Re: Thread On Catholic And Other Religions

[GaryA]

People need to understand - and never forget - the difference between "an individual person who attends or is a member of a Catholic church" and the organizational 'system' which is 'The Catholic Church'.

If an individual 'Catholic' person is truly born-again (which is certainly possible, as it is between them and God) - then, they are a brother or sister in Christ - even if they choose to subscribe to the "false system" which has never actually been [truly] 'Christian' - from its inception unto this very day.

Those of you who are Catholic need to understand that no one here on CC (to my knowledge) is trying or intending to "slam" any Catholic people - rather, they are against the Catholic system.

Please try to understand this.

You may just find that we know what we are talking about and are trying to help you open your eyes so that you may see with clarity what we already know that The Catholic Church does not want you to see.

 

[GaryA]

If an individual 'Catholic' person is truly born-again (which is certainly possible, as it is between them and God) - then, they are a brother or sister in Christ - . . .

One of the things you also need to understand - that many on here may try to get across to you - is that it will most likely be extremely rare for a Catholic - under the full teaching of Catholicism (the system) - to be [truly] saved (and thus born-again) without an outside influence to correct the error that Catholicism teaches - which does not even support the idea that a person even can be born-again. (correct?)

 

[GaryA]

One of the things you also need to understand - that many on here may try to get across to you - is that it will most likely be extremely rare for a Catholic - under the full teaching of Catholicism (the system) - to be [truly] saved (and thus born-again) without an outside influence to correct the error that Catholicism teaches - which does not even support the idea that a person even can be born-again. (correct?)

In other words -- out of a billion practicing Catholics (under the tight-reign clenches of Catholicism) - how many are likely to be truly converted to Christ?

Very precious few.

 

[Jackson123]

One of the things you also need to understand - that many on here may try to get across to you - is that it will most likely be extremely rare for a Catholic - under the full teaching of Catholicism (the system) - to be [truly] saved (and thus born-again) without an outside influence to correct the error that Catholicism teaches - which does not even support the idea that a person even can be born-again. (correct?)

I am a siner my self and not a judge so I am not intend to judge

But to question.

Is that posible for a man love Jesus but pray to Mary?

If so, is Holy Spirit in that man not say something?

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

I may wrong but To me, this oaragraph politely replace Jesus with catholic church.

Bible say No salvation apart from jesus

RCC modified into

No salvation apart from RCC

When I buy a food I chose No gmo, No genetic modified.

I like to say to my catholic brother and sister to buy No SMO(Savior modified)

 

[GaryA]

In other words -- out of a billion practicing Catholics (under the tight-reign clenches of Catholicism) - how many are likely to be truly converted to Christ?

Very precious few.

Why do I say this?

Because it is true - it is what we are trying to get you to see.

Are you listening?

 

[GaryA]

I am a siner my self and not a judge so I am not intend to judge

But to question.

Is that posible for a man love Jesus but pray to Mary?

If so, is Holy Spirit in that man not say something?

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

I may wrong but To me, this oaragraph politely replace Jesus with catholic church.

Bible say No salvation apart from jesus

RCC modified into

No salvation apart from RCC

When I buy a food I chose No gmo, No genetic modified.

I like to say to my catholic brother and sister to buy No SMO(Savior modified)

Exactly!

 

[GaryA]

If you are a Catholic reading this - and, you are with certainty born-again - then, you are blessed to have found the truth outside of what Catholicism teaches. However, that does not mean that a billion other Catholics will...

Remember - it is Catholicism - the Catholic system - that is in question.

 

[JaumeJ]

Catholics do not seek forgiveness through Jesus alone. They also pray to dead saints, when God's Word forbids praying to anyone except for to Himself.
Matt 4:10

10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
KJV

Perhaps there Is understanding in your response, however it has no bearing on my post.

 

[Bede]

Thanks for your loving response

At least It prove that catholic is not Christian. Christian try to show love.

You didn't show any love in your post so according to you, you are not a christian.

 

[Bede]

People need to understand - and never forget - the difference between "an individual person who attends or is a member of a Catholic church" and the organizational 'system' which is 'The Catholic Church'.

If an individual 'Catholic' person is truly born-again (which is certainly possible, as it is between them and God) - then, they are a brother or sister in Christ - even if they choose to subscribe to the "false system" which has never actually been [truly] 'Christian' - from its inception unto this very day.

Those of you who are Catholic need to understand that no one here on CC (to my knowledge) is trying or intending to "slam" any Catholic people - rather, they are against the Catholic system.

Please try to understand this.

You may just find that we know what we are talking about and are trying to help you open your eyes so that you may see with clarity what we already know that The Catholic Church does not want you to see.

All Catholics are born again.

 

[Bede]

Prejudged? I've read the entire Bible many times. The immaculate conception of Mary simply isn't there. I have also read enough material on the Catholic "church" to know what it holds dear. I need prove nothing to you.

Can you explain:

1. What you understand by the doctrine of the Immacualte Conception.

2. How it contradicts scripture.

Thank you.

 

[Bede]

I am a siner my self and not a judge so I am not intend to judge

But to question.

Is that posible for a man love Jesus but pray to Mary?

Let's start with your first question.

The answer is yes, as long as you understand what is mean by pray.

A little conundrum:
Catholics do pray to Mary
Catholics don’t pray to Mary
Contradictory as it may seem, these two statements are both true.

 

[Bede]

I am a siner my self and not a judge so I am not intend to judge

But to question.

Is that posible for a man love Jesus but pray to Mary?

If so, is Holy Spirit in that man not say something?

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

I may wrong but To me, this oaragraph politely replace Jesus with catholic church.

Bible say No salvation apart from jesus

RCC modified into

No salvation apart from RCC

When I buy a food I chose No gmo, No genetic modified.

I like to say to my catholic brother and sister to buy No SMO(Savior modified)

 

[Bede]

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."

The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."

I may wrong but To me, this oaragraph politely replace Jesus with catholic church.

Bible say No salvation apart from jesus

RCC modified into

No salvation apart from RCC

When I buy a food I chose No gmo, No genetic modified.

I like to say to my catholic brother and sister to buy No SMO(Savior modified)

You say " I may be wrong". I think you are.

The Church is the body of Christ.
Christ of the head of the body.
The Church is not apart from Jesus.
So, the Catholic Church does not say there is no salvation apart from the Catholic Church.

Another quote from the Decree on Ecumenism says:
It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church. (para 3)

P.S. The name of the Church you refer to as RCC is Catholic Church (CC if you like). RCC is incorrect.

 

[Benadam]

But to question.

Is that posible for a man love Jesus but pray to Mary?

If so, is Holy Spirit in that man not say something?

There are some truths you are unable to accept. As far as 'dead' Saints. Why don't you accept that the Body of Christ suffered, died and rose again?That the Body of Christ is not dead?
That is what we are Baptized into. The death and resurrection of Christ.
That God is God of the living not the dead.

 

[EleventhHour]

All Catholics are born again.

They are not ... the sacraments so not confer God's grace.

 

[Benadam]

They are not ... the sacraments so not confer God's grace.

Hold on dear sister. Jesus introduces and defines what it is to be born of the Spirit. The Sacrament of Baptism confers Grace.
John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[EleventhHour]

Hold on dear sister. Jesus introduces and defines what it is to be born of the Spirit. The Sacrament of Baptism confers Grace.
John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

"Born of water" is physical birth.

Catholics for the most part do not understand the scripture.

 

[Benadam]

"Born of water" is physical birth.

Catholics for the most part do not understand the scripture.

Nicodemus thought that too. Jesus rebuked him for being a teacher and thinking He meant physical birth.

 

[EleventhHour]

Nicodemus thought that too. Jesus rebuked him for being a teacher and thinking He meant physical birth.

That would be incorrect ... there is an analogy being drawn.. one the physical birth and born from above spiritually.

Both are one time events... and no God's grace is not conferred by a human priest.