The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
No, we are two people, one who believes that God still does what HE says HE will do. and the OTHER WHO DEMANDs God performs for HIM to believe. a hat and cattle you can have the Bible and the word of God is what you must prove wrong not me :).
God does what he claims to do in scripture. But we do not see the book of Acts miracles continuing in history or in scripture. Why were all od Pail's friends sick and taking medicine in the Epistles?
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
you have not completely read the Book of Acts The house Cornelious debunked that understanding you have but pride has blinded you.
If anything, they spoke in tongues only at Cornelius' house.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Here's the thing Dave and I mean this sincerely. I have no desire to prove you wrong. Personally, I would rather be happy than to prove myself to be right at the expense of hurting someone else. That is a price that is too high for me to pay.
You would prove me wrong in love for Christ if you could.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,213
3,188
113
If you had one gift, you would use it in love for others. But you only pass by saying, yep the Lord still heals today.
I often use my time to pray for people and sometimes, by the grace of God, He answer my prayers and sometimes through His will my prayers are not answered. If God can use me to save one soul I would be grateful.

On this site everyone is saved with perfect knowledge of the Bible so I doubt that the one person will be on this site but I always find it fascinating to discuss doctrines with Bible believing Christians because out of one book the Devil divided Christendom into more than 60000 denominations and every one think they have the true gospel. I can only trust God that He is busy teaching me in Spirit and in truth.

God bless :)
 
May 23, 2020
1,558
313
83
All prophets are false since the gifts expired. You can see them drop off in the Epistles.
Where are they listed as dropping off?

Dave, real prophets don’t boast they are prophets. They are shown to be such to OTHERS because of how the Lord uses them.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
Where are they listed as dropping off?

Dave, real prophets don’t boast they are prophets. They are shown to be such to OTHERS because of how the Lord uses them.
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Many have failed to prove their points.

The first apostle to bring the gospel was Abel also the first recorded martyr.

It is impossible to separate the gift of prophecy from the gift of apostles. Its all one work of God's faith moving men working in them. He is not served with the corrupted hands of sinful mankind.

You have redefined the word apostle "sent one". It is not "authoritative one". or venerable ones. Same error of Catholisicim

Apostles that bring prophecy are sent with the authority. "God's word". As it is written is not of the apostles "sent one".

Why make the apostles into gods in the likeness of men? It the same thing the Pharisee with Sadaucesss performed .

Therefore making its original meaning without understanding.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
The first apostle to bring the gospel was Abel also the first recorded martyr.

It is impossible to separate the gift of prophecy from the gift of apostles. Its all one work of God's faith moving men working in them. He is not served with the corrupted hands of sinful mankind.

You have redefined the word apostle "sent one". It is not "authoritative one". or venerable ones. Same error of Catholisicim

Apostles that bring prophecy are sent with the authority. "God's word". As it is written is not of the apostles "sent one".

Why make the apostles into gods in the likeness of men? It the same thing the Pharisee with Sadaucesss performed .

Therefore making its original meaning without understanding.
Scripture provides the definition by their roles.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
God never removed Jesus' thorn in the flesh either. Jesus did the will of the father. Sufferings the thorn of the law. The Son of man Jesus was strengthened by the father who poured out His wrath on the sinful flesh of Jesus. Both working in perfect harmony .In order to do what the letter seen could not do provide spirit life not seen. The law of faith

yet Jesus knew no sin.

The thorn, the letter of the law will remain until the last day .
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
Scripture provides the definition by their roles.

Yes it does .

They are sent with the authority ofGod 's word. . No power coming from their dead flesh and blood (earthen bodies). "

Sent ones" is not exclusive to the new testament. That's a idea of the Pharisees with Sadducees who were required to make the word of God without understanding.

The apostles would never claim to be the source of Christian faith that rising above or makes their corrupted flesh equal to as it is written.

Paul knew quite well that he had received a gift. Why would he boast as if he did not? And in the end of the matter make the apostles as gods in the likeness of men?

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 King James Version (KJV)And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?
 
May 23, 2020
1,558
313
83
“Erastus abode at Corinth: but Trophimus have I left at Miletum sick.” (2 Timothy 4:20) (KJV 1900)

“Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach’s sake and thine often infirmities.” (1 Timothy 5:23) (KJV 1900)

“Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first. And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.” (Galatians 4:12–15) (KJV 1900)

(alternate translation of the above passage) “you know that previously I preached the gospel to you because of a physical illness. You did not despise or reject me though my physical condition was a trial for you. On the contrary, you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus Himself.” (Galatians 4:13–14)(HCSB)

“What happened to this sense of being blessed you had? For I testify to you that, if possible, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.” (Galatians 4:15)(HCSB)

“For he longed after you all, and was full of heaviness, because that ye had heard that he had been sick. For indeed he was sick nigh unto death: but God had mercy on him; and not on him only, but on me also, lest I should have sorrow upon sorrow.” (Philippians 2:26–27) (KJV 1900)

Paul left Trophimus in Miletus when he was sick (II Tim 4:20), and Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death (Phil 2:27). Timothy was encouraged to use wine for his stomach ailments (1 Tim 5:23). God never removed Paul's thorn in the flesh (II Cor 12:1-10).
You are mistaken if you think the gift of healings means doctors aren’t needed. It says at one point at least that Jesus couldn’t heal many. Is that because the gift of healing was dropping off?

Now Dave, you don’t believe there are gifts and so you’ve never operated in them nor seen anyone do so, obviously. As a result your idea of how they work is off. I’ve prayed for the lame and they got up and walked. But no one was there but me, my friend and her. No show. So I do know how the gifts operate.

That God heals doesn’t mean doctors are useless. The other gifts don’t cancel out human wisdom or knowledge or language translators or such.
 
Jan 17, 2020
4,792
736
113
You are mistaken if you think the gift of healings means doctors aren’t needed. It says at one point at least that Jesus couldn’t heal many. Is that because the gift of healing was dropping off?

Now Dave, you don’t believe there are gifts and so you’ve never operated in them nor seen anyone do so, obviously. As a result your idea of how they work is off. I’ve prayed for the lame and they got up and walked. But no one was there but me, my friend and her. No show. So I do know how the gifts operate.

That God heals doesn’t mean doctors are useless. The other gifts don’t cancel out human wisdom or knowledge or language translators or such.
I think you are missing the point. Paul could no longer miraculously heal in the Epistles. But used medicine instead.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,767
1,038
113
Where in scripture do you get this idea?
Those scriptures do not say that the flow of tongues were the evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Those filled with the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. (Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)



Acts 2:4
“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”

After the above incident, Peter specified that what bystanders were seeing and hearing WAS the Holy Ghost that Jesus had shed forth as promised:

"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:33


Acts 10:44-46
“ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues,”

How did they know the Gentiles had received the gift of the Holy Ghost? The answer is recorded in verse 46, “For they heard them speak with tongues.”

Acts 19:6
“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues…”


Acts 8:12-18
"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given


Notice Acts 8:12-The Samaritans believed Philip’s message. But they did not receive the Holy Ghost at that time. How did the people know that they had not received the Holy Ghost? See verse 14, Peter and John were sent for in order for the Samaritans to receive the Holy Ghost. Also, ask yourself. What did Simon SEE that convinced him that the Samaritans had received the Holy Ghost? (Verse 18)
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,767
1,038
113
Does not mean that this is what always happens. You assume it is. Also, notice that others understood in their own languages. This never happens with the pentecostals all start talking "in tongues."
Notice Peter does not even mention the gift of tongues. You instert that into the scripture that is not there.
The only way one can know if there understanding of a concept is true, such as what happens when a person is filled with the Holy Ghost, is to search scripture and see if what they believe is confirmed by at least 2-3 witnesses/records. (2 Cor 13:1, Deut 19:15, Matt 18:16)

Consider of all the recorded experiences pertaining to the infilling of the Holy Ghost every person began speaking in tongues. I believe that God chose to apply this principle in order that a person would never question whether they had actually been indwelt by His Spirit. God literally takes control of the tongue and communicates with those who have been reborn spiritually. Communication between God and man that was severed in the Garden is currently re-established via the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.

2 Tim 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
 
May 23, 2020
1,558
313
83
The only way one can know if there understanding of a concept is true, such as what happens when a person is filled with the Holy Ghost, is to search scripture and see if what they believe is confirmed by at least 2-3 witnesses/records. (2 Cor 13:1, Deut 19:15, Matt 18:16)
The enemy knows the scriptures quite well and quoted them to Jesus. If Jesus had done what you say above, he would have fallen for the trap. When the gift of tongues was given on Pentecost they spoke known languages they have never learned. No scripture would have told anyone there that this is the Holy Spirit. The above method would not have worked.
Consider of all the recorded experiences pertaining to the infilling of the Holy Ghost every person began speaking in tongues. I believe that God chose to apply this principle in order that a person would never question whether they had actually been indwelt by His Spirit. God literally takes control of the tongue and communicates with those who have been reborn spiritually. Communication between God and man that was severed in the Garden is currently re-established via the indwelling of the Holy Ghost.
Jesus never spoke in tongues and He was filled with the Holy Spirit. Same with JOhn the Baptist. There are only a few incidents of being filled recorded so your "every" person consists of a handful of time.
2 Tim 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Being thoroughly furnished includes discernment.

I will tell you the problem with the tongues being the measure. One, it is very very easy to fake and believers have always been completely fooled by the fakery that I saw. Two, it is even called the "least of the gifts" and yet the Pentecostals make it number 1. Three, insisting that this MUST happen does not bring love but pride and judgement. Jesus never spoke in tongues that we have recorded so He would not qualify as being filled with the Holy SPirit by your measure.
 
May 23, 2020
1,558
313
83
Those filled with the Holy Ghost spoke in tongues. (Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-17, 10:44-48, 19:1-6)



Acts 2:4
“And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.”

After the above incident, Peter specified that what bystanders were seeing and hearing WAS the Holy Ghost that Jesus had shed forth as promised:

"Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear." Acts 2:33


Acts 10:44-46
“ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues,”

How did they know the Gentiles had received the gift of the Holy Ghost? The answer is recorded in verse 46, “For they heard them speak with tongues.”

Acts 19:6
“And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues…”


Acts 8:12-18
"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.

14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given


Notice Acts 8:12-The Samaritans believed Philip’s message. But they did not receive the Holy Ghost at that time. How did the people know that they had not received the Holy Ghost? See verse 14, Peter and John were sent for in order for the Samaritans to receive the Holy Ghost. Also, ask yourself. What did Simon SEE that convinced him that the Samaritans had received the Holy Ghost? (Verse 18)
Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit at his baptism and NEVER spoke in tongues.
 
May 23, 2020
1,558
313
83
I think you are missing the point. Paul could no longer miraculously heal in the Epistles. But used medicine instead.
Does not say that. You are assuming healing from God OR medicine and there is no mixing of the two. There is no indication that God stopped loving people enough to heal them. It says he forgives our sins and heal our diseases. HOw come you think forgiveness of sins has not stopped along with healing of diseases?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,767
1,038
113
Paul was addressing spiritual gifts. The spiritual gift of tongues that is to be interpreted for the edification of the church body differs from tongues that come forth when one is infilled with the Holy Ghost.
Where in scripture do you get this idea?
The Holy Ghost itself is the promised GIFT (singular) from God, See Acts 2:33, 2:38, 10:45, Luke 11:13, Heb 6:4.

Tongues received at the infilling of the GIFT of the Holy Ghost edify the person being indwelt:
"For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Cor 14:2


Spiritual gifts (plural) edify the church body. They flow through mankind after they have received the actual GIFT (singular) of the Holy Ghost:

1 Cor 12:1
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant

1 Cor 12:4
Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Cor 12:8-11
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,767
1,038
113
Jesus was filled with the Holy Spirit at his baptism and NEVER spoke in tongues.
Don't lose sight of the fact that a concept is always established by 2-3 witnesses in the Word. When an event SEEMS to contradict an established concept it points to the fact that there is something different about the event. God's Word never contradicts itself.

Jesus was sinless therefore He was in direct communication with God. Speaking in tongues was not required.