THE LIE IN LORDSHIP SALVATION THEORY

[Sudakar]

Interesting. It seems the non-lordship camp removes obeying/following Jesus from being a part of salvation. All of the disciples knew it was vital. I bet the flesh loves that theology.

Flesh loves the theology of desperately hiding the truth that proving one has faith by works is indeed a works based salvation heresy!!

 

[Sudakar]

Hello again Sudakar, no only is God the One who declares us just, unlike us, He's able to see/know our hearts. So God needs no proof of who is and who isn't saved ............................... but we do .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5!


1. You said, "only the elect can acknowledge confession of Christ's atonement"? Please elaborate/what does that statement of yours mean, exactly

2. How do we know if someone is "elect" or not

Thanks

~Deut

Ephesians 1​

4 He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.​

James 2​

18 Someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”​

​

Claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Their conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.

Repent from the heresy of works based salvation and be saved. Don't reject the gospel.

 

[Sudakar]

I’m pretty sure you don’t understand the poster, Preacher4truth.

Repent from works based salvation. Don't shun the gospel.

 

[DorothyMae]

Flesh loves the theology of desperately hiding the truth that proving one has faith by works is indeed a works based salvation heresy!!

Nonsense. The flesh loves pleasure. Works are not pleasure at all. The flesh a no works are necessary position.

 

[DorothyMae]

Repent from works based salvation. Don't shun the gospel.

You avoid questions and statements you can’t answer or don’t like, doncha?

 

[Sudakar]

Nonsense. The flesh loves pleasure. Works are not pleasure at all. The flesh a no works are necessary position.

Nonsense. Flesh loves the self righteousness of trying to prove they have saving faith by their works!!

 

[Sudakar]

You avoid questions and statements you can’t answer or don’t like, doncha?

You run around without repenting from the self righteousness of trying to prove you have saving faith by your works, donchyoo?

 

[DorothyMae]

Nonsense. Flesh loves the self righteousness of trying to prove they have saving faith by their works!!

This is what those who resist obeying Him tell themselves. The more self-righteous believers I ever met were those who actually did not think Jesus needs to be their Lord to belong to Him. The proudest ones boasted the loudest that they had no righteousness but were “the most humble” as all the right deeds in their life Jesus did.

We are probably done here, Sudakar. You won’t answer questions put to you lest you realize something is true you have already conveniently rejected.

 

[Sudakar]

This is what those who resist obeying Him tell themselves. The more self-righteous believers I ever met were those who actually did not think Jesus needs to be their Lord to belong to Him. The proudest ones boasted the loudest that they had no righteousness but were “the most humble” as all the right deeds in their life Jesus did.

We are probably done here, Sudakar. You won’t answer questions put to you lest you realize something is true you have already conveniently rejected.

This is what those who reject Christ's works to save tell themselves. They reject the truth as follows:
Your claim 1: Works prove saving faith.
Your claim 2: Saving faith saves.
Your conclusion: Lack of works means no salvation.

Thus you preach the heresy of works based salvation.

 

[Deuteronomy]

...only the elect can acknowledge confession of Christ's atonement as only proof they have saving faith. The rest who trust in works for the same aren't yet saved!

1. You said, "only the elect can acknowledge confession of Christ's atonement"? What does that mean, exactly

2. How do we know if someone is "elect" or not

~Deut

 

[JohnRH]

"Turn away from sins and idols" = "cease from sin". Repentance is a TURNING AWAY from evil and a TURNING TO God and Christ.

For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God (1 Thess 1:9)

How ye turned to God from idols to serve ... It doesn't say they turned to God from idols in order to become saved. They were already saved at this particular point of turning; they became followers of the Lord, having received the word. They received the word (believed and were saved) first. Then they became followers. They didn't resolve to serve in order to become saved, as LS proponents claim.

And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts* brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. (Acts 19:18,19)

They believed first (and consequently were saved). Then they burned their books. Burning their books played no role in them becoming saved.

Salvation is free. Eternal life is the gift of God. It's not an up-front payment in exchange for future service.

 

[JohnRH]

Interesting. It seems the non-lordship camp removes obeying/following Jesus from being a part of salvation.

I don't think it "removes" it. I think it tries to better define it. When an unsaved person believes on the Lord Jesus for salvation, they're obeying/following Him in that very act. Once they're saved, they're a new creature whose propensity is nothing but obeying/following Him.

I bet the flesh loves that theology.

Actually the flesh has no use for the freeness of salvation because it can never receive it. Flesh ... cannot inherit the kingdom of God
1 Cor 15:50 (KJV)
The spirit, on the other hand, has perfect solace in the assurance of an eternal salvation that can never be lost.

 

[JohnRH]

"Lordship salvation mixes up the freeness of salvation and who paid the full price for it, with the costliness of discipleship and who pays that cost"

Not necessarily. It depends on who you ask. I lean toward Lordship salvation myself, but then again I reject the heretical interpretations. The bottom line is that when you receive Jesus Messiah, you receive Him as Lord. Receiving him a Savior alone and then trotting off on your merry way, never to cross paths with Him again is absolutely inadequate as the Scripture makes perfectly clear time and time again.

I don't think your hypothetical person exists. He receives Christ as Savior and then never crosses paths with Him again???
If he receives Christ as Savior he becomes a child of God (John 1:12). When he runs off the path, Father outruns him and diverts his path straight to the woodshed (Heb. 12:6). Ouch.

 

[mailmandan]

James talks about faith in one God and not about the faith in Christ's atonement which saves apart from works.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

 

[mailmandan]

Repent from works based salvation. Don't shun the gospel.

What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

 

[Sudakar]

What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

Christ's atonement which saves is the gospel. Trying to prove one has saving faith by his good works is a denial of the gospel.

 

[Sudakar]

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

James 2:21: "Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?"

But Abraham was considered righteous even before he offered his son on the altar.

 

[Sudakar]

I don't think your hypothetical person exists. He receives Christ as Savior and then never crosses paths with Him again???
If he receives Christ as Savior he becomes a child of God (John 1:12). When he runs off the path, Father outruns him and diverts his path straight to the woodshed (Heb. 12:6). Ouch.

Faith is credited as righteousness (being in the woodshed) not works.

The diversion of path is turning from unbelief in His grace to faith in His grace.

 

[Sudakar]

1. You said, "only the elect can acknowledge confession of Christ's atonement"? What does that mean, exactly

2. How do we know if someone is "elect" or not

~Deut

Faith is the assurance/confidence one is an elect of God.

 

[mailmandan]

Christ's atonement which saves is the gospel. Trying to prove one has saving faith by his good works is a denial of the gospel.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.