Are you a Trinitarian, and if so, can you defend the doctrine?

[biker]

Outside of Unitarians being represented here, are there also some 4 square?

Not that I care if you're Unitarian, 4 Square, Trinitarian, whatever, just interested.

 

[Mattathias]

you think hundreds of thousands of people being burned alive in front of their loved ones for thousands of years had no effect on people? not sure on that one.
Isaac Newton wrote books on the trinity and why it was not biblical. he kept them in code and hidden because of fear of persecution. so it definitely had an effect on him.

Of course it had/has an effect on people. It hardens the hearts of some and grieves the hearts of others.

 

[Laish]

you think hundreds of thousands of people being burned alive in front of their loved ones for thousands of years had no effect on people? not sure on that one.
Isaac Newton wrote books on the trinity and why it was not biblical. he kept them in code and hidden because of fear of persecution. so it definitely had an effect on him.

Not following here . ( in bold ) heaven and hell are in the same location? Or glorified saints are omniscient or something similar?
Blessings
Bill

 

[jaybird88]

Of course it had/has an effect on people. It hardens the hearts of some and grieves the hearts of others.

so when Jesus and the 12 taught did they burn alive anyone that didnt accept their teachings?

 

[Laish]

That’s a great question!

Who and how many persons does Jesus say his God is?

Who? The Father.

How many persons is the Father? 1.

A person whose God is one person is by definition a unitarian.

Jesus of of Nazareth. Messiah. Son of God. Unitarian.

When anyone calls on the name of this Jesus they are calling on the name of a unitarian.

Ok was wondering where you are coming from .
You do know there is a difference between being or essence and personhood ?
Blessings
Bill

 

[Laish]

so when Jesus and the 12 taught did they burn alive anyone that didnt accept their teachings?

Can you elaborate on this one ? Scripture please for context . Thanks
Blessings
Bill

 

[Mattathias]

so when Jesus and the 12 taught did they burn alive anyone that didnt accept their teachings?

Absolutely not.

 

[Mattathias]

Ok was wondering where you are coming from .
You do know there is a difference between being or essence and personhood ?
Blessings
Bill

I’m well-versed in trinitarian theology. (I’m a retired professor of theology, as well as a retired pastor.)

Would you be able to acknowledge that a person who says that their God is only one person, the Father, is a unitarian?

If not, what is your definition of “unitarian“?

 

[Mattathias]

He was a monotheist, but not a "unitarian" in the sense that you are using the word.

The only sense that I am using the term “unitarian” is this: His God is only one person, the Father.

If that sense is not true then please explain what you believe is untrue about it.

 

[Laish]

I’m well-versed in trinitarian theology. (I’m a retired professor of theology, as well as a retired pastor.)

Would you be able to acknowledge that a person who says that their God is only one person, the Father, is a unitarian?

If not, what is your definition of “unitarian“?

My definition is a bit up in the air due to most Unitarians I have met don’t agree on some profound things . Some practice some form of Sabellianism while others seem to follow Arianism . You also have those that are universalist. . Still others just only say they just deny the Trinity . It’s a mixed bag .
One group says this about themselves that their religious movement is base on reason and experience . The later ones view of scripture is only to be imagined
So my definition is way to open to be precise .

You just inserted the only here . Why. Your other post did not have it .
As for being a retired prof what dose that mean . I know two theology and biblical languages professors that disagree with you . Past or current professions add no validity to a statement. One can be educated and wrong or educated and correct .
No insult intended.
Blessings
Bill

 

[Mattathias]

My definition is a bit up in the air due to most Unitarians I have met don’t agree on some profound things . Some practice some form of Sabellianism while others seem to follow Arianism . You also have those that are universalist. . Still others just only say they just deny the Trinity . It’s a mixed bag .
One group says this about themselves that their religious movement is base on reason and experience . The later ones view of scripture is only to be imagined
So my definition is way to open to be precise .

Okay. Thanks.

You just inserted the only here . Why. Your other post did not have it .

For clarification. Perhaps in anticipation of what you wrote above. I can discuss the issues you raised if you or anyone else is interested but I didn’t want to digress from the main point.

As for being a retired prof what dose that mean .

It means that I no longer teach theology at a school.

I know two theology and biblical languages professors that disagree with you .

I don’t know any professors who disagree with my position that the only person who is the God of Jesus is the Father. Nor do I know of any professor who would dispute that a person who believes their God to be only one person, the Father, is unitarian.

Past or current professions add no validity to a statement. One can be educated and wrong or educated and correct .
No insult intended.
Blessings
Bill

No offense taken.

 

[Peterlag]

I’ve been here less than a month. The members here have not been very friendly. How much of that is them (narrow board). How much of that is me (“A man that has friends must himself be friendly” - Prov 18:24, NKJV).

I‘‘ve enjoyed reading your posts and hope you’ll stay here a while.

I could give you all of my posts if you would enjoy having them. The whole 200 pages. Then you would have a lot to fight with me about.

 

[Peterlag]

Not that it matters but I once met Lynn and Schoenheit. I’ve read their book. It’s another one that I recommend to trinitarians and non-trinitarians.

Have you read any of the books written by Anthony Buzzard?

No I don't know who Anthony Buzzard is. But John Lynn is a friend of mine. I gave him a thousand dollars last time I saw him. That was just before the Doc's told him he had cancer.

 

[Mattathias]

No I don't know who Anthony Buzzard is. But John Lynn is a friend of mine. I gave him a thousand dollars last time I saw him. That was just before the Doc's told him he had cancer.

Anthony introduced me to John at a meeting in Atlanta close to 20 years ago. The only thing I gave John was a smile and a handshake. He responded in kind.

Anthony is quoted numerous times in John’s book.

 

[Absolutely]

A great book I read years ago is called "When Jesus Became God" by Richard E. Rubenstein. An historical look at how the Catholics were the first to make Jesus God a good 3 hunfred years after all the Apostles were dead.

The bible did it.
Paul did it
Thomas did it.
Catholics have the trinity correct.

If you make the perfect sacrifice on the cross who resurrected himself anything but God,there is no salvation.

You can not sit at Gods table and disenfranchise Jesus at the same time.

Either your mentors or some mental salvation dynamic,will be your downfall.

At some point of the walk the trinity must be embraced or you spit on God.
Reject God's testimony.

 

[Absolutely]

i am not the bible so it makes little difference what i believe.



i have seen people banned for this like nothing, dont pass go, no explanation, no warning, and you are banned FOREVER! i have been here over five years.

i never said Jesus was not the Most High and i do not reject Jesus is the Most High. however the Most High does in fact command those not to bring false testimony against others. matter of fact is is more than just a sin, it is listed among the seven detestable sins. of all the sins out there the Lord says these are the worst, i would not want to be the one going around committing those sins.

where does Jesus teach one must believe He is the Most High to follow Him? i would like to see it.

Strawman

Like saying "where does Jesus say you must embrace the groom/bride dynamic to be saved"

 

[Absolutely]

FALSE!

I read the Bible and witness the Holy Spirit giving me insight.

The only way you can give the Reasoning like you have is that is most likely how you have broken down God's Word!

If you remove the dynamic of God on the cross nobody is saved

 

[Peterlag]

The bible did it.
Paul did it
Thomas did it.
Catholics have the trinity correct.

If you make the perfect sacrifice on the cross who resurrected himself anything but God,there is no salvation.

You can not sit at Gods table and disenfranchise Jesus at the same time.

Either your mentors or some mental salvation dynamic,will be your downfall.

At some point of the walk the trinity must be embraced or you spit on God.
Reject God's testimony.

I can't think of one thing the Catholics ever got right.

 

[Absolutely]

I can't think of one thing the Catholics ever got right.

Madam guyon was catholic.
Her books are awesome.

 

[jaybird88]

Strawman

Like saying "where does Jesus say you must embrace the groom/bride dynamic to be saved"

just so i understand correctly, if people want to teach others that Jesus commands us to believe He is the Most High, this is perfectly acceptable.
if someone asks where Jesus teaches these things because no such teachings exist, its bad logic? im assuming this is what you mean. "strawman" means no substance which really doesnt apply.

is this what you really believe, that what Jesus actually taught, and what people say He taught are no different. if someone says Jesus commands we wear big purple hats on tuesday and run around the back yard naked we should just do it without question?