who's the boss?

[Lanolin]

In spirtual terms its Jesus of course.
But one thing that makes marriage unappealing (for women anyway) is that men always want to be or assume they are boss in a marriage, and often it turns out they are NOT christlike. Then you find that the entire rest of your life is always controlled by your husband,,,,where you live, what you eat, what you wear, how you look, what you spend....and this happens to MANY women.

Think of your own parents...who was the 'head' or boss in that marriage? Did it work? Men dont really like being told what to do, but then women dont either.
Thats human nature. why would women want to give up their autonomy? why do men feel the need to control women? Just doesnt seem like a good deal to me.

 

[tourist]

As a husband I may be the head of the household but I am certainly not the boss of my wife. As far as being submissive I ask nothing from her and she is not my personal slave to wait on me hand -n- foot. My wife did not have to give up her autonomy when she married me. We each have our own unique role to play in our marriage and we do this willingly and with love.

 

[Runningman]

In spirtual terms its Jesus of course.
But one thing that makes marriage unappealing (for women anyway) is that men always want to be or assume they are boss in a marriage, and often it turns out they are NOT christlike. Then you find that the entire rest of your life is always controlled by your husband,,,,where you live, what you eat, what you wear, how you look, what you spend....and this happens to MANY women.

Think of your own parents...who was the 'head' or boss in that marriage? Did it work? Men dont really like being told what to do, but then women dont either.
Thats human nature. why would women want to give up their autonomy? why do men feel the need to control women? Just doesnt seem like a good deal to me.

I don't think that being a leader means that someone has to be overbearing. I would say what you're describing is probably an atypical experience and not representative of most men, certainly not all men.

I think it's complicated because in some societies there are traditional familys, traditional gender roles, traditional work roles, etc. where a man works a job and provides for his family who are staying home cooking and raising children.

This is also becoming more and more uncommon over time as cultural upheavals, especially in Western societies, disrupt the established norms and create a sense of instability. This is the heart of the destruction of the typical family unit and the high divorce rate that plagues families. People just aren't on the same page anymore.

People raised in the kind of societies mentioned above where there are gender roles learn these norms from their parents then go on to practice them in their own lives. You could say society begins at the family level and cascades down through the generations until accepted norms are established. What kind of society does a generation of divorced men and single mothers create?

So what we see now are a generation of men who think their role is to open door for women, provide for their family, and lead their spouse, not in an overbearing way of course, only to have it repeatedly thrown back in their face over and over. Some people wonder why chivalry has died. What do you think?

 

[Lanolin]

I think men need to learn how to do more child rearing and how to cook...and clean and take more responsibilty in those areas, I think its a good thing as men get more into cooking rather than think oh this man cooks he therefore must be a chef in a restuarant.

The problem with divorced men and single mothers is they just dont know how to live together and work together. One side is going one direction and the other in the opposite.

women CAN provide for their family dont couples have joint accounts for this purpose? or are they only work for pocket money. If the husband gets made redundant or the business fails. then is the wife gonna put him down for it? It would seem men are just too proud to accept that women can work. This isnt throwing in their face its saying men wake up we are both in this TOGETHER. its not ALL on you to provide. if it was then the children would never see you and women would just be stuck at home cooking all day everyday. Do men not know that cooking isnt always a womans forte.

 

[Lanolin]

Another thing is a mans single income isnt enough to pay a mortgage these days, it might have been adequate 50 years ago but in no way is that the case now,You do need at least TWO incomes. That is if you want a home of your own.

 

[Hungry]

I think men need to learn how to do more child rearing and how to cook...and clean and take more responsibilty in those areas, I think its a good thing as men get more into cooking rather than think oh this man cooks he therefore must be a chef in a restuarant.

The problem with divorced men and single mothers is they just dont know how to live together and work together. One side is going one direction and the other in the opposite.

women CAN provide for their family dont couples have joint accounts for this purpose? or are they only work for pocket money. If the husband gets made redundant or the business fails. then is the wife gonna put him down for it? It would seem men are just too proud to accept that women can work. This isnt throwing in their face its saying men wake up we are both in this TOGETHER. its not ALL on you to provide. if it was then the children would never see you and women would just be stuck at home cooking all day everyday. Do men not know that cooking isnt always a womans forte.

Well, clearly you don’t live in Canada. I don’t know any dudes that don’t help out with the cooking and shopping and laundry. Along with that they still earn a living and take care of yard maintenance and house repairs. Also they do a good portion of driving to and from activities. In your little corner of the world things must be a bit different.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Then you find that the entire rest of your life is always controlled by your husband,,,,where you live, what you eat, what you wear, how you look, what you spend....and this happens to MANY women.

I think what happens to women in these situations is that they get used to this lifestyle and give up/lose their willpower and spark. They are not too happy but are not being badly abused and thus not unhappy enough to divorce. They have kids and at least have security through the marriage. Psychologically speaking men are controlling/ territorial whereas women seek security. So we see this played out in relationships.

 

[Runningman]

I think men need to learn how to do more child rearing and how to cook...and clean and take more responsibilty in those areas, I think its a good thing as men get more into cooking rather than think oh this man cooks he therefore must be a chef in a restuarant.

The problem with divorced men and single mothers is they just dont know how to live together and work together. One side is going one direction and the other in the opposite.

women CAN provide for their family dont couples have joint accounts for this purpose? or are they only work for pocket money. If the husband gets made redundant or the business fails. then is the wife gonna put him down for it? It would seem men are just too proud to accept that women can work. This isnt throwing in their face its saying men wake up we are both in this TOGETHER. its not ALL on you to provide. if it was then the children would never see you and women would just be stuck at home cooking all day everyday. Do men not know that cooking isnt always a womans forte.

I think it depends on the dynamic of the relationship. If both people are working and neither one is there all the time to run the house then it's just a matter of dividing up responsibilities. Responsibilities can change as necessary, like every other day husband and wife can switch roles between cooking, cleaning, etc or make everything a joint effort. There's freedom to decide.

What I don't agree with is when someone works all day as the single source of income and then has additional cooking, cleaning, and child responsibilities as if being a provider wasn't enough. If someone is going to stay home all day, it's not a lot to ask for them to have dinner ready, things cleaned up, and the child looked after. It doesn't have to be the woman in this role, it can be the man. There's freedom to decide.

Yes I understand people get burnt out and need rest from their responsibilities sometimes, but I don't think it's a matter men not carrying their own weight as you seem to be suggesting. Giving a family the resources they need to thrive is invaluable and using those resources properly, without squabbling, is also invaluable. Questioning it comes off as ungrateful and ultimately quite discouraging.

People should be careful to occasionally affirm their gratitude and a instill a sense of adequacy in their spouse.

 

[Lanolin]

I think it depends on the dynamic of the relationship. If both people are working and neither one is there all the time to run the house then it's just a matter of dividing up responsibilities. Responsibilities can change as necessary, like every other day husband and wife can switch roles between cooking, cleaning, etc or make everything a joint effort. There's freedom to decide.

What I don't agree with is when someone works all day as the single source of income and then has additional cooking, cleaning, and child responsibilities as if being a provider wasn't enough. If someone is going to stay home all day, it's not a lot to ask for them to have dinner ready, things cleaned up, and the child looked after. It doesn't have to be the woman in this role, it can be the man. There's freedom to decide.

Yes I understand people get burnt out and need rest from their responsibilities sometimes, but I don't think it's a matter men not carrying their own weight as you seem to be suggesting. Giving a family the resources they need to thrive is invaluable and using those resources properly, without squabbling, is also invaluable. Questioning it comes off as ungrateful and ultimately quite discouraging.

People should be careful to occasionally affirm their gratitude and a instill a sense of adequacy in their spouse.

hmm nobody stays home all day both work it seems so why is it on the women who works AS WELL to always cook and clean while the man doesnt do anything?

the reality is women are NOT staying at home all day. They NEED to work as well or there will be no food on the table. maybe its only a certain class of people who have the privelige of staying home all day cos I know nobody on a single income. Even if people are working from home, they are still earning a crust and need to work.

most parents are not relying on one person to bring in everything. Cos it aint enough.

 

[Lanolin]

childcare arrangements are usually with grandparents, as that has always been what they are there for, most families would actually collapse if the grandparents or aunties did not help.

 

[Lanolin]

I think what happens to women in these situations is that they get used to this lifestyle and give up/lose their willpower and spark. They are not too happy but are not being badly abused and thus not unhappy enough to divorce. They have kids and at least have security through the marriage. Psychologically speaking men are controlling/ territorial whereas women seek security. So we see this played out in relationships.

its weird I would wonder why they become such doormats and then have huge blow ups when its time to empty the nest. or never empty the nest in some cases.

 

[Lanolin]

I think dividing up responisbilties is fine but Ive seen it with my own parents complaints by the wife who doesnt appreciate her lot in life, I just say well you married thats what you signed up for. Its not like my mum ever taught my dad how to cook and then just starts berating him when he doesnt know how. and Id be like well you refuse to drive anywhere so rely on dad to drive you around then cadge rides from everyone else, (including me) so..?!

he never complains but oh my mum is just number one complainer. But thing is marriage is much different nowadays to what it was when they first married (1970s) when there are now limited choices for starting families. Back then mothers got 'milk money'. They had cheaper housing, and education was free, tertiary education was paid for, and jobs were secure.

now there is nothing and housing is way more expensive.

 

[Lanolin]

Well, clearly you don’t live in Canada. I don’t know any dudes that don’t help out with the cooking and shopping and laundry. Along with that they still earn a living and take care of yard maintenance and house repairs. Also they do a good portion of driving to and from activities. In your little corner of the world things must be a bit different.

in nz, we had women suffrage (first country in world for women to have vote...american must hate us for being so radical) but how that came about was that men were constantly getring drunk and beating up their wives so women decided to do something about it campaigned to get the vote and get the law changed. there was this law that you had to be home by 6oclock the bars would close.

what actually happened was the men who'd been working all day would pile into the pub and bars and drink as much as they can before 6oclock it became known as the 6oclock swill. One hour of bingedrinking then made things worse I expect when they did come home.

yep.

today drinking times have changed but there is still this really bad drinking culture in nz.

 

[Lanolin]

in nz, if a man cries its seen as weak, and cooking shopping and laundry are usually womens domains. Men do actually shop they just do it differently from women. Ive found some women will spend ALL day shopping (or several hours) looking for bargains and quality goods but men just want to take 15 minutes in and out tops.

 

[Runningman]

hmm nobody stays home all day both work it seems so why is it on the women who works AS WELL to always cook and clean while the man doesnt do anything?

the reality is women are NOT staying at home all day. They NEED to work as well or there will be no food on the table. maybe its only a certain class of people who have the privelige of staying home all day cos I know nobody on a single income. Even if people are working from home, they are still earning a crust and need to work.

most parents are not relying on one person to bring in everything. Cos it aint enough.

If a family has food, clothing, and shelter every day then they are living in abundance and have everything they need. A family with one person working one job, making a modest middle class salary, can achieve this.

These kinds of jobs don't exist there? If so, this conversation is more about economy, job market, and money management. Where external factors, uncontrollable by any one individual, influence the quality of life.

 

[Lanolin]

If a family has food, clothing, and shelter every day then they are living in abundance and have everything they need. A family with one person working one job, making a modest middle class salary, can achieve this.

These kinds of jobs don't exist there? If so, this conversation is more about economy, job market, and money management. Where external factors, uncontrollable by any one individual, influence the quality of life.

not really, and cost of living is high.

 

[Lanolin]

most parents both are working I dont know many that rely on single income.
some need to apply for child support benefits.

single parents also rely on benefits and need to work at the same time or they live with other folks or take in boarders or perhaps have some kind of rental income.

anyone on minimum wage cannot support a family, its impossible unless you are working all hours of the day. people are pushing for a living wage.

those who do earn a decent salary want to live in a higher priced area then end up spending everything on rates and associated costs and STILL cannot seem to make ends meet. its weird. I had a friend in high school, both parents were doctors, they had three children and still complained about the cost to rear them. they kept saying to my friend how much it cost to raise her and would be better off without children?!

what happens is children end up leaving school early to get a job to support their families/parents.


I guess you live in a rich area where that doesnt happen.

 

[Lanolin]

hmm how many of us are middle class? Im definitely not there doesnt seem to be any middle class around anymore. does it go by how much you earn?

if you live in a working class area, all the people around you are because they are living in working class homes they can afford to live in. people that have their own businesses are because mum and dad BOTH work at it.

every couple Ive known that had family both worked jobs, I think back a few decades ago people COULD take time off work and stay home with family without your household collapsing under your feet. But now, you cant. and many workplaces are not that child friendly even the last couple of jobs I had they were so tight that if you asked for part time work cos you needed to look after family they were like NO.

I guess it depends but its actually not easy to raise a family on one income where I live. and of course, women earn so much less and get paid even less for the same job.

 

[Lanolin]

I cant imagine living on someone elses income and then having to ask them everytime you needed money to buy clothes and food. thats just weird.

supoosedly couples share it but most women dont seem to have autonomy and the one earning the money can withold the finances.

then you get the situation where women start lying about their expensese or squirreling away money from their husbands. I have heard of that.

the other scenario is that men who earn most spend it on expensive boys toys or drugs and leave little for food, clothing or education of their own children. that happens too.

 

[Runningman]

most parents both are working I dont know many that rely on single income.
some need to apply for child support benefits.

single parents also rely on benefits and need to work at the same time or they live with other folks or take in boarders or perhaps have some kind of rental income.

anyone on minimum wage cannot support a family, its impossible unless you are working all hours of the day. people are pushing for a living wage.

those who do earn a decent salary want to live in a higher priced area then end up spending everything on rates and associated costs and STILL cannot seem to make ends meet. its weird. I had a friend in high school, both parents were doctors, they had three children and still complained about the cost to rear them. they kept saying to my friend how much it cost to raise her and would be better off without children?!

what happens is children end up leaving school early to get a job to support their families/parents.


I guess you live in a rich area where that doesnt happen.

I live on a modest middle class income and could support a family in addition to bills. There's nothing rich about my area. It's actually one of the poorest parts of this area with the lowest cost of living to income ratio in the country.