Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,441
#137,441
Guojing said:
I understand why you would express resistance, this thread is an echo chamber after all. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Maybe you do not like having your theory tested?

You know it should be able to withstand testing.
Why do you think some obscure pastor would have the truth?
 
E

EleventhHour

Guest
#137,445
#137,445
Guojing said:
So someone can explain to you, but they cannot understand it for you.

The only person that can overcome confirmation bias, is yourself.
Click to expand...
i know all about confirmation bias... we are talking about scripture and truth, make your case from scripture .... maybe you could start with how "works plus faith" was necessary for salvation in the Old Testament.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,446
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,446
EleventhHour said:
i know all about confirmation bias... we are talking about scripture and truth, make your case from scripture .... maybe you could start with how "works plus faith" was necessary for salvation in the Old Testament.
Click to expand...
Exodus 19:4-6, as I have used it before with you.

Genesis 17:14 too.

If you don't want to understand them, I cannot force you to.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#137,447
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#137,447
Guojing said:
So someone can explain to you, but they cannot understand it for you.

The only person that can overcome confirmation bias, is yourself.
Click to expand...

NO MOST OF US ARE OSAS Genuine Believers, and we understand it all, and We Have been TRYING to EXPLAIN it to YOU, and YOU cannot Understand it.

So the only conclusion we can sees, lies in this SCRIPTURE.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#137,449
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#137,449
VCO said:
NO MOST OF US ARE OSAS Genuine Believers, and we understand it all, and We Have been TRYING to EXPLAIN it to YOU, and YOU cannot Understand it.

So the only conclusion we can sees, lies in this SCRIPTURE.

1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Click to expand...
OSAS only came in with Paul's revelation of the mystery gospel of grace. I agree we cannot lose our salvation now in the BUT NOW time period.

I just disagree with all of you that it also applied in the OT, before Christ died on the cross. I don't "anticipate revelation".
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#137,450
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#137,450
Guojing said:
So you believe Man does not have free will?

Okay then.
Click to expand...
NO you got it all wrong as usual.

We chose with our free will, TO SURRENDER IT ALL TO JESUS, and HE runs our lives now, and WE TRUST HIM TOTALLY.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#137,451
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
#137,451
Guojing said:
OSAS only came in with Paul's revelation of the mystery gospel of grace. I agree we cannot lose our salvation now in the BUT NOW time period.

I just disagree with all of you that it also applied in the OT, before Christ died on the cross. I don't "anticipate revelation".
Click to expand...

WHY ARE YOU HERE ? ? ? JUST TO ARGUE ? ? ? ARGUING IS SIN, DON'T YOU KNOW ? ? ?
 
azamzimtoti

azamzimtoti

Banned
#137,452
Apr 3, 2019
1,495
768
113
#137,452
Guojing said:
I understand why you would express resistance, this thread is an echo chamber after all. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Nothing to do with echo chamber. 11 stands on her own understanding as do I and others. You stand on yours but so far it's been debunked by numerous posters.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#137,454
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
#137,454
VCO said:
I got news for you, . . . you are NOT even putting up a Good Fight.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree with you more. In my view people think it is a debate, and to be fair I don't have the time or the will to fight with people over the word of God. I can't convince them, only Ruach can.

There are more than 60 000 Christian denominations in the world, so more than likely you will find one of your "friends" at the end of a nasty reply, sooner rather than later.

God bless my friend.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#137,455
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
#137,455
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Just a reminder to myself...
God bless my friends
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,456
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#137,456
EleventhHour said:
What I read here is that the Cross Death Burial and Resurrection could have been averted if the Jews had believed?
You know that does not make sense.
Click to expand...
Especially since he was crucified from the foundation of the world and God began to reconcile the world unto himself BEFORE he cast down the world in creation!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#137,457
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#137,457
Guojing said:
No, Jesus would still have to die because it was prophesied in the OT.

But there are many other ways for Jesus to end up in the cross still, even if Israel accepted him. The Romans could have came in still since Jesus as their King would be a clear threat.

But all these "what ifs" don't matter since we had the benefit of being born in a future time and knowing what actually happened.
Click to expand...
This line of thought is ridiculous....the entire O.T. testified of Jesus, pointed to shed blood, being hung on a cross, and his redemption of humanity and why he need to DIE....you should get right with God pal and quit peddling a surmised dogma that sows confusion and doubt among those with no knowledge!
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#137,458
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
#137,458
dcontroversal said:
This line of thought is ridiculous....the entire O.T. testified of Jesus, pointed to shed blood, being hung on a cross, and his redemption of humanity and why he need to DIE....you should get right with God pal and quit peddling a surmised dogma that sows confusion and doubt among those with no knowledge!
Click to expand...
where’s the cross in the OT? Not the snake on a pole....or Isaac being offered...no cross. Shadows and types, yes, but only after the cross can we read the cross into those types. But at the time, Israel had no idea of the future cross.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#137,459
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
2,719
113
#137,459
Guojing said:
The contents of the gospel of the kingdom is found here https://christianchat.com/threads/not-by-works.146296/post-4258600
Click to expand...
OK, here it is, and it contains more error:

Guojing said:
The good news that the Son of God is finally sent to the flesh to Israel. Thru God's grace he came.

Israel needed to respond in faith to that grace, which is repent and be baptized.

If they respond in faith, Jesus as the Son of God would usher Israel into their promised kingdom.

It is then that their sins will finally be remitted (Acts 3:19)
Click to expand...
You have no clue what you are talking about, the Cross wasn't plan B if plan A failed.
 
GandalfTheWhite

GandalfTheWhite

Senior Member
#137,460
Jan 25, 2015
9,221
3,201
113
#137,460
John146 said:
where’s the cross in the OT? Not the snake on a pole....or Isaac being offered...no cross. Shadows and types, yes, but only after the cross can we read the cross into those types. But at the time, Israel had no idea of the future cross.
Click to expand...
If you look at the Hebrew, they knew it :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.