THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY
- Thread starter Sudakar
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Ephesians 2
8 By grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ~FOR~ good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
An unbeliever cannot do the kind of "good works" that the Bible speaks of, for the simple reason that an unbeliever neither knows nor can he/she understand God (neither can they know what His will for them is, again, because they do not know Him, nor does He know them .. cf Matthew 7:22-23; John 17:3). And even if they did understand what His will for them was, they would not believe or obey it, because they would consider it to be nothing but foolishness.
1 Corinthians 1
18 The word of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
I'm worried about you Sudakar. In case you do not already know, no one is your enemy here (though it seems like you may believe that we are for some reason).
God bless you!
~Deut
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Ty @Deuteronomy
Ephesians 2:10 was what was on my mind in one of my posts, but I couldn't recall the exact reference, just that there are plenty of moments like that in my life that just seem like the Lord. Cool meetings, conversations, random acts of kindness that just sort of "find me"
I am open to referencing if someone asks, just that I have scripture memorized in a very atypical fashion and have to look for what I am referencing. Which I like the extra search oftentimes and additional context scanning. It's like a scavenger hunt, but I digress.
Ephesians 2:10 was what was on my mind in one of my posts, but I couldn't recall the exact reference, just that there are plenty of moments like that in my life that just seem like the Lord. Cool meetings, conversations, random acts of kindness that just sort of "find me"
I am open to referencing if someone asks, just that I have scripture memorized in a very atypical fashion and have to look for what I am referencing. Which I like the extra search oftentimes and additional context scanning. It's like a scavenger hunt, but I digress.
-
1
- Show all
WHY DO LORDSHIP SALVATIONISTS KEEP REPEATING, "TRUE SALVATION IS ACCOMPANIED BY GOOD WORKS"?
They assume wrongly that only true salvation & saving faith is accompanied by good works. But the fact is, even the unsaved do great good works right from nursing their babies to philanthropy. Thus good works has nothing to do with true salvation or saving faith.
So their statement, "True salvation is accompanied by good works" really means "None has saving faith without good works". This is nothing but pure "works based salvation" heresy presented in an unidentifiable manner & is a tool to enslave & manipulate church-goers to buy their books, pay offerings etc.
They assume wrongly that only true salvation & saving faith is accompanied by good works. But the fact is, even the unsaved do great good works right from nursing their babies to philanthropy. Thus good works has nothing to do with true salvation or saving faith.
So their statement, "True salvation is accompanied by good works" really means "None has saving faith without good works". This is nothing but pure "works based salvation" heresy presented in an unidentifiable manner & is a tool to enslave & manipulate church-goers to buy their books, pay offerings etc.
Hello again Sudakar, only those works which are done in specific accord with God's will are considered to be "good" by Him (of course).
Works that are 'not' done in faith/in Christ/in obedience to His will, are sinful (no matter how good they may seem to us and/or to others in the moment), and again, no one is capable of doing God's will who does not already know Him/have a relationship with Him (as the Scripture tells us plainly .. see the bottom of this post).
~Deut
p.s. - have you met with your pastor to see what he has to say about all of this yet If you haven't, I'd recommend that you do .. Hebrews 13:17 (it's what I do whenever I'm struggling with something in my life). Not only are pastors good at giving us great counsel and advice, when we talk to them/tell them what we're having problems with, it helps them know what/how they can pray for us too
Works that are 'not' done in faith/in Christ/in obedience to His will, are sinful (no matter how good they may seem to us and/or to others in the moment), and again, no one is capable of doing God's will who does not already know Him/have a relationship with Him (as the Scripture tells us plainly .. see the bottom of this post).
~Deut
p.s. - have you met with your pastor to see what he has to say about all of this yet
If you haven't, I'd recommend that you do .. Hebrews 13:17 (it's what I do whenever I'm struggling with something in my life). Not only are pastors good at giving us great counsel and advice, when we talk to them/tell them what we're having problems with, it helps them know what/how they can pray for us too 1 Corinthians 2
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
-
1
- Show all
Hello again Sudakar, only those works which are done in specific accord with God's will are considered to be "good" by Him (of course).
Works that are 'not' done in faith/in Christ/in obedience to His will, are sinful (no matter how good they may seem to us and/or to others in the moment), and again, no one is capable of doing God's will who does not already know Him/have a relationship with Him (as the Scripture tells us plainly .. see the bottom of this post).
~Deut
p.s. - have you met with your pastor to see what he has to say about all of this yet If you haven't, I'd recommend that you do .. Hebrews 13:17 (it's what I do whenever I'm struggling with something in my life). Not only are pastors good at giving us great counsel and advice, when we talk to them/tell them what we're having problems with, it helps them know what/how they can pray for us too
Works that are 'not' done in faith/in Christ/in obedience to His will, are sinful (no matter how good they may seem to us and/or to others in the moment), and again, no one is capable of doing God's will who does not already know Him/have a relationship with Him (as the Scripture tells us plainly .. see the bottom of this post).
~Deut
p.s. - have you met with your pastor to see what he has to say about all of this yet
If you haven't, I'd recommend that you do .. Hebrews 13:17 (it's what I do whenever I'm struggling with something in my life). Not only are pastors good at giving us great counsel and advice, when we talk to them/tell them what we're having problems with, it helps them know what/how they can pray for us too 1 Corinthians 2
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Secondly you preach "works based salvation" because you have no faith. Then why do you talk about doing good works based on faith? Sounds funny!!
As I believe I've already mentioned, people are capable of doing good things for others, and they are called "good" by us when they do so, but what ~we~ consider to be "good" is not the basis for what God considers to be "good".
No, I don't. Rather (as I've already said in this thread), we are saved by God's grace through faith, APART from anything that 'we' do. In fact, until a person is saved, he/she is incapable of doing good works, because good works can only be done in accordance with God's will (which I also mentioned above, at length).
You know, in some ways this thread is like 50 of us standing around a dog, and 49 of us say, "yep, it's a dog", but you disagree with the rest of us and say, "you're all wrong, it's a giraffe". And no matter what else any of the 49 of us say to you, from it's a dog, to have a nice day, to you are sure one handsome dude, or even, God bless you, you just keep pasting in the same words, "It's a giraffe", over and over and over again, no matter what we've said or what point we've trying to make is.
Why? Do you think that you'll win the argument by wearing us out and getting most of us to finally admit that it's a giraffe, when we all know, w/o question, that it's not, that it's a dog
Well, you might get one or two of us to give up like that if all we were talking about was "dogs and giraffes", but you're talking to a group of Christians about matters concerning salvation, so I don't believe that you'll get a single one of us to give in (but I suppose that fact will not keep you from trying, of course).
Do you think that if you could sway some of us and get us to believe that what we do as Christians, doesn't matter to God, that you'll be one step closer to getting Him to believe it too
I'm done for now.
~Deut
p.s. - so that you don't need to waste your time replying to this post, here, let me do it for you.
No, I don't. Rather (as I've already said in this thread), we are saved by God's grace through faith, APART from anything that 'we' do. In fact, until a person is saved, he/she is incapable of doing good works, because good works can only be done in accordance with God's will (which I also mentioned above, at length).
You know, in some ways this thread is like 50 of us standing around a dog, and 49 of us say, "yep, it's a dog", but you disagree with the rest of us and say, "you're all wrong, it's a giraffe". And no matter what else any of the 49 of us say to you, from it's a dog, to have a nice day, to you are sure one handsome dude, or even, God bless you, you just keep pasting in the same words, "It's a giraffe", over and over and over again, no matter what we've said or what point we've trying to make is.
Why? Do you think that you'll win the argument by wearing us out and getting most of us to finally admit that it's a giraffe, when we all know, w/o question, that it's not, that it's a dog
Well, you might get one or two of us to give up like that if all we were talking about was "dogs and giraffes", but you're talking to a group of Christians about matters concerning salvation, so I don't believe that you'll get a single one of us to give in (but I suppose that fact will not keep you from trying, of course
). Do you think that if you could sway some of us and get us to believe that what we do as Christians, doesn't matter to God, that you'll be one step closer to getting Him to believe it too
I'm done for now.
~Deut
p.s. - so that you don't need to waste your time replying to this post, here, let me do it for you.
"Nope, It's A Giraffe"
As I believe I've already mentioned, people are capable of doing good things for others, and they are called "good" by us when they do so, but what ~we~ consider to be "good" is not the basis for what God considers to be "good".
No, I don't. Rather (as I've already said in this thread), we are saved by God's grace through faith, APART from anything that 'we' do. In fact, until a person is saved, he/she is incapable of doing good works, because good works can only be done in accordance with God's will (which I also mentioned above, at length).
You know, in some ways this thread is like 50 of us standing around a dog, and 49 of us say, "yep, it's a dog", but you disagree with the rest of us and say, "you're all wrong, it's a giraffe". And no matter what else any of the 49 of us say to you, from it's a dog, to have a nice day, to you are sure one handsome dude, or even, God bless you, you just keep pasting in the same words, "It's a giraffe", over and over and over again, no matter what we've said or what point we've trying to make is.
Why? Do you think that you'll win the argument by wearing us out and getting most of us to finally admit that it's a giraffe, when we all know, w/o question, that it's not, that it's a dog
Well, you might get one or two of us to give up like that if all we were talking about was "dogs and giraffes", but you're talking to a group of Christians about matters concerning salvation, so I don't believe that you'll get a single one of us to give in (but I suppose that fact will not keep you from trying, of course).
Do you think that if you could sway some of us and get us to believe that what we do as Christians, doesn't matter to God, that you'll be one step closer to getting Him to believe it too
I'm done for now.
~Deut
p.s. - so that you don't need to waste your time replying to this post, here, let me do it for you.
No, I don't. Rather (as I've already said in this thread), we are saved by God's grace through faith, APART from anything that 'we' do. In fact, until a person is saved, he/she is incapable of doing good works, because good works can only be done in accordance with God's will (which I also mentioned above, at length).
You know, in some ways this thread is like 50 of us standing around a dog, and 49 of us say, "yep, it's a dog", but you disagree with the rest of us and say, "you're all wrong, it's a giraffe". And no matter what else any of the 49 of us say to you, from it's a dog, to have a nice day, to you are sure one handsome dude, or even, God bless you, you just keep pasting in the same words, "It's a giraffe", over and over and over again, no matter what we've said or what point we've trying to make is.
Why? Do you think that you'll win the argument by wearing us out and getting most of us to finally admit that it's a giraffe, when we all know, w/o question, that it's not, that it's a dog
Well, you might get one or two of us to give up like that if all we were talking about was "dogs and giraffes", but you're talking to a group of Christians about matters concerning salvation, so I don't believe that you'll get a single one of us to give in (but I suppose that fact will not keep you from trying, of course
). Do you think that if you could sway some of us and get us to believe that what we do as Christians, doesn't matter to God, that you'll be one step closer to getting Him to believe it too
I'm done for now.
~Deut
p.s. - so that you don't need to waste your time replying to this post, here, let me do it for you.
"Nope, It's A Giraffe"
Secondly, only the elect can acknowledge confession of Christ's atonement as only proof they have saving faith. The rest who trust in works for the same aren't yet saved!