Attacks on the Rapture: a popular pastime among some Christians

[TheDivineWatermark]

Both thlipsis and tribulum suggest a harvest implement for separating the wheat from the chaff (or the wine from the grapes). It suggests the Tribulation as a time of separating the men from the boys, or the true believers from the non-believers. If the believers are not present, then what is there to separate?

[...]or that the Tribulation separates those who come to belief after the Rapture.

[as to your last sentence ^] YES! This is what I was pointing out in earlier posts, that Paul is making that very point to say.

The CONTRAST between the two distinct "beliefs" people will come to embrace FOLLOWING "our Rapture/'THE Departure'," and that God (knowing their hearts / mindsets), the passage says (in part) "SHALL SEND *THEM* [that is, certain ones] STRONG DELUSION, THAT they should believe the LIE/the FALSE/the pseudei..." (which is FOLLOWING "our Rapture/'THE Departure'"), whereas OTHERS will come to believe what is TRUE (about "what just happened" and about "Christ" Who we've been corporately "proclaiming" on the earth up until "our Rapture/'THE Departure'" of us...)


It's not that "believers" [/"saints"] won't be "present on the earth" at all then, but they will have "come to faith" FOLLOWING our Rapture (and "our Rapture" event is a primary IMPETUS that is what will point Israel [esp'ly] to HIM/their MESSIAH... but many will take an opposite stance, and instead "believe the LIE / strong DELUSION"... at that time). This is one of the PURPOSES for "our Rapture" (as just such an "impetus" prior to His "RETURN" to the earth at Rev19, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom, see--which "rapture-event-as-IMPETUS" for them, is to be understood as a GOOD thing, and for their sakes).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

What in Matt25:31-42 makes you [...]

Oops, I meant to say, "Matt25:31-46..."

 

[KJV1611]

If you are claiming that Christians since 30 AD have never died physically but have all been Raptured, you should know that that is absurd. There are Christian funerals being held daily all across the world.

Those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection/Rapture DO NOT TEACH that any believer is excluded. Those who died in Christ are presently in Heaven (their souls and spirits). At the Resurrection/Rapture, all those saints will receive glorified bodies. But the ones who are alive at the time of the Rapture will be totally transformed, perfected, and also receive glorified bodies. So no one is excluded.

So if you think this is heresy, obviously you have ignored all the Scriptures which teach this truth. Let's take the example of Stephen who was martyred almost immediately after Pentecost. His soul and spirit went directly to be with Christ in Heaven, while his body was interred in the grave (Acts 7,8). So when Christ comes at the Resurrection/Rapture, He will bring with Him Stephen (and every saint who died) and they will all receive glorious resurrected bodies.

Every human being on this planet has or will die. Christians dead bodies are in the grave right now and always will be.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive

Heb 9:27 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

All men die including Enoch and Elijah.

Heb 11:5 (KJV) By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Enoch was caught up just prior to the DEATH of his body, so that Enoch NEVER SAW DEATH. Just like Noah never SAW DEATH. The same with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and every person in the world that has died or will die in Christ.

God is the God of the LIVING, not the GOD
of the DEAD. Gods people are never present in this body when it’s time to for it to die.

Hopefully now you can see what the Bible means when it says “the NEW HEAVEN”. Old testament believers went to the OLD HEAVEN, Abraham’s bosom and remained there until the NEW HEAVEN came at the resurrection of Christ, New Testament believers go DIRECTLY to the NEW HEAVEN, in the presence of God.

The verses that you are calling the rapture is what happened to ALL of them and will happen to all of us.

 

[KJV1611]

And I’m sure after all of the biblical evidence that I just posted, the rude, smart ass, holier than than thou arguments over a non existent pre “7 year tribulation” nonexistent rapture and nonexistent post “7 year” nonexistent rapture will continue.

The heresy of the rapture should be attacked as a heresy and exposed as the UNBIBLICAL lie that it is.

 

[JaumeJ]

When we read of the resurrection, we know it is an event to come because of the firstborn of the resurrection Who is the Resurrection.

Introducing the English word, rapture, as the better way of saying it has given birth to a doctrine disputed by the two factions declaring in ignorance when it will occur. I say ignorance even though one faction is correct, yet they insist on the more stylish word, rapture, confusing many who consider it a new doctrine of the truth...It is not.

 

[cv5]

And I’m sure after all of the biblical evidence that I just posted, the rude, smart ass, holier than than thou arguments over a non existent pre “7 year tribulation” nonexistent rapture and nonexistent post “7 year” nonexistent rapture will continue.

The heresy of the rapture should be attacked as a heresy and exposed as the UNBIBLICAL lie that it is.

Well..... you are trying to attack and expose it as a heresy. But you are hardly succeeding. In fact you are failing miserably.

 

[Truth7t7]

...and by the way, I too see the "kingdom" as being "eternal"... It's just that the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom is pretty much the first 1000 yrs of it, so to speak. = ) (not that the "earth" is the ONLY aspect of it [existing] during the MK, but that the "earthly MK" aspect of it is indeed "on the earth" lol--Daniel 7:27 [following the specific time-period of verse 25], "the greatness of the kingdom UNDER the whole heaven..." [not speaking of that which is "UP IN Heaven" here])

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Matthew 25:46 represents the GWT, no human bodies are left to populate earth, eternity dosent have mortals human present for 1,000 years, judgement is complete.

There is no mortal Millennial Kingdom Seen, None!

Matthew 25 sheep/goats judgement is nothing more than a "Parable" of the Great White Throne judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15

As is clearly seen in Matthew 25:46 the final judgement takes place, as the wicked are judged to everlasting punishment, and the righteous enter eternal life, in the "ETERNAL KINGDOM"!

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Absolutely]

The resurrection is in (four parts)?

Your claim is "False" and a fairy tale.

There is "One" future resurrection of all John 5:28-29, it takes place immediately after the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31, on the "Last Day" John 6:40, 11:23-24

Uh...hello????
Firstfruits????

What on earth is your "interpretation" of firstfruits?????

 

[Absolutely]

The resurrection is in (four parts)?

Your claim is "False" and a fairy tale.

There is "One" future resurrection of all John 5:28-29, it takes place immediately after the tribulation Matthew 24:29-31, on the "Last Day" John 6:40, 11:23-24

Lol
No,that one is the gwtj after the mil.

 

[Absolutely]

Jesus firstfruits.
Those resurrected and walking in Jerusalem are part of that.
Main harvest 1 thes 4
Foolish virgins follow through martyrdom as "the innumerable number "
The 2 witnesses next.the the 144k jewish believers.
Then the ripe fruit. In rev 14.

ALL MAKING UP THE FIRST RESURRECTION.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Truth7t7]

Lol
No,that one is the gwtj after the mil.

No such thing as a Millennium on earth, a fairytale.

When Jesus Christ returns its fire time in final judgement, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by fire, 2 Peter 3:10 13

 

[Absolutely]

There ya have it, the post- trib second coming and rapture.

Matthew24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You just posted that after the trib;

1)Angel's gather...not Jesus

2) they gather from heaven....not earth

No rapture atcall after the trib.
Mat 24 has no verses pointing to or directly declaring a post trib rapture.

So is that your only verse that you think voids our 15 or 20 verses?

 

[Absolutely]

No such thing as a Millennium on earth, a fairytale.

When Jesus Christ returns its fire time in final judgement, as the heavens and earth are dissolved by fire, 2 Peter 3:10 13

Ok how do you arrive at the omission of the vividly portrayed millineum?

 

[Absolutely]

Reckless disregard of truth is a big "Understatement"

Which of our many verses are a "disregard "?
We initiate verses,
You throw out generalized abstract objections.

Do you ever unpack verses?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

When we read of the resurrection, we know it is an event to come because of the firstborn of the resurrection Who is the Resurrection.

Introducing the English word, rapture, as the better way of saying it has given birth to a doctrine disputed by the two factions declaring in ignorance when it will occur. I say ignorance even though one faction is correct, yet they insist on the more stylish word, rapture, confusing many who consider it a new doctrine of the truth...It is not.

Again, "resurrection [whether G386 or G1454 see Listing here- https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=resurrection&t=KJV&ss=1#s=s_primary_0_1 ]
is a completely different word and idea being conveyed, from the other word being discussed ([commonly called "rapture" meaning "caught up/away; SNATCHED [G726 - harpazo]"), see below for the 3 different languages we're talking about for this word (in 1Th4:17, and used elsewhere also):


Latin Vulgate [400s ad] -

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - "Deinde nos, qui vivimus, qui relinquimur, simul rapiemur [G726 - rapir (etc)] cum illis in nubibus obviam Christo in aëra, et sic semper cum Domino erimus."

[ ^ that's where we get our present day word "rapture" which is just Latin for the English word "caught up" in 1Th4:17]



Greek Textus Receptus -

1 Thessalonians 4:17 - "4:17 ἔπειτα ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι ἅμα σὺν αὐτοῖς ἁρπαγησόμεθα [G726] ἐν νεφέλαις εἰς ἀπάντησιν τοῦ κυρίου εἰς ἀέρα καὶ οὕτως πάντοτε σὺν κυρίῳ ἐσόμεθα "




English KJV [1611 ad] -

1 Thessalonans 4:17 - "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."





Greek - αρπαγησομεθα / αρπαζω ; Transliteration: harpagēsometha / harpazó [G726] - Engl: "caught up"

https://biblehub.com/greek/726.htm [G726]

https://biblehub.com/text/1_thessalonians/4-17.htm [1 Thessalonians 4:17--see G726]



So, I guess if you lived in the 400s ad, you might consider "rapiemur [G726 - rapir (etc)]" to have been the "more fashionable" way of saying it... I find that one hard to pronounce.

If I call it by the Greek "harpazo," few today would grasp what concept I'm speaking of.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

... and in fact, when one says the word "rapture" today (which means "CAUGHT UP / SNATCHED away"), many people don't have THAT idea "come to mind," but instead, immediately "picture" RESURRECTION (a completely DISTINCT thing, meaning "to stand again [on the earth]" after having been physically dead [except where a passage might be LIKENING it TO a resurrection]). Not all who are "caught up / snatched away" have been physically "RESURRECTED" from the dead, and not all who've been or will ever be "resurrected" will be "caught up / raptured / SNATCHED away / harpazo'd"... they are distinct concepts.

 

[cv5]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Matthew 25:46 represents the GWT, no human bodies are left to populate earth, eternity dosent have mortals human present for 1,000 years, judgement is complete.

There is no mortal Millennial Kingdom Seen, None!

Matthew 25 sheep/goats judgement is nothing more than a "Parable" of the Great White Throne judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15

As is clearly seen in Matthew 25:46 the final judgement takes place, as the wicked are judged to everlasting punishment, and the righteous enter eternal life, in the "ETERNAL KINGDOM"!

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

TheDivineWatermark has you beat. And badly at that. I am calling it a rout.

 

[JaumeJ]

People argue THE RAPTURE, as though the subject is not already taught in the Word. It confuses some; that is all.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but Matthew 25:46 represents the GWT, no human bodies are left to populate earth, eternity dosent have mortals human present for 1,000 years, judgement is complete.

There is no mortal Millennial Kingdom Seen, None!

Matthew 25 sheep/goats judgement is nothing more than a "Parable" of the Great White Throne judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15
As is clearly seen in Matthew 25:46 the final judgement takes place, as the wicked are judged to everlasting punishment, and the righteous enter eternal life, in the "ETERNAL KINGDOM"!
Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

I believe it was you (forgive me if I'm mistaken on this) who, not too many posts ago, used one of the passages to say that it is saying "the end OF THE WORLD". The problem with that is, that Jesus (and His disciples later) was saying "the end [singular] OF THE AGE [singular]" Matt13:30,39,49-50, for example, which passage followed what He had just said to them about "[re: age-singular] the one TO COME/COMING" in Matthew 12:32 - "...neither in this age [singular], nor in the age COMING [SINGULAR]". "Age [singular]" is attached with earth-time and -history. His disciples understood Him accurately (regarding this) as their proper "expectation" (the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom--though they were unaware of its TIMING). And it IS their proper expectation, as Acts 3:21 states, "whom heaven must receive UNTIL the timeS of restoration OF ALL THINGS WHICH GOD SPAKE BY the mouths of His holy prophets from the age" [i.e. the OT prophets concerning this issue ]






[and, by the way, the passages speaking of "one shall be taken, the other LEFT" is what will take place at the time of His Second Coming TO THE EARTH (not a Rapture context, here), where just like in Noah's day, the ones "taken" are "taken away in judgment," and the ones "left" will be "left to enter the earthly MK age" in their mortal bodies, JUST LIKE IN NOAH'S DAY ]

 

[KJV1611]

Well..... you are trying to attack and expose it as a heresy. But you are hardly succeeding. In fact you are failing miserably.

Normally the success rate is very very low when dealing with cults. Cultist ignore plain easy to understanding verbiage like it is appointed to man once to die. You don’t believe that whatsoever because your cult, not the Bible, has taught you that the bodies of special groups like Enoch and Elijah and your special group will never die.

Cults are never interested in biblical truth.