The Purpose of Speaking in Tongues

[notuptome]

Let's be very accurate here... I did NOT use the word "saved". So you are arguing against something that wasn't even said.

I did say there is a difference between "belief" and "receiving the Holy Ghost". That difference is clearly documented in the book of Acts.

Without the ability or willingness to acknowledge that there can be a separation between "belief" and "receiving the Holy Ghost", it is unlikely you would be able or willing to acknowledge how to recognize the presence of one in the absence of the other.

That lack of ability and/or willingness keeps you from knowing when to encourage believers to "wait for the promise of the Father".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

No of course not. You create an artificial distinction where none exists. The moment one believes in Jesus as Savior they are saved and the Holy Spirit overwhelms them making them a new child of God.

You misinterpret Acts not having a correct knowledge of what those disciples of John knew as opposed to what they needed to know concerning Jesus. The same is true today. Many have a talking knowledge of Christ but lack a real possession of Christ as Savior. These are those who have never submitted themselves to Christ as their only hope of salvation. They continue to hold fast to other things for their salvation.

One must have a John 16:8-11 experience with the Holy Spirit. Only then can they truly repent and be saved. It has been well said that until you smell the smoke of eternal condemnation you will resist the gospel and never breathe the purity of the air in heaven.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[wolfwint]

VERY faulty reasoning here and this is always your main criticism. There are documented cases of speaking in tongues but you have refused to acknowledge them. They have been presented in this very forum a good number of times and even in response to you.

As far as your faulty reasoning, what I refer to is the fact God holds back MANY things which are documented in scripture so it would be HIS prerogative to hold back whatever He chooses as His record has shown.

God let the Israelites be slaves for over 400 years in Egypt because it was not time for their release. The sin of the nations around the land to which God was sending them, was not 'complete' or had not reached the point where God stepped in. I don't pretend to understand all of that, but we have the record in the Bible.

When the fullness of time had come, God sent His Son into the world and so on. Why did God hold back? and other examples.

When someone approaches what they question without prejudice, they may very well learn something. However, when someone, certainly you in this case, desires a negative outcome for personal reasons, they are simply going to gather information they see as protecting their own little world.

You have been answered multiple of multiple times in this forum and I know this because I have been a member for some years now even though my profile states otherwise. I left and came back. I would just warn anyone who is not familiar with your song and dance routine they are wasting their time because you state nothing new and have no intentions of learning anything but desire to shut others down with what you assume is your superior knowledge.

What you deem knowledge is actually an attitude. Not going to respond to your rinse and repeat but have posted the above for the benefit of anyone who believe you are sincere and mistakenly tries to show you otherwise.

How then is it that people who have the same Holy Spirit cant see, that this teaching is from God? Do you not Think if we all have the same Spirit, then we would accknowledge the same what is in concern of the Holy Spirit?
And would not then all born again Christians, indepent of their denominations get the same gifts. Without asking and begging for?
It may be that God is working also throug speaking in tongues for to save people.
But in any time of the history after the apostolic time speaking in tongues disapeared. When the montanism startet in
150 ore in 160. The believers thaught that the apostolic time is back with all the gifts.
In this time the most churches were wordly and had obvious not the gifts. Thats why the cult around montanus and his prophesess became such a Run. And even Tertullian later joined this cult.
It is to expect that bornagain believers get the gifts according the Holy Spirit it gives till today.
But this teaching we found since 1900 is different to what the bible teaches about the Holy Spirit. Even the Holinessmovement was not correct in his teachings. Beeing baptised with the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with a perfect livestile. So they later declared this baptising with the Holy Spirit as empowerment for the ministrie. Means before this teaching, all the missionaries and servants of the Lord did their ministrie without this empowerment.
If you take f.e. australia. Janet Lancaster 1908 was the First Person who received the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. So all Christians before her in australia speaking not in tongues and where also not empowered with the Holy Spirit. According pentecostal/ charismatic doctrine.

 

[Scribe]

How then is it that people who have the same Holy Spirit cant see, that this teaching is from God? Do you not Think if we all have the same Spirit, then we would accknowledge the same what is in concern of the Holy Spirit?
And would not then all born again Christians, indepent of their denominations get the same gifts. Without asking and begging for?
It may be that God is working also throug speaking in tongues for to save people.
But in any time of the history after the apostolic time speaking in tongues disapeared. When the montanism startet in
150 ore in 160. The believers thaught that the apostolic time is back with all the gifts.
In this time the most churches were wordly and had obvious not the gifts. Thats why the cult around montanus and his prophesess became such a Run. And even Tertullian later joined this cult.
It is to expect that bornagain believers get the gifts according the Holy Spirit it gives till today.
But this teaching we found since 1900 is different to what the bible teaches about the Holy Spirit. Even the Holinessmovement was not correct in his teachings. Beeing baptised with the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with a perfect livestile. So they later declared this baptising with the Holy Spirit as empowerment for the ministrie. Means before this teaching, all the missionaries and servants of the Lord did their ministrie without this empowerment.
If you take f.e. australia. Janet Lancaster 1908 was the First Person who received the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues. So all Christians before her in australia speaking not in tongues and where also not empowered with the Holy Spirit. According pentecostal/ charismatic doctrine.

Of course they were empowered. But if they did not operate in the gifts of the Spirit they did not experience the purpose and benefit of those gifts. That does not mean that they were not empowered by the Spirit in their individual ministry. People who ask receive and people who don't get along without these gifts but they do not know what they are missing. It is not a matter of being saved, or not having the Spirit it is a matter of stepping into MORE. God has MORE if you want it.
Also, the reason people have the same Spirit but still disagree as to interpretations of scriptures is almost always due to bad hermeneutics on someones part.

 

[lenna]

Also, the reason people have the same Spirit but still disagree as to interpretations of scriptures is almost always due to bad hermeneutics on someones part.

Testimony to the licence people take with scripture, using one verse to create doctrine, taking verses out of context, choosing to ignore portions of scripture that they do not already affirm or that fit into their personal hobby horse doctrines. We see this again and again and again when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit and tongues in particular.

Of course the misuse of the gifts for personal gain or the misuse of tongues does nothing to add to credible affirmation. However, the Bible is clear on the doctrine and I personally have never seen or heard any credible, biblical response, from any detractor that would indicate tongues are buried in Acts and meant to stay there.

It is always the same cast of characters, creating the same posts, that jump at every opportunity to cast doubt on scripture, making assumptions and creating those bad hermeneutics such as I Corinthians 13:10 to state tongues have passed away, who show up to flog their favorite topic, "tongues have ceased" or, if they are continuing, it is no longer God but a demon doing it.

But note that wolf there thinks he has the gift of discerning of spirits.

 

[notuptome]

Of course they were empowered. But if they did not operate in the gifts of the Spirit they did not experience the purpose and benefit of those gifts. That does not mean that they were not empowered by the Spirit in their individual ministry. People who ask receive and people who don't get along without these gifts but they do not know what they are missing. It is not a matter of being saved, or not having the Spirit it is a matter of stepping into MORE. God has MORE if you want it.
Also, the reason people have the same Spirit but still disagree as to interpretations of scriptures is almost always due to bad hermeneutics on someones part.

You are not the one who decides how and when you will be empowered to minister in the Holy Spirit. You cannot step unless God by grace moves your foot.

Bad hermeneutics on some ones part yep. All have an equal measure of grace. God knows who has the capacity to minister without being lifted up and believing they are above others who do not act like they act.

Submission and obedience to Gods word is how we grow to be used of God. God is building the church not men. Jesus did not tell Peter that Peter would build the church but that God, Jesus, would build the church.

Most of the claims of experiencing the purpose and benefits of the gifts as you put it is hyperbole and self exultation. God chooses empty vessels for His service.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[lenna]

God chooses empty vessels for His service.

Inaccurate. God chooses those who are chosen by Him for His purposes and they are not empty. The Bible states we are to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit, which of course you do not acknowledge.

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit Ephesians 5:18

The Greek present imperative tense is used here and that indicates a continuous filling and not a one time event.

52 And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit. Acts 13:52

The Greek there meaning continually filled, again not a one time event.

So you are correct. It is not up to you. It is, however up to God and despite your best efforts He continues to bless with the infilling of His Spirit and through His Spirit He gives gifts, spiritual gifts, for the benefit of the body of Christ and because He desires for us to be empowered to be His witnesses of the life of Christ within us.

I do not give credence to whatever pompous reply you dream up. I have probably read them all over time spent here in the last several years including your delusion that demons operate through those who speak in tongues. Not all have the same experience and there are various gifts even within the gift of tongues but probably no use in pointing that out to you.

In fact, I am going to put you on ignore so as not to give myself the impossible task of having an actual exchange of any value with you.

 

[Scribe]

You are not the one who decides how and when you will be empowered to minister in the Holy Spirit. You cannot step unless God by grace moves your foot.

Bad hermeneutics on some ones part yep. All have an equal measure of grace. God knows who has the capacity to minister without being lifted up and believing they are above others who do not act like they act.

Submission and obedience to Gods word is how we grow to be used of God. God is building the church not men. Jesus did not tell Peter that Peter would build the church but that God, Jesus, would build the church.

Most of the claims of experiencing the purpose and benefits of the gifts as you put it is hyperbole and self exultation. God chooses empty vessels for His service.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

One thing I hope we can all agree with is that God has revealed his intention to pour his Spirit out upon his people and we certainly all want that.
I love this passage in Isaiah 44
3For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
4And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.
5One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
This is a prophecy about Israel coming out of Babylon and the restoration of Jerusalem but it is even MORE about the salvation of Jesus Christ, (I know this because Paul quotes many of these verses from this same context as being about the salvation of Jesus)

If you are feeling like dry ground right now God wants to pout His Spirit upon you. This is a promise to us today as well.

 

[notuptome]

Inaccurate. God chooses those who are chosen by Him for His purposes and they are not empty. The Bible states we are to be continually filled with the Holy Spirit, which of course you do not acknowledge.

18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit Ephesians 5:18

The Greek present imperative tense is used here and that indicates a continuous filling and not a one time event.

52 And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit. Acts 13:52

The Greek there meaning continually filled, again not a one time event.

So you are correct. It is not up to you. It is, however up to God and despite your best efforts He continues to bless with the infilling of His Spirit and through His Spirit He gives gifts, spiritual gifts, for the benefit of the body of Christ and because He desires for us to be empowered to be His witnesses of the life of Christ within us.

I do not give credence to whatever pompous reply you dream up. I have probably read them all over time spent here in the last several years including your delusion that demons operate through those who speak in tongues. Not all have the same experience and there are various gifts even within the gift of tongues but probably no use in pointing that out to you.

In fact, I am going to put you on ignore so as not to give myself the impossible task of having an actual exchange of any value with you.

You must be emptied of self to be filled by God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[CS1]

You are not the one who decides how and when you will be empowered to minister in the Holy Spirit. You cannot step unless God by grace moves your foot.

Bad hermeneutics on some ones part yep. All have an equal measure of grace. God knows who has the capacity to minister without being lifted up and believing they are above others who do not act like they act.

Submission and obedience to Gods word is how we grow to be used of God. God is building the church not men. Jesus did not tell Peter that Peter would build the church but that God, Jesus, would build the church.

Most of the claims of experiencing the purpose and benefits of the gifts as you put it is hyperbole and self exultation. God chooses empty vessels for His service.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

what a blatant removal of the very words of Jesus In Luke 24:49

I am going to send you what my Father has promised, but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

Jesus said this to those who already saved. Jesus had rose from the Dead they confessed HIM all Lord and God the Holy Spirit had already open their understanding as Jesus said in John 20:22

And with that, he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

The empowerment that Jesus was talking about was not for salvation it was to be a witness. How dod I know this Because Jesus who rose from the Dead told them in Acts 1:8

" You shall receive power After the Holy Spirit has come upon you".

Nothing you have said is supported Biblically. You are a scoffer.

 

[CS1]

You must be emptied of self to be filled by God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

you do not know what you are talking about

 

[wolfwint]

Testimony to the licence people take with scripture, using one verse to create doctrine, taking verses out of context, choosing to ignore portions of scripture that they do not already affirm or that fit into their personal hobby horse doctrines. We see this again and again and again when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit and tongues in particular.

Of course the misuse of the gifts for personal gain or the misuse of tongues does nothing to add to credible affirmation. However, the Bible is clear on the doctrine and I personally have never seen or heard any credible, biblical response, from any detractor that would indicate tongues are buried in Acts and meant to stay there.

It is always the same cast of characters, creating the same posts, that jump at every opportunity to cast doubt on scripture, making assumptions and creating those bad hermeneutics such as I Corinthians 13:10 to state tongues have passed away, who show up to flog their favorite topic, "tongues have ceased" or, if they are continuing, it is no longer God but a demon doing it.

But note that wolf there thinks he has the gift of discerning of spirits.

Lenna, it was not my Idea and I did not ask for, so you must not blame me for this gift. How else I should call it?

It is what I expierienced in my life as Christian. And I wonder that people accepting every teaching as long the name of Jesus is mentioned.

You quotet 1. Cor. 13,10 . These vers is not speaking from speaking in tongues.
I would say that there is no answer given when speaking in tongues will ceases. (Vers 8)
Vers 8 only will show the different between love and the mentioned gifts.
And Vers 10 is talking from knowledge and prophecie (Vers 9)

Go ahead with that what you believe.
I would not have such a Problem if speaking in tongues would be handeld and taught like Paul did. But penetecostal/charismatic teaching combined it to an separate baptism with the Holy Spirit and pushes this gift to the most important gift for an Christian. Quit more it divides in 1st and second class believer.
1.Cor.13 Shows what is the greatest and everlasting gift.

Well, I have said more then enough.
The Lord may bless you.

 

[Guojing]

what a blatant removal of the very words of Jesus In Luke 24:49

I am going to send you what my Father has promised, but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”

Jesus said this to those who already saved. Jesus had rose from the Dead they confessed HIM all Lord and God the Holy Spirit had already open their understanding as Jesus said in John 20:22

And with that, he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

The empowerment that Jesus was talking about was not for salvation it was to be a witness. How dod I know this Because Jesus who rose from the Dead told them in Acts 1:8

" You shall receive power After the Holy Spirit has come upon you".

Nothing you have said is supported Biblically. You are a scoffer.

Did Jesus also tell you that you will be sitting on one of the 12 thrones at the end and judging the 12 tribes of Israel? Matt 19:28

 

[lenna]

Did Jesus also tell you that you will be sitting on one of the 12 thrones at the end and judging the 12 tribes of Israel? Matt 19:28

Would you like people here to judge you now, or do you prefer to wait until God reminds you of your insolent bragging?

Did Jesus tell you to write this post or did you do it all on your own? I know what I think. In fact if I wrote what I think about this childish and mean spirited post, I am pretty sure I would either get a warning or an outright ban. But God knows.

 

[lenna]

Lenna, it was not my Idea and I did not ask for, so you must not blame me for this gift. How else I should call it?

It is what I expierienced in my life as Christian. And I wonder that people accepting every teaching as long the name of Jesus is mentioned.

You quotet 1. Cor. 13,10 . These vers is not speaking from speaking in tongues.
I would say that there is no answer given when speaking in tongues will ceases. (Vers 8)
Vers 8 only will show the different between love and the mentioned gifts.
And Vers 10 is talking from knowledge and prophecie (Vers 9)

Go ahead with that what you believe.
I would not have such a Problem if speaking in tongues would be handeld and taught like Paul did. But penetecostal/charismatic teaching combined it to an separate baptism with the Holy Spirit and pushes this gift to the most important gift for an Christian. Quit more it divides in 1st and second class believer.
1.Cor.13 Shows what is the greatest and everlasting gift.

Well, I have said more then enough.
The Lord may bless you.

It is literally impossible for you to have a spiritual gift when you constantly mock one of the gifts, thereby including the giver of the gifts.

Paul said he wished ALL would speak in tongues. Not good enough for you? Then quit talking about Paul because he says things you do not agree with.

No one who fights against the underrated gift of tongues (and sometime abused and misused sadly) has discernment of any kind.

 

[lenna]

You quotet 1. Cor. 13,10 . These vers is not speaking from speaking in tongues.

It does mention tongues actually. Have another read and understand the context in which I quoted it and if you do not understand and would like to understand, just ask and I will answer if no mocking is included.

 

[Guojing]

Would you like people here to judge you now, or do you prefer to wait until God reminds you of your insolent bragging?

Did Jesus tell you to write this post or did you do it all on your own? I know what I think. In fact if I wrote what I think about this childish and mean spirited post, I am pretty sure I would either get a warning or an outright ban. But God knows.

Its one thing to have a personal conviction that what Jesus told the 12 was also directed to all believers. I am fine with that.

But its another to declare that anyone who don't have that same conviction are "scoffers" of the Bible.

If one believes that everything Jesus said to the 12 was also directed to them, then they should not pick and choose. That is a simple logic.

There is nothing childish or mean spirited about my post. If one wants to read it that way, that is up to them and I cannot stop them from doing that.

 

[Dino246]

You must be emptied of self to be filled by God.

Where is that in Scripture?

 

[garee]

AM

Believers pray prophecy. "words"

 

[wolfwint]

It is literally impossible for you to have a spiritual gift when you constantly mock one of the gifts, thereby including the giver of the gifts.

Paul said he wished ALL would speak in tongues. Not good enough for you? Then quit talking about Paul because he says things you do not agree with.

No one who fights against the underrated gift of tongues (and sometime abused and misused sadly) has discernment of any kind.

I do not mock about any gift.
I do not agree with this teaching.
I agree fully with Paul. But then you have to consider all what he said and not only what is supporting your View.
1.Cor. 12, 30 makes clear, that not all believers getting this gift of speaking in tongues.
And even when he say he wish that all will speak in tongues, there is behind that he knows that not all will get this gift.
In 1.Cor.14,5 Paul statet that it is much better to prophecie then to speak in tongues. Why not prophecie is getting so much attention today as speaking in tongues does?
And do you also agree with that what Paul said in vers 34?

 

[lenna]

Its one thing to have a personal conviction that what Jesus told the 12 was also directed to all believers. I am fine with that.

But its another to declare that anyone who don't have that same conviction are "scoffers" of the Bible.

If one believes that everything Jesus said to the 12 was also directed to them, then they should not pick and choose. That is a simple logic.

There is nothing childish or mean spirited about my post. If one wants to read it that way, that is up to them and I cannot stop them from doing that.

oh please