WHAT IS MOST URGENT?

[Micaiah-imla]

Matthew 5 is not a Christian passage, but a Jewish command.

Christians are called "Christians" because of Christ. So to conclude that there were no Christians present is strange; especially since Christ himself spoke out Matthew 5. Paul said this: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision in nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God" (1 Corinthians 7:19). Jesus spoke the words of God (John 3:34).

You do therefore greatly err; not knowing the scriptures.

 

[Sudakar]

I grasp the point you are trying to make as an inherent flaw in Lordship salvation, yes when you hear phrases "turn from sin" that is a

problem, however those that use those phrases probably do not realize the full implication of what they are stating.

True. Externally they show themselves to be grace teachers. But in order to manipulate people and enslave them, they use works indirectly by teaching works to prove saving faith instead of works for salvation without realising it's eventually a works based salvation theory they are teaching. Sadly, many Christians don't realise their manipulating tactic.

 

[Sudakar]

Christians are called "Christians" because of Christ. So to conclude that there were no Christians present is strange; especially since Christ himself spoke out Matthew 5. Paul said this: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision in nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God" (1 Corinthians 7:19). Jesus spoke the words of God (John 3:34).

You do therefore greatly err; not knowing the scriptures.

Is that your tactic to lower the standards of holiness to suit your lust & sinfulness in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?

 

[John146]

Is that your tactic to lower the standards of holiness to suit your lust & sinfulness in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?

You say some silly things. Does perfection mean sinlessness in the Bible?

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Is that your tactic to lower the standards of holiness to suit your lust & sinfulness in order to somehow prove you have saving faith?

Your tactic is to provoke unto hate and to evil works.

Try following this scripture:

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works (Hebrews 10:24).

 

[John146]

Christians are called "Christians" because of Christ. So to conclude that there were no Christians present is strange; especially since Christ himself spoke out Matthew 5. Paul said this: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision in nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God" (1 Corinthians 7:19). Jesus spoke the words of God (John 3:34).

You do therefore greatly err; not knowing the scriptures.

One becomes a Christian by believing in the d,b,r for sins...after the cross. There were no Christians before the cross.

You do therefore greatly err; not knowing the scriptures.😀

 

[Micaiah-imla]

One becomes a Christian by believing in the d,b,r for sins...after the cross. There were no Christians before the cross.

You do therefore greatly err; not knowing the scriptures.

Then show me the scripture that explains that Jesus spoke to Jews only, not to Christians.

 

[Sudakar]

You say some silly things. Does perfection mean sinlessness in the Bible?

You mean to say Father is not sinless? Don't be silly.

 

[Sudakar]

Your tactic is to provoke unto hate and to evil works.

Try following this scripture:

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works (Hebrews 10:24).

I don't have to tactically provoke you unto hate and to evil works. According to the standard mentioned in mathew 5:48, you are forever filthy in the sight of God!!

Only Christ is perfect according to mathew 5:48.

 

[John146]

You mean to say Father is not sinless? Don't be silly.

can something be perfect without being sinless?

 

[John146]

Then show me the scripture that explains that Jesus spoke to Jews only, not to Christians.

Uhhhh, one has to be in Christ through His d,b,r for sins, so how was that possible before the cross? Not even the disciples knew about the cross.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

When I hear turn from sin I dont automatically assume lordship salvation or whatever but I assume it as a very brief way to say repent and turn to the Lord.

Repentance and obedience is part of the Christian walk which does involve turning from sin. Scripture calls for it often.

The key thing to take away is that you as a believer are covered in grace and justified through Christ. In this God sees you as righteous and even forgets your sins. So we are now in a sanctification process. Sin is in context a relational inhibitor once your faith is in Christ. The punishment of sin has been paid. Meaning you are still going to be battling flesh and obedience in Spirit. And if you focus too much on self or the flesh then sin will be prevalent and it will relationally strain your connection to God.

This either makes you a choked and barely fruitful Christian or a easy target for Satan. So scripture calls for us to abide in the living vine. Christ is our living water and bread of life. In Christ we are living. As a believer, sin separates us relationally and that can be dangerous all in itself.

This is my view of scripture. Others may differ slightly as you have hyper grace, sin perfectionism, OSAS, works salvation, your off shoots of Arminianism, or some mixture of these and probably more that are not at the top of my mind.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

can something be perfect without being sinless?

Yes. Study the picture. But technically it is called righteous. We are not perfected until glorification.

 

[garee]

What do lordship Salvationists claim?

Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Lack of works means one is not saved.

Thus lordship salvation preaches the heresy of works based salvation but their teachers pretend to be teachers of grace.

They distort the true gospel of grace and millions of church-goers are deceived.

So let's preach the true gospel to those church-goers who haven't heard the true gospel in order for them to be saved. THIS IS MOST URGENT.

You may post your opinions.

I would think all Christians are apologist. We defend the faith as it is written which works in us to defend us. It is called the Armor of God and is described as putting on and keeping it on . Believers protecting it with all of ones new soul heart and mind. . It is he who proves those who are faithful

Roman 3 I beleive helps establish the rule of proving (on going) The law of faith. His faith not of our own self. A perfect loving law.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-4 KJ


It is true that some Jews were not faithful to God. But will that stop God from doing what he promised? 4 No, even if everyone else is a liar, God will always do what he says. As the Scriptures say about him,“ You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win when people accuse you.” Romans 3:3-4 ERV

 

[JaumeJ]

You look to Him for your perfection by grace OR seek to do works according to mathew 5:48 in order to be perfect and prove you have saving faith?

The first part of your comment is insightful, however you do not yet comprehend what tworks are for the faithful.

No man is aable to give the Maker anything other than the sacrifice of thanksgiving. Works will come to any of the faithful by the Holy Spirt, that is from our Maker.

Many believe being given to work a miraacle is works, and it is, but just simply waiting for Jesus to return in faith is Godly work. Prayer, teaching and sharing with others, from above. Then the more spectacular, but even prayer is works.
Should I decide to do God a favor by helping a poor man, that is not owrks, but when God directs us to do something, it is works, but His doing, through us, not us.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I would think all Christians are apologist. We defend the faith as it is written which works in us to defend us. It is called the Armor of God and is described as putting on and keeping it on . Believers protecting it with all of ones new soul heart and mind. . It is he who proves those who are faithful

Roman 3 I beleive helps establish the rule of proving (on going) The law of faith. His faith not of our own self. A perfect loving law.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans 3:3-4 KJ


It is true that some Jews were not faithful to God. But will that stop God from doing what he promised? 4 No, even if everyone else is a liar, God will always do what he says. As the Scriptures say about him,“ You will be proved right in what you say, and you will win when people accuse you.” Romans 3:3-4 ERV

I do believe we must put on the Armor of God but I'm not sure I agree with the interpretation of Romans 3:3-4.

Are you saying all Jews will be saved? Because God's promises include both salvation for the believer but also condemnation for the unbeliever Jew or Gentile alike.

Hebrews 3:12-19 New International Version (NIV)
12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end. 15 As has just been said:
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”[a]
16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
4Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

Holding on to our conviction to the end requires faith. God's faithful in his promise of salvation but also just in His dealings with unbelief.

 

[Dino246]

Sudakar, go and remove the log from your own eye.

 

[Sudakar]

can something be perfect without being sinless?

Don't confuse between imputation and works.

 

[Sudakar]

Uhhhh, one has to be in Christ through His d,b,r for sins, so how was that possible before the cross? Not even the disciples knew about the cross.

The elect knew and had faith about Christ's Messiahship/Mediatorship even before the cross.

 

[Sudakar]

When I hear turn from sin I dont automatically assume lordship salvation or whatever but I assume it as a very brief way to say repent and turn to the Lord.

Repentance and obedience is part of the Christian walk which does involve turning from sin. Scripture calls for it often.

The key thing to take away is that you as a believer are covered in grace and justified through Christ. In this God sees you as righteous and even forgets your sins. So we are now in a sanctification process. Sin is in context a relational inhibitor once your faith is in Christ. The punishment of sin has been paid. Meaning you are still going to be battling flesh and obedience in Spirit. And if you focus too much on self or the flesh then sin will be prevalent and it will relationally strain your connection to God.

This either makes you a choked and barely fruitful Christian or a easy target for Satan. So scripture calls for us to abide in the living vine. Christ is our living water and bread of life. In Christ we are living. As a believer, sin separates us relationally and that can be dangerous all in itself.

This is my view of scripture. Others may differ slightly as you have hyper grace, sin perfectionism, OSAS, works salvation, your off shoots of Arminianism, or some mixture of these and probably more that are not at the top of my mind.

So you have ceased from sinning according to mathew 5:48?