the second adam.

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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#101
Feb 12, 2009
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#101
livingbygrace said:
Hi Phil

Have you found a sermon yet from a Baptist church that states if a person believes that Christ is the son of God but not God Himself he can have no eternal life.

After all you believe that that belief means someone is condemned. Surely your church must preach plainly something on which eternal life hinges. I am looking forward to listening to the sermon when you can give me the link
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not that agian thats 2 threads now about me trying to prove something which you stated.

can you prove your calim, of course you can't because it is a nonsesical claim.
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#102
Dec 19, 2009
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#102
phil36 said:
not that agian thats 2 threads now about me trying to prove something which you stated.

can you prove your calim, of course you can't because it is a nonsesical claim.
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#

So your Baptist church does not plainly preach from the pulpit a belief on which eternal life hinges, I think people should avoid that denomination then
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#103
Feb 12, 2009
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#103
livingbygrace said:
#

So your Baptist church does not plainly preach from the pulpit a belief on which eternal life hinges, I'd better avoid that denomination then
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lol now your becoming a little bit silly.

now, you made a bold and astounding claim for all to read.. now prove it LBG, surely you can..can;t you???? after all you spent thirty years listening to trinitarian teaching.. give us the proof LBG....
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#104
Dec 19, 2009
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#104
phil36 said:
lol now your becoming a little bit silly.

now, you made a bold and astounding claim for all to read.. now prove it LBG
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So it is silly to suggest a church denomination should clearly preach from the pulpit a belief on which eternal life hinges?
And it is silly for them to tell their congregation a belief that will condemn them,

Seems strange to me but there you go
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#105
Feb 12, 2009
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#105
livingbygrace said:
So it is silly to suggest a church denomination should clearly preach from the pulpit a belief on which eternal life hinges?
And it is silly for them to tell their congregation a belief that will condemn them,

Seems strange to me but there you go
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And it goes on, you made some wonderfully highly imaginative claim, and now you can't prove it, you just waffle on.

prove to us all what you have claimed we are genuinely waitng for good solid proof LBG.

or, did you just make it all up????????????????
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#106
Dec 19, 2009
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#106
phil36 said:
And it goes on, you made some wonderfully highly imaginative claim, and now you can't prove it, you just waffle on.

prove to us all what you have claimed we are genuinely waitng for good solid proof LBG.

or, did you just make it all up????????????????
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You continue trying to deflect deflect deflect it is obvious that is all you can do

For you belong to a denomination that does not preach plainly from the pulpit a belief that eternal life hinges on

So of course, all you can do is deflect, deflect, deflect
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#107
Feb 12, 2009
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#107
You made the claim now prove it LBG..I now believe you just amde it up from your own imagination????????????
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#108
Jun 24, 2010
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#108
wakeup said:
Red33 said:
you seem to be still of no understanding; looking at Jesus is AS looking at God, because he is the express image of God(mirror image) does not mean that jesus is the father.

''wakeup''.
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Just be practical and look at the passage and read the answer the Lord gave to Philip. Others translations confirm the wording as does the Codex Sinaiticus. Look at the following passage as well.

1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come , and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

an expanded translation...

We know with an absolute knowledge that the Son of God has come and is here, and He has given us a permenant understanding in order that we may be knowing, in an experiencial way, the One who is genuine. And we are in the genuine One, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the genuine God and life eternal.

quote - The Son of God has come into our world, and we have seen him, and know him by all the evidence that has already been asserted; he has revealed unto us the true God (as John i. 18), and he has opened our minds too to understand that revelation, given us an internal light in our understandings, whereby we may discern the glories of the true God; and we are assured that it is the true God that he hath discovered to us. He is infinitely superior in purity, power, and perfection, to all the gods of the Gentiles. He has all the excellences, beauties, and riches, of the living and true God.

It is the same God that, according to Moses's account, made the heavens and the earth, the same who took our fathers and patriarchs into peculiar covenant with himself, the same who brought our ancestors out of Egypt, who gave us the fiery law upon mount Sinai, who gave us his holy oracles, promised the call and conversion of the Gentiles. By his counsels and works, by his love and grace, by his terrors and judgments, we know that he, and he alone, in the fulness of his being, is the living and true God." It is a great happiness to know the true God, to know him in Christ; it is eternal life, John xvii. 3. It is the glory of the Christian revelation that it gives the best account of the true God, and administers the best eye-salve for our discerning the living and true God. 5.

They have a happy union with God and his Son: "And we are in him that is true, even (or and) in his Son Jesus Christ, v. 20. The Son leads us to the Father, and we are in both, in the love and favour of both, in covenant and federal alliance with both, in spiritual conjunction with both by the inhabitation and operation of their Spirit: and, that you may know how great a dignity and felicity this is, you must remember that this true one is the true God and eternal life" or rather (as it should seem a more natural construction), "This same Son of God is himself also the true God and eternal life" (John i. 1, and here, ch. i. 2), "so that in union with either, much more with both, we are united to the true God and eternal life." - unquote
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livingbygrace

Banned
#109
Dec 19, 2009
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#109
phil36 said:
You made the claim now prove it LBG..I now believe you just amde it up from your own imagination????????????
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Your running away and evading the question Phil

How can you belong to a church that will not plainly tell people from the pulpit the basis of the Christian faith and what is required to be believed to have etyernal life, and what belief is not acceptable to have for eternal life

How can any credible church not make plain such things from the pulpit

TYhey are letting their congregation down abysmaLLY
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#110
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#110
livingbygrace said:
Your running away and evading the question Phil

How can you belong to a church that will not plainly tell people from the pulpit the basis of the Christian faith and what is required to be believed to have etyernal life, and what belief is not acceptable to have for eternal life

How can any credible church not make plain such things from the pulpit

TYhey are letting their congregation down abysmaLLY
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Lol i never said that you said, now can you please prove that. Isnt it true that you cannot back up or prove any of your claims, its all in your imagination?
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#111
Dec 19, 2009
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#111
phil36 said:
Lol i never said that you said, now can you please prove that. Isnt it true that you cannot back up or prove any of your claims, its all in your imagination?
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You have proved your beliefs or your church denominations beliefs to be uncredible

They do not plainly preach from the pulpit what you believe is needed for a person to believe to have eternal life

Sorry Phil but this would be funny f it was not so serious

Your credibility is in ruins
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#112
Feb 12, 2009
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#112
lol ok you cannot prove your claims, I knew you couldnt so its ok LBG. have a good night. but if you find that you eventually somehow miracuously can please post.

Have a good night.
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#113
Dec 19, 2009
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#113
livingbygrace said:
You have proved your beliefs or your church denominations beliefs to be uncredible

They do not plainly preach from the pulpit what you believe is needed for a person to believe to have eternal life

Sorry Phil but this would be funny f it was not so serious

Your credibility is in ruins
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#
For the independant reader

Phil is asking me to prove that no Trinitarian churches I went to for thirty years preached from the pulpit that Christ is God Himself. Obviously he knows it is a ridiculous thing to ask anyone to prove but the poor man is desperate to deflect frpom a plain question

Why does his church not plainly preach from the pulpit what is required to believe to have eternal life
And what is not acceptable to believe to have eternal life according to his beliefs anyway

Surely such a church should not be gone to, they are letting their flock down abysmally

Such is the absurdity of some peoples positions
 
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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#114
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
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#114
livingbygrace said:
#
For the independant reader

Phil is asking me to prove that no Trinitarian churches I went to for thirty years preached from the pulpit that Christ is God Himself. Obviously he knows it is a ridiculous thing to ask anyone to prove but the poor man is desperate to deflect frpom a plain question

Why does his church not plainly preach from the pulpit what is required to believe to have eternal life
And what is not acceptable to believe to have eternal life according to his beliefs anyway

Surely such a church should not be gone to, they are letting their flock down abysmally
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LBG you have just told lies, aswell as making things up your are telling lies now.

you have totally made that up. not only do you not believe Jesus is not God, but you are willing in plain view of all to tell lies to try and prove a point.

Good night
 
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livingbygrace

Banned
#115
Dec 19, 2009
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#115
phil36 said:
LBG you have just told lies, aswell as making things up your are telling lies now.

you have totally made that up. not only do you not believe Jesus is not God, but you are willing in plain view of all to tell lies to try and prove a point.

Good night
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What is the lie Phil, please say, I would like to hear how I have lied

But it is true your church is not preaching from the pulpit what is not acceptable to be believed to have eternal life, if that is a lie prove it and supply a link to a church from your denomination and provide the sermon
Therefore they are not preaching the truth of which must and must not be believed to have eternal life

No need to argue, just provide the sermon and prove me wrong
 
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PneumaPsucheSoma

Banned
#116
Feb 23, 2011
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#116
journey41 said:
eternally-gratefull said:
journey41 said:
[/QUOTE]Before the Word was turned into flesh, it was the Word that was with God (the Word of God
How much more simple can I explain it? I am not mocking, but it is so clear to me.

Picture God there. Picture that he has his word in him. He tells us that his Word is truth, and that he does everything by that Word. So when God commands, his Word obeys and executes his will. God says let there be light, and the Word performs it. The Word does the work. That Word comes from inside of God, and it is the same as God commanding with his word to the womb to concieve a baby. In that baby is put the fullness of God. So this baby grows and has the Word of God in him. So he spoke the Word of God while he was on earth. Now the baby is the word of God in flesh (Jesus) The flesh was crucified, resurected & is now sitting on the right hand of God (next to him) This Word now has an identity, a name that we can relate to (Jesus Christ)

I hope this makes it a bit clearer for you.

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Hi, Journey. Please forgive my abruptness recently. I'm a bit weary of the various ping pong matches about God's nature and lashed out.

Would you please clarify your understanding of John 1:1? You've said "...Word was with God..." means God's OWN Word, not another "God-person" (I agree). But it clearly goes on to say "...and the Word WAS God." How is it you understand that the Word was not God? I'm not tracking. It certainly seems you're affirming John 1:1a and ignoring John 1:1b. Maybe you've addressed it somewhere and I've just missed it.

wakeup said:

Jesus is the son of God: Jesus only became God because the father says to the angels, and to us to worship him. but that still does not make Jesus the father: he is worshipped as the father is worshipped,but that still does not make him the father.the father is always in authority. always in authority of his word: his word can never be in charge of God. YOUR WORD CAN NEVER BE IN CHARGE OF YOU. we address Jesus as LORD,we never can call him father;for God is our one father.Jesus our one Lord. but we can call God LORD. when Jesus apears to you; you will call him LORD,you wont call him father.

''WAKEUP''.
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Would you clarify the above bolded/underlined? ^ "Jesus became God...". I understood you didn't believe Jesus was God. Was Jesus becoming God a creative act of God? Thanks in advance.
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#117
#117
journey41;427386 [quote said:
I hope this makes it a bit clearer for you.
[/QUOTE]Jesus was placed next to his Father after his resurection. In the beginning, the Word came out of the Father and was with him.

John 16:27 I came out from God.

The Word of God is a LIVING Word. It was WITH HIM from everlasting. It came out of him and was WITH HIM. Hard to understand because spiritual laws are not the same as ours. God is the authority and his Word is always with him. So imagine, God and his LIVING WORD BESIDE him performing his will. Well this Word can't control God. God controls his Word. He tells his word what to do. God is in charge. His Word is Spirit. God is spirit & his Word is Spirit.

Christ and God are unified in SPIRIT. The glory Christ had before was because he was with God all the time. He was only known as the Word then. Now he is known as the Word of God.


You see, back to the Word of God again.

It is not God that is coming back, but his Word.
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Its funny isn't it. The passage you quoted said "HIS NAME IS THE WORD OF GOD" How can his NAME be something if he is not a seperate identity. How cna he be sitting next to the Father now if he is not seperate. How could he be with the father before he came to earth, and have names, unless he was a seperate entity?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#119
#119
wakeup said:
Jesus is the son of God: Jesus only became God because the father says to the angels, and to us to worship him.
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Do what? I have never heard this before. Jesus became God? can you explain. Is he or is he not God?


but that still does not make Jesus the father: he is worshipped as the father is worshipped,but that still does not make him the father.the father is always in authority. always in authority of his word: his word can never be in charge of God. YOUR WORD CAN NEVER BE IN CHARGE OF YOU. we address Jesus as LORD,we never can call him father;for God is our one father.Jesus our one Lord. but we can call God LORD. when Jesus apears to you; you will call him LORD,you wont call him father.
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I have never claimed he was the Father. nor do I know anyone else but maybe pneuma who thinks he is even part of the father, and not his own being. so I am not sure what your getting at here.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#120
#120
phil36 said:
LBG you have just told lies, aswell as making things up your are telling lies now.

you have totally made that up. not only do you not believe Jesus is not God, but you are willing in plain view of all to tell lies to try and prove a point.

Good night
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Phil, I am going to have to side with LBG here. You said he could not be saved because he does not believe Jesus is God, Even though he does belive Jesus to be the son of God. Can you show where in scripture LBG is not saved or form your church as he asked? I disagree with him as who Jesus is. But I am not claiming he is not saved. you have made a severe accusation against him, You should back it up.
 
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