Have you ever encountered this

[Lion222]

I have come across this expectation a number of times.
it goes something like this, If a husband obeys God in being a husband
it will somehow cause a wife to obey God in being a wife.

But how does the obedience of one person to God have anything to do with the disobedience of another.

I know it says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church.
But it seems as if the thinking is that if your love is to be judged acceptable not by God but by your wife then she will obey God...

I see nothing of the sort in the bible.


it seems absurd, you might as well say if a wife is doing her part in obeying God he husband will just automatically do his and obey God...
Don't you think you obey God because you love God, period. "If you love me you will keep my commandments" - right?

If you have both made a promise to mutually submit yourself to obey God and his way of doing marriage then each one is responsible to God on their own regardless of the other. Not that it doesn't make things easier or harder to live with but that never justifies abandoning your covenant to God, right?

I don't mean to say this apply to those who have no biblical marriage covenant to obey Gods word and do things his way.
I am sure a couple could choose to adopt that later in a marriage if they wanted go Gods way and be blessed in it.

I would think if both are doing their part then the success of the relationship is in God hands.
If ether refuses their part then the failure of the relationship is on them, they should not expect things to get any better until they give themselves to doing it Gods way?

Does anyone know where this comes from and why it seems to be so prevalent in the Church

 

[1christian1]

I have come across this expectation a number of times.
it goes something like this, If a husband obeys God in being a husband
it will somehow cause a wife to obey God in being a wife.

But how does the obedience of one person to God have anything to do with the disobedience of another.

I know it says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church.
But it seems as if the thinking is that if your love is to be judged acceptable not by God but by your wife then she will obey God...

I see nothing of the sort in the bible.


it seems absurd, you might as well say if a wife is doing her part in obeying God he husband will just automatically do his and obey God...
Don't you think you obey God because you love God, period. "If you love me you will keep my commandments" - right?

If you have both made a promise to mutually submit yourself to obey God and his way of doing marriage then each one is responsible to God on their own regardless of the other. Not that it doesn't make things easier or harder to live with but that never justifies abandoning your covenant to God, right?

I don't mean to say this apply to those who have no biblical marriage covenant to obey Gods word and do things his way.
I am sure a couple could choose to adopt that later in a marriage if they wanted go Gods way and be blessed in it.

I would think if both are doing their part then the success of the relationship is in God hands.
If ether refuses their part then the failure of the relationship is on them, they should not expect things to get any better until they give themselves to doing it Gods way?

Does anyone know where this comes from and why it seems to be so prevalent in the Church

Is'nt all of this that you are talking about covered when you take your vows of marriage...

 

[Lion222]

Is'nt all of this that you are talking about covered when you take your vows of marriage...

NO.
If you dont obey God in your covenant it is from the sinfulness of your own heart. It is not the fault of your mate. Right?

 

[1christian1]

NO.
If you dont obey God in your covenant it is from the sinfulness of your own heart. It is not the fault of your mate. Right?

100% not...

 

[GaryA]

I believe the suggested idea you are talking about comes from verses of scripture such as :

1 Peter 3:

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

 

[Dino246]

I doubt anyone has studied this statistically, but it is reasonable to think that a godly spouse's attitude and actions are more likely to result in the godly behaviour of the other spouse. However, it certainly isn't guaranteed, as a great many people can attest.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

But how does the obedience of one person to God have anything to do with the disobedience of another.

The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is working (Rom. 8:2). If it is not working, ALL THINGS die spiritually.

 

[Lion222]

I believe the suggested idea you are talking about comes from verses of scripture such as :

1 Peter 3:

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Well that is how we are to obey God in treating one another.
Yes It is a prescription for a good testimony as a true christian who keeps Gods word and does it his way and is willing to suffer in doing what is right. I think the one who does will be bless in some way.

This is the lie i guess I am trying to point to...
If you do it right or if the man dose it right first then the woman will do her part somehow "naturally"
AS IF her sinful heart has nothing to do with it.


I have come to believe the success in a marriage is 99% good choice
plus 200% mutual submission to God to obey his commands regarding marriage.

As long as you are not doing your part in obeying Gods commands the fault in any relationship is on you first.
As long as you are not doing your part in obeying Gods commands the fault in any relationship is on you first.
If you are doing your part, you will be putting your faith in God rather then judging the obedience of the other.

Unless of course there is no obedience at all, a straight up denial of God and of the covenant of a biblical marriage.
But then I don't think most marriages are not built on the biblical marriage covenant and mutual submission to God so does this all really apply to them? I guess they could change that if they wanted Gods blessings in it.

Anyway, my two cents:
If you don't want to be held at fault by God for the destruction of your marriage, focus on trusting and obey him in doing your part.
If you don't want to suffer a lot, cause you will have to suffer it is just what Christians do when obeying God in a sinful world, but if you don't want truckloads of grief and suffering make sure your future mate is someone you have the testimony of the Spirit about. Someone who puts obeying God first before wanting you.

 

[Lion222]

I doubt anyone has studied this statistically, but it is reasonable to think that a godly spouse's attitude and actions are more likely to result in the godly behaviour of the other spouse. However, it certainly isn't guaranteed, as a great many people can attest.

It that not like saying one persons sin or lack of sin results in the sin or lack of sin of another.
My experience is the opposite that doing the right thing exposed the wrong thing in other peoples hearts and to my occasional joy the right heart in someone else.

 

[lenna]

Does anyone know where this comes from and why it seems to be so prevalent in the Church

Personally, I think it may in part come from the LACK of proper counselling in so many churches. Sounds good, right? But does it work? A pastor is not automatically a counsellor and certainly more often than not, has no credentials to be one.

There is no 'proven' formula for adjusting someone else's behavior and I agree the Bible does not say what so many would express as cure all for a bad marriage or a difficult one.

My experience is the opposite that doing the right thing exposed the wrong thing in other peoples hearts and to my occasional joy the right heart in someone else.

Ditto

 

[Lion222]

I believe the suggested idea you are talking about comes from verses of scripture such as :

1 Peter 3:

1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; 2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Thanks,
I don't see it there but I guess some people might have made it into that.
What I see there is to understanding and gracious with their weakness and value them. Not to take on the fault of the sin in their hearts in their disobedience to God as your fault..

Just the opposite part of the job, to present them perfected, the work of washing them clean with the water (spirit) of the word of God speaking to the need in there hearts for who God is. But that is something they would have to submit to in order to benefit from and without going there with your faith in God first you will never get there.

 

[Lion222]

Personally, I think it may in part come from the LACK of proper counselling in so many churches. Sounds good, right? But does it work?

I agree that bad counselling is deferential propagating the lie.
Could also be a cultural thing a general lack of ownership of ones own action.

 

[lenna]

I agree that bad counselling is deferential propagating the lie.
Could also be a cultural thing a general lack of ownership of ones own action.

yes, that and the 'blame game'

The Bible has many warnings about who we associate with, but guilt by association is not included. You know, it can be hard work to reform yourself.

 

[Lion222]

yes, that and the 'blame game'

The Bible has many warnings about who we associate with, but guilt by association is not included. You know, it can be hard work to reform yourself.

"Broken things don't fix themselves"

 

[Dino246]

Personally, I think it may in part come from the LACK of proper counselling in so many churches. Sounds good, right? But does it work? A pastor is not automatically a counsellor and certainly more often than not, has no credentials to be one.

That's true, and unfortunate. Pastoral positions should either require applicants to be trained in at least the basics of biblical counseling (and preferably, extensively trained), or not require counseling as part of the job. Untrained counselors often do more damage, and the expectation on the pastor (or arrogance) blinds people to the damage until after it's done.

My church is blessed to have both a wise pastor and a trained/experienced counselor in the congregation. The pastor sends people to the counselor when their issues are beyond his capacity. Even that doesn't preclude marital breakdowns though.

 

[Blain]

I have come across this expectation a number of times.
it goes something like this, If a husband obeys God in being a husband
it will somehow cause a wife to obey God in being a wife.

But how does the obedience of one person to God have anything to do with the disobedience of another.

I know it says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church.
But it seems as if the thinking is that if your love is to be judged acceptable not by God but by your wife then she will obey God...

I see nothing of the sort in the bible.


it seems absurd, you might as well say if a wife is doing her part in obeying God he husband will just automatically do his and obey God...
Don't you think you obey God because you love God, period. "If you love me you will keep my commandments" - right?

If you have both made a promise to mutually submit yourself to obey God and his way of doing marriage then each one is responsible to God on their own regardless of the other. Not that it doesn't make things easier or harder to live with but that never justifies abandoning your covenant to God, right?

I don't mean to say this apply to those who have no biblical marriage covenant to obey Gods word and do things his way.
I am sure a couple could choose to adopt that later in a marriage if they wanted go Gods way and be blessed in it.

I would think if both are doing their part then the success of the relationship is in God hands.
If ether refuses their part then the failure of the relationship is on them, they should not expect things to get any better until they give themselves to doing it Gods way?

Does anyone know where this comes from and why it seems to be so prevalent in the Church

I don't understand how people think like this honestly, I mean a parent can be the most loving and supportive parent but the child can still turn out to be a addicted drug user.

If anything whether it is the husband or the wife it doesn't stand to reason that the obedience of one would make the other that way.

A husband can be a devoted Christian and the wife can not be one or at least be luke warm, one persons devotion does not equal the others however I think iit also could work in the same way both God and the enemy work-influence.
If say the wife sees how her husband is always so strong even in such hard times or sees how he is just naturally more happy and at peace while she struggles with her mental stress and negative emopptions and is not happy in the way he is happy his seems to be a different kind of happiness.

This I think is the more appropriate train of thought.

 

[lenna]

"Broken things don't fix themselves"

They have to know they are broken and being sad or depressed does not automatically create the impression one is broken

I could get pretty deep into psychology here with scriptural applications then again I am not a rock skipping over the water and trite expression does not serve me well

God will go as deep as we are and have leftovers

 

[lenna]

That's true, and unfortunate. Pastoral positions should either require applicants to be trained in at least the basics of biblical counseling (and preferably, extensively trained), or not require counseling as part of the job. Untrained counselors often do more damage, and the expectation on the pastor (or arrogance) blinds people to the damage until after it's done.

My church is blessed to have both a wise pastor and a trained/experienced counselor in the congregation. The pastor sends people to the counselor when their issues are beyond his capacity. Even that doesn't preclude marital breakdowns though.

Yes.

And your church is blessed then.

 

[Lion222]

I don't understand how people think like this honestly, I mean a parent can be the most loving and supportive parent but the child can still turn out to be a addicted drug user.

If anything whether it is the husband or the wife it doesn't stand to reason that the obedience of one would make the other that way.

A husband can be a devoted Christian and the wife can not be one or at least be luke warm, one persons devotion does not equal the others however I think iit also could work in the same way both God and the enemy work-influence.
If say the wife sees how her husband is always so strong even in such hard times or sees how he is just naturally more happy and at peace while she struggles with her mental stress and negative emopptions and is not happy in the way he is happy his seems to be a different kind of happiness.

This I think is the more appropriate train of thought.

Lots of different situations.
hard to be happy when your mate is tearing you down.
Bad company corrupts.. pulls at the God intended direction of your life.
He is in the business of taking what was meant for evil against you and turning it into something good.
i guess that is one place we can put our faith in his character and power and wisdom.

 

[Blain]

Lots of different situations.
hard to be happy when your mate is tearing you down.
Bad company corrupts.. pulls at the God intended direction of your life.
He is in the business of taking what was meant for evil against you and turning it into something good.
i guess that is one place we can put our faith in his character and power and wisdom.

I suppose every situation is different, if it were me and my spouce was like that the only thing I would know to do is pray and lead by example. The interesting thing about influence is that it slowly draws people to God, when they see the difference in you they become curious when they are curious you have an open door to lead them to god it is a simple and well spoken thing we are taught early in life in sunday school but it still is greatly effective.