.


2 Peter 3:8
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.


So 1000 years is like a day to the Almighty. But is this metaphorical or literal? Is there a 3rd testimony to confirm which this is? Yes, I believe it's the following passage:


Genesis 2:17; 5:5
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.


The Almighty doesn't lie. In the "day" Adam ate of the forbidden fruit he sure did died, that is, within the first 1000 years of mankind (specifically year 930), Adam died. The time of man began with the first man. So the formula "1000 years = 1 day" is a literal measurement of time from the Almighty's pov with regard to his judgment for Adam's sin...which means there should be other testimonies to prove this throughout the time of mankind.

This brings me back to Genesis and Isaiah's passage referenced above. Again, the end was told from Genesis; a day = 1000 years.

What you'll find when you measure out each of the major themes of scripture they match the events and the day of the creation story, to the exact millennium. Now, to measure years correctly we must remember that there is no such thing as a "zero" year for anyone or anything in the bible. So the birth year - or year of creation - of a person is "year 1". And the year a nation/kingdom is founded is also "year 1" of that nation/kingdom.

I think it's also important to understand that in order to count as a fulfillment, these events must occur within the millennium of the matching day of the creation story but can occur at any time in that millennium. In other words, it doesn't need to be at the very start of a millennium.

Every 1000 Years of man = 1 "Day" to the Almighty​

Day 1
Years 1 - 1000 (from Adam)

Day 2
1001 - 2000 Years From Adam

Day 3
2001 - 3000 YFA

Day 4
3001 - 4000 YFA

Day 5
4001 - 5000 YFA

Day 6
5001 - 6000 YFA

Day 7
6001 - 7000 YFA​

Day 1 Theme: Light separates from Darkness

During the 1st Millennium of man: "In the day" (930 YFA) Adam ate the forbidden fruit he died; death entered into the world; Good from Evil (sin) was established; sinful mankind was separated from paradise & personal presence of the Almighty.


Day 2 Theme: Earth's waters divided to reveal dry ground

2nd Millennium: The great flood occurs. After the flood, the waters from above divided from the waters below to reveal dry ground again. And if you count the birth years of each firstborn from Adam to Noah (remembering the rule that there are no "zero" years) we reach the year 1648 YFA, which puts us well within the 2nd 1000 years of man.


Day 3 Theme: The Seed, The Trees, bearing fruit on the land

3rd Millennium: Abraham was given the "promised seed" through barren Sarah. Isaac was given the "promised seed" through barren Rebecca. Jacob was given the "promised seed" through his barren wives. Israel multiplies into a great multitude of people in Egypt and was given the "promised land" bearing "great fruit". Counting the years of each firstborn from Noah to Abram through to Moses and through their time of sojourning & slavery until reaching Canaan, we find everything occurred between approx. 2032 YFA and 2990 YFA.

[I fully believe this is one of the reasons why the Almighty shared ages and years in scripture...so we can keep track of time.]


Day 4 Theme: Stars, Moon and Sun rule the Day and Night

4th Millennium: From approx 3013 YFA The judges, prophets, and kings ruled and judged Israel. The heavenly hosts are called the "stars of heaven" that preside as "princes" over the nations (remember the Prince of Persia that prevented Gabriel from delivering his message to Daniel). Finally, we have the arrival of the "Sun of Righteousness" with healing in his "wings" (i.e. the hem of his garment - Mal 4:2), The Messiah was born at the end of the 4th millennium of mankind on approx. 3998 YFA (or 3 BCE).


-----

If I stopped here these four witnesses should be enough to make a pretty strong case that the Almighty is indeed following His plan laid out in Genesis, to the very millennium of mankind, which means the 7th day of creation must correspond to a literal 1000-year reign of the Messiah as the prophesied "The Day of the Lord". The Sabbath rest.

...It also provides additional support for why I believe Revelation 13's beast of the sea and beast of the earth are already present on earth ruling for the last 2000 years. But I'll leave these events for a later discussion.

I like that...☺☺☺😉

 

[garee]

I'm a fence sitter when it comes to this subject. Where exactly did Jesus put this Pharisee doctrine to rest? If he did why did John mention it? When exactly did this 1000 year binding of Satan start? If you take say 34AD for Christs ascension and count one thousand years you arrive at suprise! 1034 AD I expect a lot of things happened at that date but what if anything occured that would lead one to believe that Satan was unbound then. The same applies to any other date one could start from.

That is one reason the Amil the signified understanding works the best. No sign as a wonder to seek after . The kind the evil generation children of no faith coming from God.

The Pharisee doctrine "law of the fathers" is put to rest through the gospel of faith. The Pharisee doctrine called the law of the fathers (out of sight out of mind) kill the misperceived competition was put to rest.

In Acts we are given a crystal clear picture. . The Pharisee doctrine a law of men hot on the pursuit of putting another under ground .They found out they would be shooting their own selves in the foot by making the the scripture without effect. . .

Paul was used to give us a proper understanding how we address the elders and deacons . he worshiped the God of the fathers and not the Pharisee doctrine worshiping men as the Father.. . not seen

Part #1. . . Acts 22: 3-4 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in the country of Cilicia. I grew up in this city. I was a student of Gamaliel,[ who carefully taught me everything about the law of our fathers. I was very serious about serving God, the same as all of you here today. I persecuted the people who followed the Way. Some of them were killed because of me. I arrested men and women and put them in jail.

Part #2. . . . .Acts 24: 5-6 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes: Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law.


Part #3. . . . Acts 24: 13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Sola scriptura the power of the gospel

 

[posthuman]

People assume prophecy is to foretell the future. A means to present history in advance. But this is not what Jesus says. Prophecy is so we can look back in history and see God’s hand in bringing an obscure event to pass.

If you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me!
(John 5:46)
​

Jesus tells them they could have understood Him in their present if they had understood Moses.
implicit here is that they did not truly understand what Moses had written.
later He tells them they will understand when they see Him coming with the clouds - as though looking back in history, at that time, but in the very hour John 5:46 was spoken they should have been able to see prophecy unfolding, if they had not been darkened in their understanding.

Simeon did ((Luke 2:30)).

 

[Dave-L]

​

If you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me!​

(John 5:46)​

​

Jesus tells them they could have understood Him in their present if they had understood Moses.
implicit here is that they did not truly understand what Moses had written.
later He tells them they will understand when they see Him coming with the clouds - as though looking back in history, at that time, but in the very hour John 5:46 was spoken they should have been able to see prophecy unfolding, if they had not been darkened in their understanding.

Simeon did ((Luke 2:30)).

You assume Moses only foretold the future.

 

[Dave-L]

No, it most certainly did not arrive. It seems to me that the choices are I agree with you or I reject Jesus. Jesus said that in the end the government will be on His shoulders. If His kingdom arrived in the time of the Roman Empire then I must conclude that Jesus did a lousy job governing.

Jesus said it arrived in the gospels. You and the Pharisees say it did not, thinking it is physical. Anyone can see a physical kingdom. But Jesus said on;y the born again can see it. Are you born again? How do you know if you cannot see the Kingdom?

 

[Dave-L]

The Church is what CHRIST taught, not what men made into a Creed. If you don't know the difference, it makes perfect sense why your views are whacked.

Your above statement is your personal creed. Book reports on the bible are creeds and the official book reports on the bible have yet to be refuted. By this they show us who the heretics are.

 

[Dave-L]

Dave, it is you who must make a CLEAN BREAK from all the false teachings that you have absorbed from the doctrines of men (including Amillennialism, and many others false doctrines).

Getting back to the subject of prophecy, Christians should note:

1. Prophecy is essentially divine revelation given to the apostles and prophets by the Holy Spirit. Therefore the whole Bible is prophetic -- divinely inspired.

2. Prophecy includes BOTH forthtelling (proclamation) and foretelling (predicting the future well in advance). This is quite evident in the writings of the prophets. Also there is often no clear demarcation, and we must rightly divide the word of truth. Furthermore, some prophecies have a double application.

3. The bulk of the Bible is prophecy. Christ called the Old Testament "the Law and the Prophets", and the the Prophets occupy a major portion of the total Bible (including Revelation which is specifically called "the book of this prophecy").

4. All prophecy is meant to be taken literally, even when imagery is used. The images and symbols are generally explained.

5. The Bible presents us with a literal, future Millennium AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. Those who deny this preach heresy.

6. With the close of the book of Revelation, all genuine prophecies ceased, as Paul had already prophesied in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Those claiming to be prophets today are false prophets, and their false teachings are evidence of this.

Who is false? Those who reject Jesus and side with the Pharisees in their physical kingdom teachings? Or those who stick with Jesus and his teachings on the kingdom?

 

[garee]

Dave, it is you who must make a CLEAN BREAK from all the false teachings that you have absorbed from the doctrines of men (including Amillennialism, and many others false doctrines).

Getting back to the subject of prophecy, Christians should note:

1. Prophecy is essentially divine revelation given to the apostles and prophets by the Holy Spirit. Therefore the whole Bible is prophetic -- divinely inspired.

2. Prophecy includes BOTH forthtelling (proclamation) and foretelling (predicting the future well in advance). This is quite evident in the writings of the prophets. Also there is often no clear demarcation, and we must rightly divide the word of truth. Furthermore, some prophecies have a double application.

3. The bulk of the Bible is prophecy. Christ called the Old Testament "the Law and the Prophets", and the the Prophets occupy a major portion of the total Bible (including Revelation which is specifically called "the book of this prophecy").

4. All prophecy is meant to be taken literally, even when imagery is used. The images and symbols are generally explained.

5. The Bible presents us with a literal, future Millennium AFTER the Second Coming of Christ. Those who deny this preach heresy.

6. With the close of the book of Revelation, all genuine prophecies ceased, as Paul had already prophesied in 1 Corinthians 13:8. Those claiming to be prophets today are false prophets, and their false teachings are evidence of this.

The whole of the bible is called the book of prophecy. The law and the prophets represent the perfect law of God Made up of two kinds of law. The letter of the law and the law of faith. The letter of the law death is signified by the prophet Moses . By itself it provides no power to produce eternal faith. The prophets like John the Baptist are sent in the Spirit of Elijah the Spirit of Christ the unseen power of god . The law of faith . The two making one new perfect law

Without parables Christ spoke not hiding the unseen gospel understanding form those who literalize the signified tongue of God . Whole time periods are used as a parable signifying the unseen eternal things .

We walk by faith .

 

[miknik5]

There are no more prophets...only witnesses who hold to the testimony of Jesus...
For the testimony of JESUS...IS...THE SPIRIT of PROPHECY.

Every prophet up until the time of JESUS, prophecied in hidden signs and representations of CHRIST...and all the prophecies are fulfilled in JESUS...

After that, HE made disciples, and Apostles whom HE sent to preach THE GOSPEL, by expounding the scriptures to show that JESUS was the ONE prophecied throughout the WORD OF TRUTH...

But, there is nothing that needs to be added to the story of our salvation in by and through JESUS...

Yes, there are things that have not yet come to pass, but those things we know already, will, at some time, come to pass..

We are not to go beyond what is written....

 

[miknik5]

The whole of the bible is called the book of prophecy. The law and the prophets represent the perfect law of God Made up of two kinds of law. The letter of the law and the law of faith. The letter of the law death is signified by the prophet Moses . By itself it provides no power to produce eternal faith. The prophets like John the Baptist are sent in the Spirit of Elijah the Spirit of Christ the unseen power of god . The law of faith . The two making one new perfect law

Without parables Christ spoke not hiding the unseen gospel understanding form those who literalize the signified tongue of God . Whole time periods are used as a parable signifying the unseen eternal things .

We walk by faith .

The whole of the BIBLE is the TESTIMONY of JESUS
The Law and the Prophets spoke of and pointed us to HIM