Not By Works

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mailmandan

mailmandan

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#144,341
Apr 7, 2014
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#144,341
DorothyMae said:
If a believer refuses in the future to confess sins he did (past at that point) is he still a true believer? You said no true believer refuses to confess sins the Holy Spirit points out. So I am asking the obvious.
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Sounds like an oxymoron and a straw man argument to me.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

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#144,345
May 19, 2020
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#144,345
DorothyMae said:
Like when Jesus told his disciples the unpleasant truth. Hurt em. bad, the truth. But God still thinks the truth is best.
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Yes...like the truth you spoke of me....came from God did it....he testified that of me to your spirit did he???

Post above DorothyMae...from you to me!
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#144,346
Dec 12, 2013
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#144,346
You know, the Calvinists on this thread would tap dance and say we undermine God because we say MAN HAS A CHOICE to choose or not.....THE FUNNY THING is, by their very dogma they DETHRONE GOD and make him out to be an inept god with no power...notice...

They say.....GOD CHOSES MAN A FOR HEAVEN and MAN B FOR HELL and men have no choice and grace is irresistible.....

If this is true, and by their dogma God fails...

God would have ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

If this verse is true and it is, CALVINISM contradicts it......THEY SAY GOD CHOOSES, MAN HAS NO CHOICE and some are chosen for hell.

So, if GOD CHOOSES, man has NO CHOICE, and GOD would have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED........he must be pretty weak then, because HE IS GOD but CANNOT SAVE all men and only chooses a few even though HE WOULD HAVE ALL BE SAVED AND SAVE ALL....

Calvinism is evil and not OF GOD
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#144,347
#144,347
biker said:
I think there is a true difference between someone choosing to leave God and do their own thing VS thinking I am saved so I can still do my own thing.
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Well no,true believer thinks because you are saved you are free to do whatever you want more do they desire to. But you can not chose to leave god. you may chose to be a prodigal son, but god never will forsake you. Those are just his promises,l and without them, no one has hope.

finally. A person who left and is now against Christ, well joh. Said they were never saved,

so we have three groups of people
 
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EleventhHour

Guest
#144,349
#144,349
dcontroversal said:
You know, the Calvinists on this thread would tap dance and say we undermine God because we say MAN HAS A CHOICE to choose or not.....THE FUNNY THING is, by their very dogma they DETHRONE GOD and make him out to be an inept god with no power...notice...

They say.....GOD CHOSES MAN A FOR HEAVEN and MAN B FOR HELL and men have no choice and grace is irresistible.....

If this is true, and by their dogma God fails...

God would have ALL MEN to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

If this verse is true and it is, CALVINISM contradicts it......THEY SAY GOD CHOOSES, MAN HAS NO CHOICE and some are chosen for hell.

So, if GOD CHOOSES, man has NO CHOICE, and GOD would have ALL MEN TO BE SAVED........he must be pretty weak then, because HE IS GOD but CANNOT SAVE all men and only chooses a few even though HE WOULD HAVE ALL BE SAVED AND SAVE ALL....

Calvinism is evil and not OF GOD
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Amen and Amen!!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#144,350
#144,350
biker said:
I did not feel guilty from what I had done until later on in my walk in God. But my Dad was a good human being who loved God. And I promised my Dad I would be with him again. And I stopped the life I was involved in and still being threatened from those who are involved. I just made up my mind I would start living for God. At first, I felt nothing for months. But in the past 6 months, I finally have felt God, I finally know Him intimately, I know I am Saved, and I serve Him for Him. But I came back originally for my Dad only.
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This is worrisome..

how could you as a child live a life and not be chastened,, god calls that being an illegitimate child does he not
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
#144,353
Nov 24, 2013
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#144,353
DorothyMae said:
And you love saying the absurd as long it’s new and different. You hate being corrected.

Eternal Security and OSAS are the same. Just agree and you won’t find people arguing with you for a change:
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No they aren’t. No child of God born of water, born of Spirit will ever be in a place where they aren’t chastened. Just like my Dad and his belt. Though God doesn’t use a belt. We will always be His.

That’s eternal security.


If OSAS means one can go his own way, yet be saved? That’s not scriptural.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#144,354
Fastfredy0 said:
My Question:
Definition of work: activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.

Given: You believe that you of your own free will must believe (mental effort) to be saved (to achieve a result)
Question: How do you explain that you do NO WORK in order to be saved??????
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mental effort. Where do you get that, I made a decision with no effort. God did all the work. At the moment of faith, it just happened,

Thank you for responding ...

I am not going to change you mind, but I will try to see from my point of view.

First, I see where you are coming from I think. I think you believe faith is not a work because God say FAITH is not a work of man. To this we are both agreed. The next question is, "Why does God say Abraham's Faith is not a work of Abraham".

My View to "Why does God say Abraham's Faith is not a work of Abraham".
....I believe faith is not Abraham's work because the faith Abraham has came from God changing Abraham's heart so now Abraham desire/willed to believe as a result. NOTE: This does not conflict with the dictionary definition of believe because Abraham's faith was an effect and God was the cause of said effect.

Your View, as I see it, as to "Why does God say Abraham's Faith is not a work of Abraham".
First, you believe God gave the ability to Abraham to chose to believe or not. Then Abraham did the choosing to believe on his own.
Now, as I see it, you says this is not a work because the bible says it is not a work. To this statement we both agree. But your explanation still has contradictions.
Contradiction 1: The dictionary definition shows us that if Abraham was the cause of his belief (mental effort per dictionary) he would be saved (to achieve a purpose per dictionary). So you have a contradiction with the meaning of words per the dictionary.
Contradiction 2: Many verses to show did but just give John 1:12-13 which state one is not saved by his own will, but the will of God.

So, as I pointed out before ... there are many verses saying WHAT we must do to be saved, that is believe like you pointed out. But the only verses that tell us WHY WE BELIEVE are verses stating GOD changed our hearts. Which is to say God is the CAUSE and our FAITH is the effect. Phil 1:29, Rom 3:12; 1 Cor 3:12, Eph. 2:8-9; Deuteronomy 29:4, Jeremiah 24:7, Ezekiel 36:26–27, Luke 17:5; John 6:29; John 15:5; Acts 3:16, Rom. 8:7; 1 Corinthians 2;5, 1 Corinthians 12:7; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 6:23, Colossians 1:3, 2 Thessalonians 1:3; 1 Timothy 1:13; Hebrews 12:2 ... getting tired of listing all verses indicating faith causes us to believe comes from God. Probably 20 verses saying it is God's will as to who he chooses to be saved, or wills to be saved ... 40 verses saying we aren't capable of being saved, on and on and on ...
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Once again, my faith did not come from my effort, that is where the disconnect is., yu think things about me which are not true, maybe because it is what you are taught?

your riht, abraham made no effort.. nor did I.

but we both had free will and could have said no in the end, in which case we would never have heard of abraham and I would not be here now
 
B

biker

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Apr 5, 2020
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eternally-gratefull said:
Well no,true believer thinks because you are saved you are free to do whatever you want more do they desire to. But you can not chose to leave god. you may chose to be a prodigal son, but god never will forsake you. Those are just his promises,l and without them, no one has hope.

finally. A person who left and is now against Christ, well joh. Said they were never saved,

so we have three groups of people
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This is a Relationship.

You know how we preach how we are different compared to cults?

Therefore, a Relationships requires 2 willing people.

Even if one remains, as long as the other leaves, there is no Relationship!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#144,356
Fastfredy0 said:
I agree, I AM SPECIAL to God. (aside: your post was not directed to me specifically)

Qualification: I AM SPECIAL to God because of what He has done. I have done NOTHING of merit.

All sons of God are SPECIAL by definition. :)
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But he thought all men were special, and he has no desire than anyone should perish.

that’s the point,
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
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#144,357
biker said:
This is a Relationship.

You know how we preach how we are different compared to cults?

Therefore, a Relationships requires 2 willing people.

Even if one remains, as long as the other leaves, there is no Relationship!
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It’s a father son relationship

even if the son leaves he is still the son,,he does not stop being his fathers son just because he leaves,
 
stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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#144,358
biker said:
This is a Relationship.

You know how we preach how we are different compared to cults?

Therefore, a Relationships requires 2 willing people.

Even if one remains, as long as the other leaves, there is no Relationship!
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You mean no correspondence biker. Relationships father-son; daughter-mother cant be wiped out.

I see we said the same thing EG.
 
B

biker

Banned
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Apr 5, 2020
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#144,359
eternally-gratefull said:
This is worrisome..

how could you as a child live a life and not be chastened,, god calls that being an illegitimate child does he not
Click to expand...


I did not feel guilty when told my Dad I would begin living for God. I just started reading my Bible and praying. Literally, there was like a hole and void for 18 months. I did not know if God was hearing me or how to gage if God had brought me back in. But about 6 months ago, I said to God, I was wrong about everything, I was wrong to only serve you for my Dad. And since then, I have felt like the fire of God has been rekindled within me, Scripture has opened up to me in a different light. And when I seek answers, it no longer feels like I am waiting an Eternity (with 1 exception). I don't know what else to tell you. But somehow it finally changed.
 
jackrosie

jackrosie

Banned
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May 19, 2020
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#144,360
biker said:
This is a Relationship.

You know how we preach how we are different compared to cults?

Therefore, a Relationships requires 2 willing people.

Even if one remains, as long as the other leaves, there is no Relationship!
Click to expand...

I have wandered off for a long time....but God Never left me.........my life had a void but I always knew he was still with me....just waiting for me to come back to him.....which I did....it was a lesson well learnt..
 
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