Man, The Cross , and The KJV

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
As a matter of fact, the King James Bible is superior to the Hebrew and to the Greek.
destroy.JPG

@ChosenbyHim

do you have an opinion about the fact, or could you explain why if God specifically chose 40 different, specific words to be given in His message to us, it is "superior" to substitute all 40 of those Hebrew words with one single English one?


this is an example of where the act of translation loses information. there is 40x more information in the original scripture, in this instance, than in the kjv. it is as though, by translating, all of the inherent nuance in the actual sayings was taken away from it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
I also can assure you that Enoch's translation led him into a superior state of being as well. Hence, in addition to the King James Holy Bible translation being perfect, we also can know that it is even superior to the original autographs.
just as a translation can take away from the words of the scroll, a translation can also add to the words of the scroll.



Capture.JPG
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
in re: the two posted tables above -- the point is not that the kjv takes away from the scripture and adds to the scripture. of course it does. every act of translation does this; word-for-word accuracy is impossible because the tower of Babel happened. other Bible versions do the same thing to various words to varying degrees.

the point is that i find claiming any translation is superior to the thing it is approximating, to be patently ridiculous.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
God gave a promise in Psalm 12. And it is a promise to preserve and keep His very words.

And so why do you believe that God would not preserve His pure word in an inerrant translation?
no where in Psalm 12 does the Most High say the scriptures can not be tampered with. several times throughout the bible people are forbidden from altering the words of scripture. if it was impossible to do this there would be no need for the command.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,386
5,725
113
Lucy, what in the world are you talking about, ma'am??

While I understand how my stand for the blessed King James Holy Bible, would be offensive to

But when you say how hurtful, and hateful and unChristian, what exactly do you mean?

How is it "hateful, hurtful and unchristian" to simply believe and trust that we have God's inerrant and perfect word with us today?
I apologise for my outburst. It was perhaps unfair of me to single you out for a roasting.

There have been so many of these KJVO threads and no amount of logic or reasoning seems to get through the shield.
The endless lies that are told about other English translations is hurtful.
And yes hateful because time and again they are debunked in black and white but KJVO believers WILFULLY won't accept truth and honesty.

Oh the howls of "CORRUPT MANUSCRIPTS"! And the endless rubbishing and judgement of the hearts of hundreds of translators.

NIV, CSB, NASB, OJB, YLT, Amplified.
These are the translations through which I drew closer to God for over 30 years.
The translations through which The Holy Spirit witnessed to me. If you don't believe my witness you are as good as calling me false.
I don't appreciate that.


Even now you are displaying a superior tone in your post.

"many modern Christians since they do not believe that a perfect Bible actually exists today."

You don't understand how that's unchristian?
You are claiming that I don't believe the Word of God is perfect.
Even though my modern English translations tell me that it is and I believe it.


The Holy Spirit has confirmed his identity and confirmed Jesus Christ as The Son of God to me through modern English translations.
Strict KJV Onlyism claims I don't believe what I do believe. That the Bible is NOT The Bible.
 
L

lenna

Guest
There is a copy of the Holy Scripture (King James Bible) in heaven. And that sealed copy, that 7 sealed book is in the right hand of God the Father (Rev. 5:1)
No, what is foolish, unreasonable and illogical is to think that a Christian has to go back to the "Original" Greek and the "Original" Hebrew in order to find out and really know what God has said in His word.
As a matter of fact, the King James Bible is superior to the Hebrew and to the Greek.

No
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63

Lenna, The King James Holy Bible is superior to the Original Hebrew and Greek. The Originals never were compiled into a complete volume together. However though, a preserved Copy and Translation of those very original Hebrew and Greek words, found in the blessed King James Holy Bible, are compiled into one whole volume of 66 books.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
Wrong. Discussed and debunked in the thread, "Psalm 12 under the microscope".
Dino, are you saying that the promise given in Psalm 12 only applies to the people of God and not the very words of God Almighty?
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
I agree; yours is far better than mine, because I don't use it! Clearly, you don't know what the term means, or you wouldn't make such a claim.

Have I said that I am full of doubt? No; I have said nothing of the sort. That's your projection, and it's utterly worthless.
If you are not doubtful regarding God's ability to preserve His pure words, Dino. Then please answer this question: Where can one find a perfect and infallible copy of the very pure words of God?

As for me, I fully trust in God's ability to keep His pure words.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
It doesn't matter to you that this psalm was written thousands of years before the King James Bible was created? Do you really think that the psalmist was writing about your favorite translation before there was anything like a translation in existence.
Jaybo, there were inspired translations In the very original autographs themselves:

Genesis 42:23 KJV And they knew not that Joseph understood them; for he spake unto them by an interpreter.

Here is the first example of an inspired translation. According to the Scriptures, Joseph spoke to his brethren in the Egyptian tongue, and yet the very words in the Egyptian tongue which were spoken by Joseph were Translated by Moses the man of God into the Hebrew language.

And there you have it, Jaybo. There we have an inspired translation long before the printing of the blessed King James Holy Bible in 1611.

Now what do you have to say about that????

Here is another inspired translation, this one is in the New Testament:

Acts 22:1-21 KJV
1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
4 And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
5 As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;
18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.
19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:
20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.
21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

Paul gave this very testimony of his, orally in Hebrew. And yet, Luke translated it into Greek. There is another inspired translation for you, long before the blessed 1611 King James Bible.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,491
13,797
113

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
Look, you think that the KJV is the only true Bible. That's just your opinion, nothing more.

IMHO you think that because it's the Bible used by your ancestors for about 400 years. There were Bibles before that (including the Septuagint, the Greek translation used during the time of Christ) and there will be new Bible translations as the art/science of translation continues to improve.

Get over it!
Jaybo, Whether I think it or not, the King James Holy Bible is the one true complete, perfect, inerrant and infallible, finished Bible.

And I also am aware that there were Bibles before 1611. But concerning your statement regarding the Septuagint being used during the time of Christ, do you have any proof of that?

Also, the "Art and Science" of Translation has not been improving. And besides, when you have God's finished, purified and perfect word, in the English language, there is no need for other English translations. For perfection and infallibility has no need of any improvement. In other words, no one can make any improvement to that which is already perfect, inerrant and absolutely purified.
 
L

lenna

Guest
Lenna, The King James Holy Bible is superior to the Original Hebrew and Greek. The Originals never were compiled into a complete volume together. However though, a preserved Copy and Translation of those very original Hebrew and Greek words, found in the blessed King James Holy Bible, are compiled into one whole volume of 66 books.

I cut my teeth on the King James and have read it in its entirety and actually recall verses in that idiom.

Your belief that the original languages are inferior to that translation is ignorant. You are also not very well acquainted with how the Bible actually became the book we have today.

The numerous errors in the KJ, which in my experience the KJ onlyists choose to overlook, does little for your position.

Frankly, much is lost in translation and that is why many choose to avail themselves of the original languages which is something that has not at all been readily available but in this day they are, through the internet and teachers that have learned those languages and desire truth.

I would hope you come to realize that you have been persuaded in error and continue that same error and would do far better to put your energy to better use.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
1,528
113
My "Circular" reasoning is far better than yours, Dino. Because at least my reasoning leads me to the confidence that I do have a perfect and finished Bible for today. Whereas on the contrary, your reasoning leaves you full of doubt. Since in your mind, you don't believe that there is a perfect, finished, infallible Bible anywhere on this planet.
Yes the "perfect law" circular sealed completing the circuit . Not the philosophies of faithless men. No power to work in to begin.

As you said He reserves and saves His ultimate, Final and perfected work for Last. Therefore not only teaching us but wonderfully brining to our minds the things he previously teaches us, comforting us.. Completing the circle as the Alpha and Omega the power in us with our new born again faith. His perfect law working in imperfect vessels with a living hope a of a new vessel
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
There is another inspired translation for you
Your argument proves that 'inspired translation' is not unique to kj version.

May i suggest you read the 1611 preface? And when you say you have, i suggest, do it again.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
Oy vey! There were many translations of the Bible -- a lot more than seven! -- prior to any English Bible be produced. Do you really interpret what a psalmist wrote many thousands of years before English was even a language as being applied to a single translation?

Sure, what David penned down in Psalm 12 is applicable to a translation of God’s blessed word.

As I already showed you also that there were even inspired translations in the Original autographs also.



Are you aware that in the (lengthy) preface to the Authorized Version the translators acknowledged that the previous translations were "the Word of God"?

Yes, I certainly am. Indeed, Tyndale's translation was a translation of God’s pure word, and so were the Great Bible, Coverdale Bible, Bishop’s Bible, Geneva Bible and so forth.


Why oh why are you so adamant about a single translation produced centuries after the Bible that Jesus used -- the Septuagint, itself a Greek translation of the ancient Hebrew and Aramaic -- is the true Word of God?

I am so adamant and unwavering concerning the blessed King James Holy Scripture because the Lord was very gracious to open my eyes to it. And because of the grace of my Lord and Saviour, I now know and understand that the King James Holy Bible is His finished Bible.


Why can't you just say that the KJV is the translation that you prefer? And that's all it is!

Because this issue is not about preference. The Bible Version Issue is about conviction. I read and study from the King James Holy Bible because of Conviction. And besides it is not about what we prefer, but rather it is about what pleases the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
i have some questions about your math.

  1. Wycliffe_______________1382-1395
  2. Tyndale_______________1525-1526
  3. Coverdale_____________1535
  4. Matthew's_____________1537
  5. Great Bible____________1539
  6. Geneva_______________1560
  7. Bishop's_______________1568
  8. Douay-Rheims_________1582-1610
  9. King James____________1611
  10. KJV revision 1__________1629
  11. KJV revision 2__________1769
  12. KJV revision 3__________1860
  13. KJV revision 4__________1867
  14. KJV revision 5__________1873
  15. KJV revision 6__________1967
The nature of changes in the KJV down through the years do not constitute any revision, but only editions.

Also, how come you included the Douay Rheims? You do know that is a Catholic bible, right?
 

ChosenbyHim

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2011
3,343
113
63
It's best to worship God not a centuries-old translation of ancient writings into a form of English that doesn't exist any more.
When you truly worship God, you will magnify, reverence, and honour His holy word.