Not By Works
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Also @Rosemaryx Thank you 
I had to leave to tend to
brunch and then my internet went out for about 5 minutes
I had to leave to tend to brunch and then my internet went out for about 5 minutes
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Also @Rosemaryx Thank you I had to leave to tend to
brunch and then my internet went out for about 5 minutes
I had to leave to tend to brunch and then my internet went out for about 5 minutes
...xox...
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I have no idea what it is, though it has been suggested, since I have had similar problems with my phone dropping calls in the middle of conversations, prompting multiple call-backs to continue, that the cell towers are overworked due to so many staying home Thankfully this was short-lived, unlike (was it last weekend?) the site going down for eight hours I wonder what that was about?
Thankfully this was short-lived, unlike (was it last weekend?) the site going down for eight hours I wonder what that was about? -
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14. They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children!
15. Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
16. but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
17. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
18. For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
19. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.
20. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. (NRSV)
Peter (for those who chose to believe him) tells us in v. 15 that these people forsook the right way—faith in Christ and obedience to Him—and went away from Him, loving gain and wrongdoing. Peter tells us in v. 20 that these people had “escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,” but became entangled again in “the defilements of the world.” Peter also tells us in v. 20 that the state of these people had become even worse than it had been before they had been saved. Peter tells us in v. 21 that these people would have been better off if they had never known the way of righteousness (justification through faith). Peter tells us in v. 22 that it happened to these people according to the true proverb, “The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.” Gene L. Green, in his commentary on Jude and 2 Peter in the “Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament” series, writes,
Gene L. Green (PhD, Kings College, Aberdeen University) is dean of Trinity International University’s Florida campus. Previously, he served as emeritus professor of New Testament at Wheaton College and Graduate School. His special research interest is the intersection of the Christian faith and cultures, both ancient and contemporary. Gene has pastored and taught in churches in the United States and Latin America since 1972. –Zondervan
15. Forsaking the right way they have gone astray; they have followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved gain from wrongdoing,
16. but was rebuked for his own transgression; a dumb ass spoke with human voice and restrained the prophet's madness.
17. These are waterless springs and mists driven by a storm; for them the nether gloom of darkness has been reserved.
18. For, uttering loud boasts of folly, they entice with licentious passions of the flesh men who have barely escaped from those who live in error.
19. They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption; for whatever overcomes a man, to that he is enslaved.
20. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. (NRSV)
Peter (for those who chose to believe him) tells us in v. 15 that these people forsook the right way—faith in Christ and obedience to Him—and went away from Him, loving gain and wrongdoing. Peter tells us in v. 20 that these people had “escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,” but became entangled again in “the defilements of the world.” Peter also tells us in v. 20 that the state of these people had become even worse than it had been before they had been saved. Peter tells us in v. 21 that these people would have been better off if they had never known the way of righteousness (justification through faith). Peter tells us in v. 22 that it happened to these people according to the true proverb, “The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire.” Gene L. Green, in his commentary on Jude and 2 Peter in the “Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament” series, writes,
They, once having known the Lord and his holy commandment, have denied the Lord (2:21), have been entangled in the defilements of the world again (2:20), and have turned away after having known the way of righteousness (2:21), forgetting that they had been purified from past sins (1:9). This is genuine apostasy. Peter holds out no hope for such “beasts.”
Gene L. Green (PhD, Kings College, Aberdeen University) is dean of Trinity International University’s Florida campus. Previously, he served as emeritus professor of New Testament at Wheaton College and Graduate School. His special research interest is the intersection of the Christian faith and cultures, both ancient and contemporary. Gene has pastored and taught in churches in the United States and Latin America since 1972. –Zondervan
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Let me ask you something. Was it the Holy Spirit’s work that made you believe or your own investigation? We know the truth, of scripture, is that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement. Think of it like you’re the jury and the Holy Spirit is the lawyer. He convinced you of the truth. So, now believing because of the Holy Spirit’s conviction you are a believer in Christ.
Why do you think you must maintain belief when it is the Lord who convicted you of it to begin with? Doesn’t scripture say of the Holy Spirit, He will lead you into ALL truth? Shouldn’t our boast rather be in the Lord who keeps us in the faith, because the Lord will finish the good work He has started?
I really don’t think we have a boast beyond the Lord Himself.
Why do you think you must maintain belief when it is the Lord who convicted you of it to begin with? Doesn’t scripture say of the Holy Spirit, He will lead you into ALL truth? Shouldn’t our boast rather be in the Lord who keeps us in the faith, because the Lord will finish the good work He has started?
I really don’t think we have a boast beyond the Lord Himself.
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You are ridiculous in your definition of what HE meant. I have never heard ANY ONE that cannot see the difference between a Prodigal and the REAL falling away. The Prodigal WILL ALWAYS COME BACK, and FALL AWAY means a PERMANENT DEPARTING.
The PRODIGAL, the FATHER WAS AT THE DOOR WAITING FOR HIS RETURN.
AND Those WHO PERMANENTLY FELL AWAY HE DOES NOT WAIT AT THE DOOR.
DON'T YOU BELIEVE IN THE ALL KNOWING POWER OF GOD ? ? ?
HE ABSOLUTELY KNEW WHO WOULD PERMANANTLY ABANDON HIM, BEFORE TIME BEGAN.
AND HE ABSOLUTELY KNEW WHO WOULD ONLY TEMPORARY SLIP INTO PRODIGALISM, AND WILL COME BACK.
Don't you even BELIEVE THIS VERSE ? ? ? Don't you even believe GOD KNOW EVERY DECISION YOU WILL MAKE IN YOUR LIFE WHEN HE WROTE OUR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH.
2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”
Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him [Long before you can do your first work, so Obedience is Part of your Agape Love, that you do after you are SAVED.], you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.
John 10:22. At that time the Feast of the Dedication took place at Jerusalem;
23. it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
24. The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25. Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26. “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30. “I and the Father are one.” (NASB, 1995)
Please notice especially vv. 26-28,
26. “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
These verses are a translation of the following:
26. ἀλλ’ ὑμεῖς οὐ πιστεύετε, ὅτι οὐκ ἐστὲ ἐκ τῶν προβάτων τῶν ἐμῶν.
27. τὰ πρόβατα τὰ ἐμὰ τῆς φωνῆς μου ἀκούουσιν, κἀγὼ γινώσκω αὐτὰ καὶ ἀκολουθοῦσίν μοι,
28. κἀγὼ δίδωμι αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ οὐχ ἁρπάσει τις αὐτὰ ἐκ τῆς χειρός μου.
Anyone with a basic knowledge of Greek can see that all of the Greek verbs translated here as “believe,” “ hear,” “know,” “follow,” and” give” are in the present tense—and that unlike in English where verb tenses primarily express the time of the action, verb tenses in Greek primarily express the continuity of the action. Jesus is knowing those sheep who are hearing His voice and who are following Him—and to those sheep Jesus is giving eternal life. Please note that the Bible does NOT say that Jesus gave them eternal life; the Bible says that Jesus is giving eternal life to them. If they should quit hearing and following Jesus, the giving to them of eternal life will cease and they shall perish.
Compare:
Isa. 43:10. “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
11. “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
12. “It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And I am God.
13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”
Notice especially v. 13, “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”
But continue reading the rest of the chapter and what do you find,
22. “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel.”
And finally,
28. “So I will pollute the princes of the sanctuary, And I will consign Jacob to the ban and Israel to revilement.”
The New Revised Standard Version translates v. 28,
28. Therefore I profaned the princes of the sanctuary,
I delivered Jacob to utter destruction,
and Israel to reviling.
Being delivered to utter destruction does not sound like eternal security to me!
23. it was winter, and Jesus was walking in the temple in the portico of Solomon.
24. The Jews then gathered around Him, and were saying to Him, “How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Christ, tell us plainly.”
25. Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26. “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29. “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30. “I and the Father are one.” (NASB, 1995)
Please notice especially vv. 26-28,
26. “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27. “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28. and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
These verses are a translation of the following:
26. ἀλλ’ ὑμεῖς οὐ πιστεύετε, ὅτι οὐκ ἐστὲ ἐκ τῶν προβάτων τῶν ἐμῶν.
27. τὰ πρόβατα τὰ ἐμὰ τῆς φωνῆς μου ἀκούουσιν, κἀγὼ γινώσκω αὐτὰ καὶ ἀκολουθοῦσίν μοι,
28. κἀγὼ δίδωμι αὐτοῖς ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ οὐ μὴ ἀπόλωνται εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ οὐχ ἁρπάσει τις αὐτὰ ἐκ τῆς χειρός μου.
Anyone with a basic knowledge of Greek can see that all of the Greek verbs translated here as “believe,” “ hear,” “know,” “follow,” and” give” are in the present tense—and that unlike in English where verb tenses primarily express the time of the action, verb tenses in Greek primarily express the continuity of the action. Jesus is knowing those sheep who are hearing His voice and who are following Him—and to those sheep Jesus is giving eternal life. Please note that the Bible does NOT say that Jesus gave them eternal life; the Bible says that Jesus is giving eternal life to them. If they should quit hearing and following Jesus, the giving to them of eternal life will cease and they shall perish.
Compare:
Isa. 43:10. “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
11. “I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
12. “It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed, And there was no strange god among you; So you are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “And I am God.
13. “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”
Notice especially v. 13, “Even from eternity I am He, And there is none who can deliver out of My hand; I act and who can reverse it?”
But continue reading the rest of the chapter and what do you find,
22. “Yet you have not called on Me, O Jacob; But you have become weary of Me, O Israel.”
And finally,
28. “So I will pollute the princes of the sanctuary, And I will consign Jacob to the ban and Israel to revilement.”
The New Revised Standard Version translates v. 28,
28. Therefore I profaned the princes of the sanctuary,
I delivered Jacob to utter destruction,
and Israel to reviling.
Being delivered to utter destruction does not sound like eternal security to me!
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CONTINUED:
I clicked send that post before I concluded by accident. SORRY.
Revelation 13:8 (HCSB)
8 All those who live on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name was not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.
THAT means, EVERYONE who IS SAVED, already have their NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, before the world was made.
That means HE KNOWS EVERY DECISION WE WOULD MAKE BEFORE World was FORMED.
How small you must think GOD IS, that YOUR decisions can fool HIM ? ? ?
HE IS INFINITELY MORE ALL KNOWING, than you can imagine. How small do you think the ALL KNOWING GOD OF THE UNIVERSE IS ? ? ?
You THINK HE does not even know every single thought that you will have in your lifetime ? ? ?
WOW, YOU DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT GOD!
Ephesians 4:30 (NKJV)
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God,
by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
{There is a major OSAS VERSE!}
John 8:31. So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
32. and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
Col. 1:23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
The Gospel According to John explicitly teaches that our salvation is conditional upon our abiding in Christ, and the Greek word translated ‘abide’ in English is the Greek word μένω meaning to ‘abide,’ ‘remain,’ and ‘stay’ and is used in twelve of the New Testament books with these meanings. But before we go any further with this, we need to address the construction of conditional sentences in New Testament Greek.
There are the four kinds of conditional sentences found in the Greek New Testament:
1. The supposition of a fact. Example: For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; (1 Cor. 15:16). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle εἰ used with the verb in the indicative mood in the protasis (the “if” clause), and either the indicative mood or the imperative mood (or the subjunctive mood in the case of a prohibition) in the apodosis (the “then” clause).
2. The supposition of a possibility. Example: If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. (John 7:17). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis, and either the indicative mood or the imperative mood (or the aorist subjunctive with οὐ μὴ) in the apodosis.
3. The supposition of an uncertainty. Example: who ought to have been present before you and to make accusation, if they should have anything against me. (Acts 24:19). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle εἰ used with the verb in the optative mood. There are no examples in the New Testament where this kind of conditional sentence is used having both the protasis and the apodosis.
4 The supposition of something contrary to fact. Example: If God were your Father, you would love Me. (John 8:42). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle εἰ used with the verb in the protasis and the Greek particle ἂν ̓ used with the verb in the apodosis with the indicative mood used in both the protasis and the apodosis.
With this information in mind, let’s look at the conditional sentences that we find in John 15:1-10:
John 15:4. “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.” Although it is not apparent from this English translation, this verse does include a conditional clause and we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis. (Compare Young’s Literal Translation of the Bible, “remain in me, and I in you, as the branch is not able to bear fruit of itself, if it may not remain in the vine, so neither ye, if ye may not remain in me.”)
John 15:6. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.” Here we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis and in the indicative mood in the apodosis.
John 15:7. “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you”. Here we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis and in the indicative mood in the apodosis.
John 15:10. “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.” Here we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis and in the indicative mood in the apodosis. The significance of this is that subjunctive mood in the protasis indicates that, in the mind of the speaker (Jesus), our keeping His commandments is a supposition of a possibility. Therefore it is not a question of who keeps us from falling, but a question of whether or not we continue to obey Christ and thereby continue to abide in Him. The choice, according to these words of Jesus, is ours.
John 15:16. “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.” We have no conditional clauses in this verse, but the verb that we are studying (translated here “remain” rather than “abide”) is in the subjunctive mood, the mood expressing a probability rather than a certainty. It is also worth pointing out that the mood of the several other verbs in this verse, hence:
John 15:16. “You did not choose (indicative) Me but I chose (indicative) you, and appointed (indicative) you that you would go (subjunctive) and bear (subjunctive) fruit, and that your fruit would remain (subjunctive), so that whatever you ask (subjunctive) of the Father in My name He may (subjunctive) give (subjunctive) to you.”
John 15:1. “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2. “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3. “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4. “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5. “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7. “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
The word “abide” in verse 4 is in the subjunctive mood; Jesus is telling his disciple that unless they remain in him, they cannot bear fruit.
The word “abide” in verse 5 is in the imperative mood; Jesus is commanding His disciple to abide in him.
The word “abide” in verse 6 is in the subjunctive mood; Jesus is telling his disciple that if anyone does not remain in him, they are cast into the fire and are burned. It is very interesting that verbs translated “thrown” and “dries up” are in the Greek aorist tense, a tense indicating past action completed at a point in time, as though anyone who fails to remain in Christ is viewed by God as already having been dried up and thrown out like a dried up branch to be cast into the fire where they are burned. This is a very stern warning in vivid language to those individuals who are in Christ that the consequence of failing to obey His command to remain in Him is to be dried up and burned like a dried up branch of a vine.
The word “abide” in verse 7 is in the subjunctive mood in both of its occurrences in this verse; Jesus is telling his disciple that if they (the you is plural) abide in Him and His words abide in them, they are to ask (imperative mood and hence a command) for whatever they wish and it will be done for them.
In these verses the word “if” means “if,” not “since,” and that the promises found in these verse, both the good and the bad, are conditional upon the disciples, individually, continuing to abide (remaining) in Christ, and His words continuing to abide (remaining) in them. How do we continue to abide in Christ? Jesus answered that question for us, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
God has chosen us and appointed us, but what we do with that choice and the appointments is up to us. (John 15:16)
(All quotations from Scripture in English are from the NASB, 1995)
32. and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
Col. 1:23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.
The Gospel According to John explicitly teaches that our salvation is conditional upon our abiding in Christ, and the Greek word translated ‘abide’ in English is the Greek word μένω meaning to ‘abide,’ ‘remain,’ and ‘stay’ and is used in twelve of the New Testament books with these meanings. But before we go any further with this, we need to address the construction of conditional sentences in New Testament Greek.
There are the four kinds of conditional sentences found in the Greek New Testament:
1. The supposition of a fact. Example: For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; (1 Cor. 15:16). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle εἰ used with the verb in the indicative mood in the protasis (the “if” clause), and either the indicative mood or the imperative mood (or the subjunctive mood in the case of a prohibition) in the apodosis (the “then” clause).
2. The supposition of a possibility. Example: If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. (John 7:17). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis, and either the indicative mood or the imperative mood (or the aorist subjunctive with οὐ μὴ) in the apodosis.
3. The supposition of an uncertainty. Example: who ought to have been present before you and to make accusation, if they should have anything against me. (Acts 24:19). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle εἰ used with the verb in the optative mood. There are no examples in the New Testament where this kind of conditional sentence is used having both the protasis and the apodosis.
4 The supposition of something contrary to fact. Example: If God were your Father, you would love Me. (John 8:42). In this kind of conditional sentence we find the conditional Greek particle εἰ used with the verb in the protasis and the Greek particle ἂν ̓ used with the verb in the apodosis with the indicative mood used in both the protasis and the apodosis.
With this information in mind, let’s look at the conditional sentences that we find in John 15:1-10:
John 15:4. “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.” Although it is not apparent from this English translation, this verse does include a conditional clause and we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis. (Compare Young’s Literal Translation of the Bible, “remain in me, and I in you, as the branch is not able to bear fruit of itself, if it may not remain in the vine, so neither ye, if ye may not remain in me.”)
John 15:6. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.” Here we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis and in the indicative mood in the apodosis.
John 15:7. “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you”. Here we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis and in the indicative mood in the apodosis.
John 15:10. “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.” Here we find the conditional Greek particle ἐὰν ̓ used with the verb in the subjunctive mood in the protasis and in the indicative mood in the apodosis. The significance of this is that subjunctive mood in the protasis indicates that, in the mind of the speaker (Jesus), our keeping His commandments is a supposition of a possibility. Therefore it is not a question of who keeps us from falling, but a question of whether or not we continue to obey Christ and thereby continue to abide in Him. The choice, according to these words of Jesus, is ours.
John 15:16. “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.” We have no conditional clauses in this verse, but the verb that we are studying (translated here “remain” rather than “abide”) is in the subjunctive mood, the mood expressing a probability rather than a certainty. It is also worth pointing out that the mood of the several other verbs in this verse, hence:
John 15:16. “You did not choose (indicative) Me but I chose (indicative) you, and appointed (indicative) you that you would go (subjunctive) and bear (subjunctive) fruit, and that your fruit would remain (subjunctive), so that whatever you ask (subjunctive) of the Father in My name He may (subjunctive) give (subjunctive) to you.”
John 15:1. “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2. “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3. “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4. “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5. “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7. “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
The word “abide” in verse 4 is in the subjunctive mood; Jesus is telling his disciple that unless they remain in him, they cannot bear fruit.
The word “abide” in verse 5 is in the imperative mood; Jesus is commanding His disciple to abide in him.
The word “abide” in verse 6 is in the subjunctive mood; Jesus is telling his disciple that if anyone does not remain in him, they are cast into the fire and are burned. It is very interesting that verbs translated “thrown” and “dries up” are in the Greek aorist tense, a tense indicating past action completed at a point in time, as though anyone who fails to remain in Christ is viewed by God as already having been dried up and thrown out like a dried up branch to be cast into the fire where they are burned. This is a very stern warning in vivid language to those individuals who are in Christ that the consequence of failing to obey His command to remain in Him is to be dried up and burned like a dried up branch of a vine.
The word “abide” in verse 7 is in the subjunctive mood in both of its occurrences in this verse; Jesus is telling his disciple that if they (the you is plural) abide in Him and His words abide in them, they are to ask (imperative mood and hence a command) for whatever they wish and it will be done for them.
In these verses the word “if” means “if,” not “since,” and that the promises found in these verse, both the good and the bad, are conditional upon the disciples, individually, continuing to abide (remaining) in Christ, and His words continuing to abide (remaining) in them. How do we continue to abide in Christ? Jesus answered that question for us, “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
God has chosen us and appointed us, but what we do with that choice and the appointments is up to us. (John 15:16)
(All quotations from Scripture in English are from the NASB, 1995)
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Since when has fruit production been the basis of salvation instead of the determining of rewards in heaven? Is this not a matter of productivity and not salvation? Jesus is addressing His disciples, and telling them that whatever they ask in His name the Father will grant. In context, isn’t this about the Lord’s disciples and their efficacy in spreading the Gospel?
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John 15:5. “I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
5. Christians who abide in Christ bear much fruit.
6. Christians who do NOT abide in Christ are thrown away!
No! This passage is about abiding in Christ.
6. “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
5. Christians who abide in Christ bear much fruit.
6. Christians who do NOT abide in Christ are thrown away!
No! This passage is about abiding in Christ.
Another thing I don’t understand....as a non believer I was in darkness/sin......which I didn’t even know until I became born again....I inherited my sin from Adam and Eve.
It wasn’t until I became born again that I realised that....because it was God who shone his light into my dead soul.....that is when I came alive in the spirit...my sins had been forgiven I am in Christ.....
I find it hard that some don’t understand that?
It wasn’t until I became born again that I realised that....because it was God who shone his light into my dead soul.....that is when I came alive in the spirit...my sins had been forgiven I am in Christ.....
I find it hard that some don’t understand that?