"God loves everyone" - false
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Could I ask my brothers and sisters to faithfully read the whole post and seek to understand, rather than have a knee jerk reaction to the thread title.
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
Rev 6:10
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
KJV
Yes, He will punish those who reject Him in this life, by sending them to suffer eternally in hell!
I think it is wrong to say God doesnt love everyone, if God didnt love everyone then everyone would go to hell, i believe what the bible says and that it says that God is love, and it also says Our God is a consuming fire. When we are in faith, its said we are on fire, that is a very understandable pun. God has to be just but yes God loves everyone, he shows mercy to the merciful and forgives the forgiver, i think he operates in a fair way and he doesnt sent people to hell. Demons would people naturally believe are good send people there and not God.
Could I ask my brothers and sisters to faithfully read the whole post and seek to understand, rather than have a knee jerk reaction to the thread title.
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
Could I ask my brothers and sisters to faithfully read the whole post and seek to understand, rather than have a knee jerk reaction to the thread title.
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
Sorry that I feel I have to say this, but the reaction I've got in other threads has been as a result of a reaction to the thread title from people who haven't sought to understand the thread content
There are many generalised expressions within our faith, that if you take the time to pick apart, just aren't true.
"God loves everyone" is one such false expression.
"Jesus died for everybody's sins" is another one, which is covered in another thread.
John 3:16 is always cited as support for "God loves everyone", but the verse does not say these words.
Below is the full passage that shows the context of the often referenced verse:
John 3:16:
"That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten God. 19 And this is the condemnation that light is come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved"
Notice that the verse does not say "God loves everyone".
It says that whosoever believeth should not perish but have eternal life.
Verse 15 always seems to be left out of the "God loves everyone" message because it is restrictive, and does not suit the purpose of those who push the "God loves everyone" message.
"For God so loved the world" refers to the fact that Jesus was speaking to a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews (John 16:1) who believed that only the Jews were saved to the exclusion of the rest of the world. John 3:18 and 19 clear up any question about the matter.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
At this point there may be a few people who will equate having to keep the commandments of God with preaching a 'salvation by works' doctrine, but this is not the case. Those who say this do so because they have no intention of trying to keep God's commandments, and so they seek to accuse.
John 14:15
"If you love me, keep my commandments".
John 15:14
"You are my friends if you do what I command you".
Ecclesiastes 12:13
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man".
"God loves everyone" doctrine implies that man does not have to be accountable for his/her sins. It teaches that because "God loves everyone", that there is no need to fear him.
"God loves everyone", aka
"God loves and accepts everyone no matter what", "God's attributes are ONLY love and forgiveness for all", "God has no anger and is accepting of all behaviors".
False:
Rev 14:10
Jeremiah 25:15
Jude 14-15
Rev 14:11
Deut 32:22
Isaiah 30:33
2 Thes 1:6
2 Thes 1:8-9
Matthew 10:34-35
Matthew 7:21
Matthew 7:22-23
Matthew 12:30
Matthew 12:34-35
Matthew 12: 36-37
Matthew 15:8-9
Matthew 23:14
Matthew 23:15
Matthew 23:29-33
Mark 9:42-48
Mark 16:16
Luke 13:23-28
Luke 16:19-31
Luke 18:6-8
John 8:44
John 17:9
Rev 21:8
Isaiah 13:9
Isaiah 66:24
Psalms 7:11
Romans 1:18
1 Thes 5:3
2 Peter 2:9-10
Rev 6:10
Rev 6:15-17
Rev 20:12-15
Psalms 55:15
I could continue quoting scripture in order to reveal the true nature of God, which flies in the face of the "God loves everyone" doctrine, but I think 36 verses will suffice for now
Once again another verse of Scripture used, incorrectly and out of context, which does not prove your point.
(Rom 5:8) But God commends his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Within the context, we must ask:
1) To whom was Paul writing? No to all mankind but to believers. In this case, the Saints who were in Rome.
2) Then the "us" are the believers in Rome. The message then has applications to all other believers, in all the various assemblies.
3) The "we" are the same people as are the "us".
4) You cannot apply this to all of humanity, since all of humanity was not being written to, in this particular context. There are many verses of Scripture that are to all mankind but this is not one of them.
If you do not understand hermenuetics and do not keep verses within intended contexts, you cannot truly understand the message.
I say this with all humility, in the hopes of being helpful, to those who truly wish to learn. No man has arrived, when it comes to knowledge and we should all strive to be ever learning.
I certainly believe, Scripture clearly teaches that God does not love everyone.
If He does, as some of you say, then please give a proper explanation for the following verses and precepts:
From the Old and New Testament, in regards to Esau:
(Jer 49:10) But I have made Esau bare, I have uncovered his secret places, and he shall not be able to hide himself: his seed is destroyed, and his brethren, and his neighbors; and he is not.
(Rom 9:13) Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. (The Greek word, εμισησα is used only here and in John 15:25 and Heb 1:9, translated into the English word hate.)
If God, is such a loving God to ALL, then why did he order Israel to kill every man, woman, and child, as they secured the promise land or stood in their way?
(1Sa 15:2) Thus saith Jehovah of hosts, I have marked that which Amalek did to Israel, how he set himself against him in the way,
(1Sa 15:3) Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
You must be able to give answer or you must ignore a large part of Holy Scripture.
Quite the opposite. The Bible clearly teaches that it is because God loves "the world" -- the human race -- that He sent His only begotten Son into the world to save the world (John 2:16,17). Even Calvin could not change the meaning of kosmos in these two verses.
However, by your above allegation, you have made both God and Christ liars. And it is the Father of Lies -- Satan -- who seeks to do that through human beings.
What you need to now do is repent immediately of your false and blasphemous ideas, and get back to Gospel truth. And Gospel truth is found in both Testaments: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 45:22)
However, by your above allegation, you have made both God and Christ liars. And it is the Father of Lies -- Satan -- who seeks to do that through human beings.
What you need to now do is repent immediately of your false and blasphemous ideas, and get back to Gospel truth. And Gospel truth is found in both Testaments: Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. (Isa 45:22)
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Hello Awelight, may please refer to my responses below regarding your comments:
Your comment that the book of Romans does not apply to mankind
In applying hermeneutics, you need to look at the verses and chapters before and after the verse.
Also when you look at Romans 5:8 you will notice the following:
The text states that before the Romans were believers (while they were still sinners), God demonstrated his love towards them. In other words, God did not wait for them to be believers or change their sinful and wicked ways before He showed His love to them. Christ died for humanity before many people in the world knew who He was. God did not wait for everyone to first believe that Christ is the Son of God before demonstrating His love to the whole world. God is not a respecter of persons and if He demonstrated his love to the Romans while they were sinners, it means that He demonstrated his love to everyone (all mankind) before they believed.
The reason why you believe that the verse was taken out of context is because you did not apply hermeneutics properly by reading the chapters and verses before and after Romans 5:8. You assumed that because it says Romans, that it only applied to the Roman people, which is not the case.
Your comment regarding Romans 9:13
In order to understand this verse, you must start to read from Romans 9:1.
When you look at the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants.
For example, God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.”
The chapter explains that God choosing Israel (Who was called Jacob) was decided before Jacob and Esau were born. It was not dependent on their actions.
If you read Genesis, both Jacob and Esau committed sins, but God chose Jacob. So if God was a god of hate, he should have hated both of them since they were both were sinners. Therefore Romans 9:13 has got nothing to do with feelings of hatred towards Esau but explaining the principle that who God chooses is not dependent on their actions.
Your comment regarding Jeremiah 49:10
The descendants/seed of Esau were the Edomites. In Numbers 20:14-21, Edom had sought to block Israel's first entrance into the Promised Land. You can read 1 Samuel 14:47), 1 Kings 11:14-22, 2 Chronicles 20:1-23 and 2 Kings 8:21 showing the Edomites’ hatred, hardheartedness, cruelty, and arrogance towards the Israelites.
Because of the continuing antagonism towards Israel, God proclaimed through his prophets that it will be destroyed.
Your comment regarding 1 Samuel 15:2 to 3
God asking King Saul to kill the people of Amalek was to fulfill the promise that He made in Deuteronomy 25: 19.
Amalek had attacked the Israelites without any provocation when they were coming out of Egypt.
Although God is love, He is also a God of justice (Psalm 89:14). Since Amalak tried to kill the whole of Israel starting with the weakest (which was the lame, the elderly, women, and children), it is fair and just that Israel should destroy all of them as much as it was their intention to destroy all of Israel.
Please read Deuteronomy 25:17-19 as well as Exodus 17:8-16
Overall
God being just, does not mean He does not have love.
The punishment of the wicked by Him is not a sign that He hates them. There is a consequence for every action. For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap (Galatians 6:7).
Your comment that the book of Romans does not apply to mankind
In applying hermeneutics, you need to look at the verses and chapters before and after the verse.
- If you read Romans chapter 1 to chapter 4, it is about the unrighteousness of men (both the Jews and Gentiles) and that righteousness can only be received through faith and Abraham is used as an example.
- Romans 3:23 states “for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Now, is it only the Romans that have sinned, or has the whole of humanity sinned?
- Chapter 5 focusses on justification by faith and verse 6 states that Christ died for the ungodly. Now did Christ only die for the Romans only? Or did He die for the whole of mankind?
- So before you get to Romans 5:8, the chapters are clearly speaking about all mankind and not the Romans only. Unless you believe it is only the Romans that are justified by faith and that Christ only died for them!
- When you read further in Romans 8:12, it states that it is because of Adams’ disobedience that sin entered into the world. Now is Adam the father of the Romans only or of the whole of mankind?
Also when you look at Romans 5:8 you will notice the following:
The text states that before the Romans were believers (while they were still sinners), God demonstrated his love towards them. In other words, God did not wait for them to be believers or change their sinful and wicked ways before He showed His love to them. Christ died for humanity before many people in the world knew who He was. God did not wait for everyone to first believe that Christ is the Son of God before demonstrating His love to the whole world. God is not a respecter of persons and if He demonstrated his love to the Romans while they were sinners, it means that He demonstrated his love to everyone (all mankind) before they believed.
The reason why you believe that the verse was taken out of context is because you did not apply hermeneutics properly by reading the chapters and verses before and after Romans 5:8. You assumed that because it says Romans, that it only applied to the Roman people, which is not the case.
Your comment regarding Romans 9:13
In order to understand this verse, you must start to read from Romans 9:1.
When you look at the context, God loving Jacob and hating Esau has nothing to do with the human emotions of love and hate. It has everything to do with God choosing one man and his descendants and rejecting another man and his descendants.
For example, God chose Abraham out of all the men in the world. The Bible very well could say, “Abraham I loved, and every other man I hated.” God chose Abraham’s son Isaac instead of Abraham’s son Ishmael. The Bible very well could say, “Isaac I loved, and Ishmael I hated.”
The chapter explains that God choosing Israel (Who was called Jacob) was decided before Jacob and Esau were born. It was not dependent on their actions.
If you read Genesis, both Jacob and Esau committed sins, but God chose Jacob. So if God was a god of hate, he should have hated both of them since they were both were sinners. Therefore Romans 9:13 has got nothing to do with feelings of hatred towards Esau but explaining the principle that who God chooses is not dependent on their actions.
Your comment regarding Jeremiah 49:10
The descendants/seed of Esau were the Edomites. In Numbers 20:14-21, Edom had sought to block Israel's first entrance into the Promised Land. You can read 1 Samuel 14:47), 1 Kings 11:14-22, 2 Chronicles 20:1-23 and 2 Kings 8:21 showing the Edomites’ hatred, hardheartedness, cruelty, and arrogance towards the Israelites.
Because of the continuing antagonism towards Israel, God proclaimed through his prophets that it will be destroyed.
Your comment regarding 1 Samuel 15:2 to 3
God asking King Saul to kill the people of Amalek was to fulfill the promise that He made in Deuteronomy 25: 19.
Amalek had attacked the Israelites without any provocation when they were coming out of Egypt.
Although God is love, He is also a God of justice (Psalm 89:14). Since Amalak tried to kill the whole of Israel starting with the weakest (which was the lame, the elderly, women, and children), it is fair and just that Israel should destroy all of them as much as it was their intention to destroy all of Israel.
Please read Deuteronomy 25:17-19 as well as Exodus 17:8-16
Overall
God being just, does not mean He does not have love.
The punishment of the wicked by Him is not a sign that He hates them. There is a consequence for every action. For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap (Galatians 6:7).
[QUOTE="
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
[/QUOTE]
God is truth, and scripture tells us God loves us not based on what we do. God hates sin, God hates the sin we do but He does not hate us.
"God loves everyone" is straight from the mind of satan and the ministers that serve him. In essence it teaches that man can lead a sinful life, violate the commandments of God daily, not fear him and still go to heaven.
[/QUOTE]God is truth, and scripture tells us God loves us not based on what we do. God hates sin, God hates the sin we do but He does not hate us.
My comments were clearly addressing only one part of Romans:
(Rom 5:8) But God commends his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Within the context, we must ask:
1) To whom was Paul writing? No to all mankind but to believers. In this case, the Saints who were in Rome. (Do you deny that he was writing to believers in Rome? Rom 1:7 to all that are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. )
2) Then the "us" are the believers in Rome. The message then has applications to all other believers, in all the various assemblies. (This truth still stands)
3) The "we" are the same people as are the "us". (This truth still stands)
4) You cannot apply this to all of humanity, since all of humanity was not being written to, in this particular context. There are many verses of Scripture that are to all mankind but this is not one of them. (This truth still stands)
If you do not understand hermenuetics and do not keep verses within intended contexts, you cannot truly understand the message.
I say this with all humility, in the hopes of being helpful, to those who truly wish to learn. No man has arrived, when it comes to knowledge and we should all strive to be ever learning.
I do appreciate your responding and giving your explanations to the following: Romans 9:13 and Jeremiah 49:10.
I do not disagree with some of the points you were making, However, you are really going out of your way to deny that God has a Holy Hatred. His hatred is indeed not like ours, it is a perfect hatred. We as mortal, sinful, beings, cannot hope to understand what Holy anger, hatred and vengeance really are. We do good to even scratch the surface of what Holiness really is. However, you cannot say that God did these things because He loved them. This eliminates any distinction between His outpouring of emotions for the saved and the unsaved. Yes He has done to the enemies what His Holy Justice requires but you cannot say that He loves those whom He intends to destroy. This would make God conflicted.
You summarized by saying:
Overall
God being just, does not mean He does not have love. (I never claimed He didn't.... So where did you get this?)
The punishment of the wicked by Him is not a sign that He hates them. (Oh, so now you would have God killing and punishing those He loves?) There is a consequence for every action. For whatever a man sows, that he will also reap (Galatians 6:7) Agree, that man will reap what he sows. God's Holy Justice must be satisfied.
Then you said I should not use the precept that God hates. Why would I repent for a term, that God Himself has used. The word hate is used in Scripture, King James Version, 87 times, in 85 verses, either by God or by man. The word hated is used 60 times in 56 verses, either by God or man.
You do realize, that you keep using the word "loves", in John 3:16, You said: "The Bible clearly teaches that it is because God loves "the world" -- the human race -- that He sent His only begotten Son into the world to save the world (John 2:16,17).", which is in the wrong tense. John 3:16, does not teach that God "LOVES" the world. The greek word ηγαπησεν, is not in the present tense, "loves" in English, which implies the present tense. The tense here in the Greek, is an Aorist.Active.Indicative verb. This means that this verbs action was in the past, and should be translated into the English word, "LOVED". as it is in the Textus Receptus, the Nestle Text, (both Greek) and the KJV, NASB (both English).
Check it out for yourself, ηγαπησεν is not a present tense verb form. Therefore, God's Love for the world, is looking at a past action. What past action is not given herein.
And bye the way, I don't care what Calvin said, He was just a man.
Check it out for yourself, ηγαπησεν is not a present tense verb form. Therefore, God's Love for the world, is looking at a past action. What past action is not given herein.
And bye the way, I don't care what Calvin said, He was just a man.