Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?
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It is a fact that Jesus took on the form of a human, had a human mother and it is a medical fact that the unborn child will receive DNA from both the father and the mother. Jesus and was conceived when the Holy Spirit came upon Mary. Jesus did not inherit a sin nature because the Holy Spirit is without sin. Jesus is part of the trinity and has always existed but it is only when conceived in Mary's womb that He took on the form of a human. Jesus has the blood of His mother Mary. His embryo was not transplanted into Mary as scripture makes it clear that Mary would conceive and bore a son.
It's a fact that Jesus as Melchizedek, God appearing before Abram headed to Sodom, the Angel of the Lord in person, the backside of God to Moses, the General of God's Army to Joshua whom Joshua fleeced, the 4th man in the Fiery Furnace with Shadrach-Meshach-Abednego, the other numerous God appearances throughout the Old Testament in human form proved He already had a Human form and body and had no need of anything from Mary.
If you're Catholic, sorry pal, Mary is only special in the purpose she fulfilled. Other than that, it could have been any other 12 year old virgin female Jew.
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I don't think it's an "instead of". Christ was born into a sociological and political setting. You have Greek, Roman, Jewish, Egyptian, Persian influences all around. Even the word "Gospel" predates Christ. That has Roman origins: the Roman emperor wanted to spread the "good news" to all the Roman empire: let it be known that the war is over, and Octavian is the emperor. Enter now a period of the Pax Romana (Roman peace). Christianity borrowed from that Roman thought: Good news! Christ is King! Find peace in Christ.
Another issue when contemplating Jewish thought is...which Jewish? Fallen Jewish, or legit pre-Christ Jewish? It was "Jewish" thought that Jesus was a heretical rabbi, who needed to be killed. Thoughts can be both right and wrong. But just because it's secular or Gentile, doesn't make it automatically wrong. Nor does being Jewish make it automatically right.
Another issue when contemplating Jewish thought is...which Jewish? Fallen Jewish, or legit pre-Christ Jewish? It was "Jewish" thought that Jesus was a heretical rabbi, who needed to be killed. Thoughts can be both right and wrong. But just because it's secular or Gentile, doesn't make it automatically wrong. Nor does being Jewish make it automatically right.
I would not take it as a biblical fact that Jesus is Melchizedek as this not clearly stated but rather in Hebrew7:17 "For it is declared: "You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." Seems to me that if Jesus is in fact Melchizedek that verse would state "For it is declared: "You are a priest forever in the order of Jesus." Jesus would get the top billing.
I don't see the relevance to this point of discussion as to whether I am Catholic or not.
OK, I get where you are coming from, Mary was just simply an egg donor, if that. Apparently, the bible makes much ado about nothing in regards to the mother of Jesus. If the embryo was implanted in vitro into Mary then what is the significance if she were a virgin or not?
Where is the scripture verse or verses that state "Jesus is the angel of the Lord? Do you believe that Jesus is also Michael the archangel? A lot of SDA believe this, but again, the denomination you chose to affiliate with is not germane to this discussion.
I don't see the relevance to this point of discussion as to whether I am Catholic or not.
OK, I get where you are coming from, Mary was just simply an egg donor, if that. Apparently, the bible makes much ado about nothing in regards to the mother of Jesus. If the embryo was implanted in vitro into Mary then what is the significance if she were a virgin or not?
Where is the scripture verse or verses that state "Jesus is the angel of the Lord? Do you believe that Jesus is also Michael the archangel? A lot of SDA believe this, but again, the denomination you chose to affiliate with is not germane to this discussion.
It states in Genesis "Let's make man in our own image and likeness." God is composed of 3 separate entities, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit comprising one God. If the Father is invisible then it would be more appropriate for the verse to read, in regards to Jesus "Let's make man in your image and likeness".
I agree that not all Jewish thought is correct. (For another example of that, the Sadducees rejected the concept of resurrection. Jesus confronted them about their error.) My unstated premise is that the thought of Jesus is correct Jewish thought in all particulars.
Do you think the way Jesus shapes our understanding of God is consistent with the way Greek philosophy shapes our understanding of God?
Do you think the way Jesus shapes our understanding of God is consistent with the way Greek philosophy shapes our understanding of God?
The WORD, from Paul in the Book of Colossians, is the Creator of "All Things."
What's to say the WORD did not make this statement, since He was Creator and was predestined to appear as man to His own Creation?
God has 11 councils. How do we know this was not God speaking to His Council Members?
I find it odd for 4,000 years man walked literally with God and God never spoke directly about the Divinity of God. And then 3oo years after Christ ascends, the Divinity is created by man. Odd how that literally does not add up!
I don't think it would be well accepted if the designated mother of Christ was impure. That can lead to several discrepancies and immoral attributes.
Where is the scripture verse or verses that state "Jesus is the angel of the Lord? Do you believe that Jesus is also Michael the archangel? A lot of SDA believe this, but again, the denomination you chose to affiliate with is not germane to this discussion.[/QUOTE]
We know that Jesus (the WORD) is "I AM!"
We learn also in that same passage of Scripture that Jesus (the WORD) is also Elohim.
But that passage of scripture begins with the WORD being an Angel of the Lord:
Exodus 3:
2 An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from within the thorn bush, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed.
בוַיֵּרָ֠א מַלְאַ֨ךְ יְהֹוָ֥ה אֵלָ֛יו בְּלַבַּת־אֵ֖שׁ מִתּ֣וֹךְ הַסְּנֶ֑ה וַיַּ֗רְא וְהִנֵּ֤ה הַסְּנֶה֙ בֹּעֵ֣ר בָּאֵ֔שׁ וְהַסְּנֶ֖ה אֵינֶ֥נּוּ אֻכָּֽל:
4 The Lord saw that he had turned to see, and Elohim called to him from within the thorn bush, and He said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am!"
דוַיַּ֥רְא יְהֹוָ֖ה כִּ֣י סָ֣ר לִרְא֑וֹת וַיִּקְרָא֩ אֵלָ֨יו אֱלֹהִ֜ים מִתּ֣וֹךְ הַסְּנֶ֗ה וַיֹּ֛אמֶר משֶׁ֥ה משֶׁ֖ה וַיֹּ֥אמֶר הִנֵּֽנִי:
Jesus as Elohim:
Exodus 3:
6 And He said, "I am the Elohim of your father, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohimof Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob." And Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward Elohim.
ווַיֹּ֗אמֶר אָֽנֹכִי֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י אָבִ֔יךָ אֱלֹהֵ֧י אַבְרָהָ֛ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֖ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֑ב וַיַּסְתֵּ֤ר משֶׁה֙ פָּנָ֔יו כִּ֣י יָרֵ֔א מֵֽהַבִּ֖יט אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִֽים:
Verse 2 is an Angel of the Lord as the Burning Bush.
Verse 4 clarifies this Angel of the Lord is the Lord and He is Elohim.
Verse 6 has this Angel of the Lord, the Lord, Elohim clarifying that He is the Elohim of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob
And, verse 6 proves Elohim is SINGULAR, for Elohim (the WORD/Jesus) said...I am the ELOHIM!
Where is the scripture verse or verses that state "Jesus is the angel of the Lord? Do you believe that Jesus is also Michael the archangel? A lot of SDA believe this, but again, the denomination you chose to affiliate with is not germane to this discussion.[/QUOTE]
We know that Jesus (the WORD) is "I AM!"
We learn also in that same passage of Scripture that Jesus (the WORD) is also Elohim.
But that passage of scripture begins with the WORD being an Angel of the Lord:
Exodus 3:
2 An angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from within the thorn bush, and behold, the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed.
בוַיֵּרָ֠א מַלְאַ֨ךְ יְהֹוָ֥ה אֵלָ֛יו בְּלַבַּת־אֵ֖שׁ מִתּ֣וֹךְ הַסְּנֶ֑ה וַיַּ֗רְא וְהִנֵּ֤ה הַסְּנֶה֙ בֹּעֵ֣ר בָּאֵ֔שׁ וְהַסְּנֶ֖ה אֵינֶ֥נּוּ אֻכָּֽל:
4 The Lord saw that he had turned to see, and Elohim called to him from within the thorn bush, and He said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am!"
דוַיַּ֥רְא יְהֹוָ֖ה כִּ֣י סָ֣ר לִרְא֑וֹת וַיִּקְרָא֩ אֵלָ֨יו אֱלֹהִ֜ים מִתּ֣וֹךְ הַסְּנֶ֗ה וַיֹּ֛אמֶר משֶׁ֥ה משֶׁ֖ה וַיֹּ֥אמֶר הִנֵּֽנִי:
Jesus as Elohim:
Exodus 3:
6 And He said, "I am the Elohim of your father, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohimof Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob." And Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward Elohim.
ווַיֹּ֗אמֶר אָֽנֹכִי֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י אָבִ֔יךָ אֱלֹהֵ֧י אַבְרָהָ֛ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֖ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֑ב וַיַּסְתֵּ֤ר משֶׁה֙ פָּנָ֔יו כִּ֣י יָרֵ֔א מֵֽהַבִּ֖יט אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִֽים:
Verse 2 is an Angel of the Lord as the Burning Bush.
Verse 4 clarifies this Angel of the Lord is the Lord and He is Elohim.
Verse 6 has this Angel of the Lord, the Lord, Elohim clarifying that He is the Elohim of Abraham-Isaac-Jacob
And, verse 6 proves Elohim is SINGULAR, for Elohim (the WORD/Jesus) said...I am the ELOHIM!
Something else I am going to add here.
THERE IS NO GOD THE SON!
The WORD was already GOD!, Therefore, the WORD is ALWAYS the WORD, and not God the Son. He is God the WORD! He is SON in terms of how we are SONS to God, by flesh. But first and foremost, He is the WORD and forever will be the WORD!
Constantine the pagan made up this ungodly term God the Son!
Why would any true Believer in God DENOUNCE THE WORD for God the Son is only by heretical intentions!
Eshu/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ from the very word "GO" has always been the WORD!
John 1 and Timothy state the WORD became/Manifested into flesh. This mean He never stopped being the WORD! This means He is and will always and forever be the WORD!
Don't you people know how to read Scriture?
THERE IS NO GOD THE SON!
The WORD was already GOD!, Therefore, the WORD is ALWAYS the WORD, and not God the Son. He is God the WORD! He is SON in terms of how we are SONS to God, by flesh. But first and foremost, He is the WORD and forever will be the WORD!
Constantine the pagan made up this ungodly term God the Son!
Why would any true Believer in God DENOUNCE THE WORD for God the Son is only by heretical intentions!
Eshu/Yeshua/Jesus the Christ from the very word "GO" has always been the WORD!
John 1 and Timothy state the WORD became/Manifested into flesh. This mean He never stopped being the WORD! This means He is and will always and forever be the WORD!
Don't you people know how to read Scriture?