"Don't Raise a Dinah:" Thoughts?
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Hi Mary. In essence this pastor is correct, as we want to protect and even shelter our children from the evilness of this wicked world. But to say with definiteness that his daughters would NEVER commit fornication is simply naive and ignorant. We can't force people to serve our Creator, even if these people are our children. Here are some additional thoughts:
1 Corinthians 10:12: "Therefore let the one who thinks he stands firm [immune to temptation, being overconfident and self-righteous], take care that he does not fall [into sin and condemnation]." Any child and especially a teen can fall into sexual temptation, just as adults do. There is no way to so tightly control a teenager as the pastor suggests without breaking the law, as to do so would be in violation of an 18 year-old's right to direct her own life. It would be folly to believe otherwise.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15: "According to the undeserved kindness of God that was given to me, I laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, but someone else is building on it. But let each one keep watching how he is building on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will be shown for what it is, for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire, and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one has built. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; 15 if anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved; yet, if so, it will be as through fire."
In writing to the Corinthians, the apostle Paul used metaphoric language to illustrate the need for durable qualities that can help us face trials. Such fire-resistant materials as gold, silver, and precious stones correspond to godly qualities. On the other hand, fleshly traits are likened to combustible materials. Here again, the Bible explains that all of us will inevitably face some form of fiery test and so to say that the pastor's daughters could never fall into the trap of sexual immorality is contrary to what is predicted in the Bible.
There are so many more scriptures that counter-refute what the Pastor is saying, but the Bible is replete with examples of children who deviated from the Way, including at least one sibling of Jesus, so no one in immune.
My two sons were raised in a Christian household and I did my best to raise them to avoid the temptations of the flesh (they NEVER went to public school and instead were home-schooled; they worked part-time since childhood in our family business and were around only servants of God and they were not allowed to have any worldly friends and they STILL found a way to engage in scripturally inappropriate behavior and sadly to this day, they are non-believers)
I wish it were as simple as the Pastor proclaims to keep our children chaste, but choosing a Christian life-style MUST be something that each of us truly wants to do as the inclination toward sin is so strong. I wish all Christian parents the best as you raise your children in a Christian way while living in an ungodly world!
1 Corinthians 10:12: "Therefore let the one who thinks he stands firm [immune to temptation, being overconfident and self-righteous], take care that he does not fall [into sin and condemnation]." Any child and especially a teen can fall into sexual temptation, just as adults do. There is no way to so tightly control a teenager as the pastor suggests without breaking the law, as to do so would be in violation of an 18 year-old's right to direct her own life. It would be folly to believe otherwise.
1 Corinthians 3:10-15: "According to the undeserved kindness of God that was given to me, I laid a foundation as a skilled master builder, but someone else is building on it. But let each one keep watching how he is building on it. 11 For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, 13 each one’s work will be shown for what it is, for the day will show it up, because it will be revealed by means of fire, and the fire itself will prove what sort of work each one has built. 14 If anyone’s work that he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward; 15 if anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved; yet, if so, it will be as through fire."
In writing to the Corinthians, the apostle Paul used metaphoric language to illustrate the need for durable qualities that can help us face trials. Such fire-resistant materials as gold, silver, and precious stones correspond to godly qualities. On the other hand, fleshly traits are likened to combustible materials. Here again, the Bible explains that all of us will inevitably face some form of fiery test and so to say that the pastor's daughters could never fall into the trap of sexual immorality is contrary to what is predicted in the Bible.
There are so many more scriptures that counter-refute what the Pastor is saying, but the Bible is replete with examples of children who deviated from the Way, including at least one sibling of Jesus, so no one in immune.
My two sons were raised in a Christian household and I did my best to raise them to avoid the temptations of the flesh (they NEVER went to public school and instead were home-schooled; they worked part-time since childhood in our family business and were around only servants of God and they were not allowed to have any worldly friends and they STILL found a way to engage in scripturally inappropriate behavior and sadly to this day, they are non-believers)
I wish it were as simple as the Pastor proclaims to keep our children chaste, but choosing a Christian life-style MUST be something that each of us truly wants to do as the inclination toward sin is so strong. I wish all Christian parents the best as you raise your children in a Christian way while living in an ungodly world!
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No, what I am saying is that women who expose themselves are INVITING rapists. So they both should be held accountable.
If you happen to live in a neighborhood where break-ins are common and you leave your doors and windows unlocked, you are as much responsible as the burglars who took advantage of your stupidity. Provocative clothing in this day and age is also stupidity.
If you happen to live in a neighborhood where break-ins are common and you leave your doors and windows unlocked, you are as much responsible as the burglars who took advantage of your stupidity. Provocative clothing in this day and age is also stupidity.
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That's why you talk a lot with your child. I was told not to ever be autostopping (sorry don't know the English word for this but I mean stopping random cars on the road to give me a ride) and mother would call me when there were movies on TV with characters who did, so I can watch, to picture for myself what might happen. The problem is that you're always going to have evil people, predators, who WILL justify their actions with how the victim was dressed. What you or I think is irrelevant. We are not the perpetrator. I find it upsetting when they ask the victim how was she dressed, and I was hoping that would go away, but they now unfortunately have to ask this invasive question even more often, because of false rape accusations. It's really messed up to put someone in prison if they indeed got consent and both were let's say buzzed after one or two drinks, none savagely drunk, and still clearly thinking, but she regretted her decision the morning after and then suddenly oh, he raped me. A lot of worldly guys have wised up and will not even consider being with a woman that isn't completely sober, but I think women are shifting all the responsibility on the guys here. There was some legislation talk by the left about giving a formal, written and signed consent as a prerequisite for intercourse, the worldly people were pissed off how it would kill all the allure, I think it would be really funny and I was already getting my popcorn out, but unfortunately that's not going to happen because if you were not in a sober state, any lawyer can contest it was invalid, you have to be of clear mind just like when writing your will. They might end up building little 24/7 consent stands everywhere with a government official, and hit it up after going to the club... 
A girl in skimpy clothing, especially if drunk, is more vulnerable to attack, 1. less capability to physically defend themselves because of intoxication and 2. easier to assault them because they wear less clothing. Warning someone that they are putting themselves into a more vulnerable position, doesn't mean a justification if attacked. You wouldn't advise anyone to walk alone at night in dark streets either - even though they are perfectly free to do so.
But there is an area with a lot space for improvement, education of general public on how rape works, psychology of abuse, and how fight, flight, or freeze reactions work. This is determined by how the hormones kick in. Some people will try to fight the attacker, some will try to run away, and some will freeze and be completely paralyzed. This doesn't mean the victim wanted it. You see the same human behavior in animals, when they respond to predators. This has nothing to do with will and choice, in that moment your body takes over. I've always thought, if someone tried to assault me, I'd slap them with my backpack until they passed out... Until this happened to me a few years ago. In the middle of a public transport. So this dude was leaning close to me, I move away. He again leans close, I step away in a way that he couldn't approach me again, placing my bag as a barrier. It was all happening fast and I just began realizing what's going on. He started looking straight at me and telling disturbing, perverse things to my face. Under his voice, so other passengers didn't hear, only I did, and my own reaction appalled me. I went blank and completely shut down. I just had an overpowering awareness that I was talking with someone physically stronger than me, and this awareness paralyzed me. I stood and was unable to speak, move, or react, just be a passive recipient of abuse. He went out quickly at the next stop, saying a few more messed up words before he did. I was beyond disturbed. I've always thought I'd at least slap someone in the face in such a situation, what turned me into a passive victim, what's wrong with me? Why didn't I say something or fight back? Because I was completely overwhelmed with awareness I was the weaker one in the exchange, and that made me freeze. I am hoping that there is no next time, but if there is, I hope I will fight back.
A girl in skimpy clothing, especially if drunk, is more vulnerable to attack, 1. less capability to physically defend themselves because of intoxication and 2. easier to assault them because they wear less clothing. Warning someone that they are putting themselves into a more vulnerable position, doesn't mean a justification if attacked. You wouldn't advise anyone to walk alone at night in dark streets either - even though they are perfectly free to do so.
But there is an area with a lot space for improvement, education of general public on how rape works, psychology of abuse, and how fight, flight, or freeze reactions work. This is determined by how the hormones kick in. Some people will try to fight the attacker, some will try to run away, and some will freeze and be completely paralyzed. This doesn't mean the victim wanted it. You see the same human behavior in animals, when they respond to predators. This has nothing to do with will and choice, in that moment your body takes over. I've always thought, if someone tried to assault me, I'd slap them with my backpack until they passed out... Until this happened to me a few years ago. In the middle of a public transport. So this dude was leaning close to me, I move away. He again leans close, I step away in a way that he couldn't approach me again, placing my bag as a barrier. It was all happening fast and I just began realizing what's going on. He started looking straight at me and telling disturbing, perverse things to my face. Under his voice, so other passengers didn't hear, only I did, and my own reaction appalled me. I went blank and completely shut down. I just had an overpowering awareness that I was talking with someone physically stronger than me, and this awareness paralyzed me. I stood and was unable to speak, move, or react, just be a passive recipient of abuse. He went out quickly at the next stop, saying a few more messed up words before he did. I was beyond disturbed. I've always thought I'd at least slap someone in the face in such a situation, what turned me into a passive victim, what's wrong with me? Why didn't I say something or fight back? Because I was completely overwhelmed with awareness I was the weaker one in the exchange, and that made me freeze. I am hoping that there is no next time, but if there is, I hope I will fight back.
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Because God forbid we have a disagreement, all Christians must think the same as you. Have you wondered why you're getting disagreements? I withheld myself, I think I didn't give you any X, but I also disagree with some things you said.
It's because of the language you chose. Language engineers thoughts, make no mistake about it, that's why propaganda exists, the way you name something suggests ideas behind it and directs thoughts in a certain direction. If you said, "putting yourself at risk" you wouldn't be getting disagreements because that's a fact. "Asking for it", "inviting rape" and similar language justifies rape no matter what you personally claim to believe... You might say "well isn't it the same thing?" but it's actually two very different statements because they have different connotations, one puts things as they are, another blames the victim. So it is a slap in the face to victims, who btw often get raped in normal clothing. Rapes don't happen only to skimpy clad drunk women in clubs like people think, in fact maniacs will often ambush a woman coming back from work or school, in completely normal clothing. Is skimpy clothes a cry for attention? Foolish? Risky? I can hardly think of any Christian who would disagree. But to say "inviting rape" or "asking for it" is casting stones and sounds almost gloating. As if you've never made a mistake, or a dumb choice.
It's because of the language you chose. Language engineers thoughts, make no mistake about it, that's why propaganda exists, the way you name something suggests ideas behind it and directs thoughts in a certain direction. If you said, "putting yourself at risk" you wouldn't be getting disagreements because that's a fact. "Asking for it", "inviting rape" and similar language justifies rape no matter what you personally claim to believe... You might say "well isn't it the same thing?" but it's actually two very different statements because they have different connotations, one puts things as they are, another blames the victim. So it is a slap in the face to victims, who btw often get raped in normal clothing. Rapes don't happen only to skimpy clad drunk women in clubs like people think, in fact maniacs will often ambush a woman coming back from work or school, in completely normal clothing. Is skimpy clothes a cry for attention? Foolish? Risky? I can hardly think of any Christian who would disagree. But to say "inviting rape" or "asking for it" is casting stones and sounds almost gloating. As if you've never made a mistake, or a dumb choice.
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Intent and motivation matter. What if a woman is wearing a bikini in order to get a tan? Is her physique exposure an invitation? Just because a door is unlocked doesn’t mean you are inviting someone in. They are still trespassing.
It can be argued that it is unwise to leave your doors unlocked, but an unlocked door is not a justification for theft. “But...but Judge, they were asking for it! They left their door open!” A criminal will always find an excuse.
A rapist can not justify their act based upon the clothing of their victim. What are you going to say, “Can you blame him?” 😅 Neither should the victim be found at fault for another man’s wickedness. Like, okay, someone is checking out a woman who is wearing revealing clothing. How can she say, “My eyes are up here” when she is basically bursting from the seams? Whether she likes it or not, her physicality is sexualized and her exposure of it may draw attention. This does not justify the actions of onlookers, lacking self control, but neither should she be appalled or surprised at gazing eyes.
Only this is far more subtle than associating a raping to something someone is wearing. I know a person who has been raped, and they always dress modestly. I don’t think we can make a strong correlation between the two, because just like the unlocked window, it is a matter of opportunity the rapist is looking for. It doesn’t matter the size of the window, the shape, or color, it’s that it is opened.
So we can say that women do open themselves up in particular environments, exposing themselves to dangers that they would otherwise not be exposed to if they chose to avoid a... certain lifestyle. A lifestyle that effects their judgement of situations and reading people’s intentions (i.e., being drunk and high, especially a night life). There is a level of practical wisdom here, that does not justify the rapist nor blame the victim in such a manner that would absolve them of personal responsibility. Clothing being the least of it, and company more so. Putting oneself in a vulnerable situation is what should be emphasized.
No one wants to talk about personal responsibility of course when it comes to a great injustice. It is wicked, and disgusting. Vile. Why would you focus on the victim and not the perpetrator? We all understand that a rapist is not justified, no matter the context of the situation. Though it is a hard discussion, people should look into what may have led one to be placed in that situation and what precautions can be taken.
It can be argued that it is unwise to leave your doors unlocked, but an unlocked door is not a justification for theft. “But...but Judge, they were asking for it! They left their door open!” A criminal will always find an excuse.
A rapist can not justify their act based upon the clothing of their victim. What are you going to say, “Can you blame him?” 😅 Neither should the victim be found at fault for another man’s wickedness. Like, okay, someone is checking out a woman who is wearing revealing clothing. How can she say, “My eyes are up here” when she is basically bursting from the seams? Whether she likes it or not, her physicality is sexualized and her exposure of it may draw attention. This does not justify the actions of onlookers, lacking self control, but neither should she be appalled or surprised at gazing eyes.
Only this is far more subtle than associating a raping to something someone is wearing. I know a person who has been raped, and they always dress modestly. I don’t think we can make a strong correlation between the two, because just like the unlocked window, it is a matter of opportunity the rapist is looking for. It doesn’t matter the size of the window, the shape, or color, it’s that it is opened.
So we can say that women do open themselves up in particular environments, exposing themselves to dangers that they would otherwise not be exposed to if they chose to avoid a... certain lifestyle. A lifestyle that effects their judgement of situations and reading people’s intentions (i.e., being drunk and high, especially a night life). There is a level of practical wisdom here, that does not justify the rapist nor blame the victim in such a manner that would absolve them of personal responsibility. Clothing being the least of it, and company more so. Putting oneself in a vulnerable situation is what should be emphasized.
No one wants to talk about personal responsibility of course when it comes to a great injustice. It is wicked, and disgusting. Vile. Why would you focus on the victim and not the perpetrator? We all understand that a rapist is not justified, no matter the context of the situation. Though it is a hard discussion, people should look into what may have led one to be placed in that situation and what precautions can be taken.
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Or what if in a nudist colony?
I would suggest back to Genesis where the principle 2 = 1 was violated. And mankind lost the glow of being in the presence of God's glory. His Glory departed and left their dead flesh open to the public. Dying flesh and blood will not enter the new order. In the new order his glory will again be the source of concealment.
Nehemiah, do you know how toxic that statement is? I agree women should not dress like prey. I will give you that. Modesty is a virtue that I too value.
HOWEVER...
Many women have been on the receiving end of rape, some were dressed skimpy, others fully clothed. In all situations, holding the female responsible is like saying that if someone makes you angry, you have a right to hurt them. They made you do it.
I call that shameful to shame the victim for the actions of another. I love my Lord, and for years blamed myself for what happened to me (most who have experienced, if not all, share that deep shame, regardless how they were dressed or any of the circumstances) and the last people I would think would consider a survivor of rape guilty would be a brother or sister in Christ.
HOWEVER...
Many women have been on the receiving end of rape, some were dressed skimpy, others fully clothed. In all situations, holding the female responsible is like saying that if someone makes you angry, you have a right to hurt them. They made you do it.
I call that shameful to shame the victim for the actions of another. I love my Lord, and for years blamed myself for what happened to me (most who have experienced, if not all, share that deep shame, regardless how they were dressed or any of the circumstances) and the last people I would think would consider a survivor of rape guilty would be a brother or sister in Christ.
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