Was Judas saved?
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There are five things (there may be more) I can think of that would indicate and point to Judas not entering the kingdom of God.
1. He was a thief that never asked for mercy as did the thief on the cross (John 12:4-6).
2. Jesus spoke of those He had chosen and one of them was devil (John 6:70,71).
3. He betryed Christ for (30 thirty pieces of silver (Mt 27:3).
4. And then he hanged himself (Mt 27:5)
5. Falling by his transgression he went to his place (Acts 1:25). That term 'his place' was not used for any of the other disciples.
If you put all those together, you can safely come out with a fair judgment that Judas did not know Christ or His plan of salvation. It was never recorded that He recognized Him as the Son of God, nor did he ever recognize the ministry of John the Baptist as being from God as the frontrunner for Christ. He was at best an acquaintance and an opportunist using the popularity and fame of Christ and the disciples for purposes other than to reveal the righteousness of God. Therefore, God sent him to his place.
1. He was a thief that never asked for mercy as did the thief on the cross (John 12:4-6).
2. Jesus spoke of those He had chosen and one of them was devil (John 6:70,71).
3. He betryed Christ for (30 thirty pieces of silver (Mt 27:3).
4. And then he hanged himself (Mt 27:5)
5. Falling by his transgression he went to his place (Acts 1:25). That term 'his place' was not used for any of the other disciples.
If you put all those together, you can safely come out with a fair judgment that Judas did not know Christ or His plan of salvation. It was never recorded that He recognized Him as the Son of God, nor did he ever recognize the ministry of John the Baptist as being from God as the frontrunner for Christ. He was at best an acquaintance and an opportunist using the popularity and fame of Christ and the disciples for purposes other than to reveal the righteousness of God. Therefore, God sent him to his place.
B
Jesus is praying....
John 17: 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
John 6:70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Reads like Judas was lost. It is a comfort knowing that He can lose no one else as promised.
John 3: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Still, Jesus warned of false prophets that can mislead to take our eyes off of Jesus.. even for a moment so that is why believers are still called to heed the commandment in His invitation to avoid false prophets and false spirits:
John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Luke 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
2 Timothy 2:11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.....19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
The result of those led astray is that Jesus will finish His work even in those left behind at the rapture event as God will scourge every child received. ( See Hebrews 12th chapter with 1 Corinthians 3:10-23)
So as the foolish virgins that were at the market getting oil in their lamps.. will be able to shine, alas but too late.. and the prodigal son will return... albeit he lost his first inheritance due to wild living.. but still called a son... but both will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over their loss so that God has to wipe the tears from their eyes of those that came out of the great tribulation.
John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ..... 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.....
So take note of the following verses of how Jesus will keep His promise even for those led astray by following a stranger's voice that shall be left behind at the rapture event.
John 10: 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
So the call is to be watching and ready as we trust Him to keep us from falling and to present us faultless.
Colossians 1:21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
John 17: 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
John 6:70Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? 71He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.
Reads like Judas was lost. It is a comfort knowing that He can lose no one else as promised.
John 3: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Still, Jesus warned of false prophets that can mislead to take our eyes off of Jesus.. even for a moment so that is why believers are still called to heed the commandment in His invitation to avoid false prophets and false spirits:
John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Luke 13:24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
2 Timothy 2:11It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.....19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. 22Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
The result of those led astray is that Jesus will finish His work even in those left behind at the rapture event as God will scourge every child received. ( See Hebrews 12th chapter with 1 Corinthians 3:10-23)
So as the foolish virgins that were at the market getting oil in their lamps.. will be able to shine, alas but too late.. and the prodigal son will return... albeit he lost his first inheritance due to wild living.. but still called a son... but both will be weeping and gnashing of teeth over their loss so that God has to wipe the tears from their eyes of those that came out of the great tribulation.
John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. ..... 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. 7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.....
So take note of the following verses of how Jesus will keep His promise even for those led astray by following a stranger's voice that shall be left behind at the rapture event.
John 10: 14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
So the call is to be watching and ready as we trust Him to keep us from falling and to present us faultless.
Colossians 1:21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Jude 1:24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
K
Certain denominations will tell you "no" because if Judas were a believer then that would mean that Judas had backslidden and it would blow their doctrine out of the water. However, considering that scripture refers to the 12 disciples not only witnessing various miracles but that they also performed various miracles themselves (including casting out devils), this would indicate that Judas was in a believer, at least in the beginning. Of course those denominations will try to convince you that Judas worked those miracles through the power of Satan instead of the power of Christ however, I do not believe that Christ would have allowed such to happen.
B
No, if he had been he would have continued in the truth. He betrayed Christ because he was expecting the Messiah to overthrow Rome, he has a distorted view of the Messiah's job. One salvation is secure, so it's not possible to ''fall away'' to the point of losing ones salvation. So Judas was never saved to begin with.
B
I agree. Since the promise of the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit was when Jesus had ascended to the right hand of God the Father, Judas was never bought... since His blood was shed after Judas had killed himself... and thus was not around for the Day of Pentecost to receive the promise of the permanent indwelling of the Spirit to be filled and thus preserved.
Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
So in that respect, he was lost as prophesied that he would be, and yet he was never saved as His.
Matthew 9:17Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
So in that respect, he was lost as prophesied that he would be, and yet he was never saved as His.
according to the gospel, Jesus told satan to do his work in judas. if this is how it happened, it would make judas blameless , sinc eif one is forced to sin , it is not a sin (ie if a married woman is raped , it is not adultery on her part because she had to do it by choice).
Judas didnt ask for mercy for being a thief in the same way that peter didnt ask for mercy for whatever sins he was doing . Judas was forced to do what he did, but still confessed his sin and repented
Judas didnt ask for mercy for being a thief in the same way that peter didnt ask for mercy for whatever sins he was doing . Judas was forced to do what he did, but still confessed his sin and repented
For all intrinsic purposes Judas was regarded as a disciple and follower of Christ. Even so much that they had to replace his position as one of the 12 apostles.
Now scripture says Judas fell from his ministry and apostleship. Obviously then, Judas was regarded as a being a real apostle, otherwise he wouldn't have fallen from it.
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
Now scripture says Judas fell from his ministry and apostleship. Obviously then, Judas was regarded as a being a real apostle, otherwise he wouldn't have fallen from it.
Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
We know that Judas Iscariot was called Jesus's friend,
Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
An unbeliever or unsaved person is not usually called God's friend.
There's a few good reasons why the belief "Judas was never saved in the first place" doesn't stack up.
Judas walked with Christ for 3 years.
Judas had accepted Christ, he gave up everything to follow Christ, as had the other disciples.
If Judas has decided to follow Christ with intent to betray him, then it may be said Judas was never saved. But there's no indication of that. The betraying comes later, when satan enters into him.
Judas remained with Christ's party even when many other disciples walked no longer with him.
Judas was regarded as a close friend of Jesus.
Judas was regarded as a disciple, an apostle, having a part in the ministry.
Judas was called and chosen to be an apostle and disciple.
Judas also shared in the ministry of healing the sick, casting out devils and preaching:
Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Scripture teaches a different view from the belief that Judas was never saved in the first place.
It is difficult to explain how Judas was given authority and such over illness, devils, and even preached, if Judas was never saved, as is claimed by some. This would mean Jesus chose an unsaved, unholy person to do His holy work! The apostle was the highest office in the New Testament church.
If we look carefully at Luke 6:16, the term "was" in Greek can more properly mean "became". We understand that Judas became the traitor, not was always a traitor.
Luk 6:16 And Judas thebrother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
And the Good News Bible writes it like that:
Luk 6:16 Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became the traitor.
If we take a look at this verse:
Joh 6:64 Yet some of you do not believe." (Jesus knew from the very beginning who were the ones that would not believe and which one would betray him.)
The ones who would not believe, and the one who betrayed him (Judas) are two different kinds of people. Judas was one of those who did believe, but would later betray him.
Psa 41:9 Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
An unbeliever or unsaved person is not usually called God's friend.
There's a few good reasons why the belief "Judas was never saved in the first place" doesn't stack up.
Judas walked with Christ for 3 years.
Judas had accepted Christ, he gave up everything to follow Christ, as had the other disciples.
If Judas has decided to follow Christ with intent to betray him, then it may be said Judas was never saved. But there's no indication of that. The betraying comes later, when satan enters into him.
Judas remained with Christ's party even when many other disciples walked no longer with him.
Judas was regarded as a close friend of Jesus.
Judas was regarded as a disciple, an apostle, having a part in the ministry.
Judas was called and chosen to be an apostle and disciple.
Judas also shared in the ministry of healing the sick, casting out devils and preaching:
Luk 9:1 Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Scripture teaches a different view from the belief that Judas was never saved in the first place.
It is difficult to explain how Judas was given authority and such over illness, devils, and even preached, if Judas was never saved, as is claimed by some. This would mean Jesus chose an unsaved, unholy person to do His holy work! The apostle was the highest office in the New Testament church.
If we look carefully at Luke 6:16, the term "was" in Greek can more properly mean "became". We understand that Judas became the traitor, not was always a traitor.
Luk 6:16 And Judas thebrother of James, and Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor.
And the Good News Bible writes it like that:
Luk 6:16 Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became the traitor.
If we take a look at this verse:
Joh 6:64 Yet some of you do not believe." (Jesus knew from the very beginning who were the ones that would not believe and which one would betray him.)
The ones who would not believe, and the one who betrayed him (Judas) are two different kinds of people. Judas was one of those who did believe, but would later betray him.
If Jesus was an unsaved person then scripture would have shown his story to be something like this:
Judas willingly accepted Christ's call to follow him, but Christ was his enemy, not his friend, who always intended to betray him. Judas hated Christ from the moment he followed him, never believed in him, and could never share in the ministry of the apostles of healing the sick, casting out devils and preaching...because he was never saved.
But scripture says, Judas was an apostle, followed Christ, a disciple, shared in Christ's ministry, was a friend of Christ, obviously believed in Christ...but later became a traitor..that scripture might be fulfilled.
Judas willingly accepted Christ's call to follow him, but Christ was his enemy, not his friend, who always intended to betray him. Judas hated Christ from the moment he followed him, never believed in him, and could never share in the ministry of the apostles of healing the sick, casting out devils and preaching...because he was never saved.
But scripture says, Judas was an apostle, followed Christ, a disciple, shared in Christ's ministry, was a friend of Christ, obviously believed in Christ...but later became a traitor..that scripture might be fulfilled.
Well of course... Judas never got to the place of actually carrying out his ministry as an apostle in the New Testament church sense. However, Judas was an apostle, there can be no doubt about that:
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James theson of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Scripture says Judas was numbered with the 12 and had a part in the ministry:
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the Book of Psalms, "Let his estate become forsaken, and he not be living in it." And, "Let another take his overseership."
There are obvious allusions here to the Old Testament rulers and authorities, where those entrusted with God's ministry and oversight of His people, fell from that office.
The sense in scriptures is that Judas is regarded as a traitor, not as an unbeliever. If Judas was an unbeliever, there would be no betraying Christ. You can't betray someone you don't follow or believe in!
I know that the "once saved always saved" uses the benefit of hindsight and says things like "Judas was never saved in the first place". But there is no indication of that here, or anywhere in the Scriptures. I let the bible speak for itself, rather than try to fit my idea of Eternal Security into the scriptures.
Mat 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James theson of Zebedee, and John his brother;
Mat 10:3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus;
Mat 10:4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.
Scripture says Judas was numbered with the 12 and had a part in the ministry:
Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the Book of Psalms, "Let his estate become forsaken, and he not be living in it." And, "Let another take his overseership."
There are obvious allusions here to the Old Testament rulers and authorities, where those entrusted with God's ministry and oversight of His people, fell from that office.
The sense in scriptures is that Judas is regarded as a traitor, not as an unbeliever. If Judas was an unbeliever, there would be no betraying Christ. You can't betray someone you don't follow or believe in!
I know that the "once saved always saved" uses the benefit of hindsight and says things like "Judas was never saved in the first place". But there is no indication of that here, or anywhere in the Scriptures. I let the bible speak for itself, rather than try to fit my idea of Eternal Security into the scriptures.
It's very hard to imagine an unsaved person, being called an apostle by Jesus. Let alone being given power and authority over satan, sickness, devils etc.
Also it's impossble for an unsaved person to betray someone who they don't follow or believe in anyway. If Judas was unsaved and betrayed Christ, that is not betrayal, that is something else. You can't be a traitor , if you are not genuinely part of the same party as Christ in the first place.
Those are some issues with claiming Judas was never saved in the first place.
Also it's impossble for an unsaved person to betray someone who they don't follow or believe in anyway. If Judas was unsaved and betrayed Christ, that is not betrayal, that is something else. You can't be a traitor , if you are not genuinely part of the same party as Christ in the first place.
Those are some issues with claiming Judas was never saved in the first place.
My point about the disciples choosing another..
if Judas was not a real follower of Christ and was not a real apostle... why did they choose another one to replace him so that there would be 12?
If they thought Judas was unsaved or not a real apostle, I'm sure they would have just stated the church with the 11 apostles, if they thought that the 12th one was a fake.
I forget what the number 12 represents.. 12 tribes of Israel?
I think they wanted to start the church off with the right number of apostles whom Christ had chosen.
Of course we know there were many more apostles than just 12. But they were the 12 chief apostles.
if Judas was not a real follower of Christ and was not a real apostle... why did they choose another one to replace him so that there would be 12?
If they thought Judas was unsaved or not a real apostle, I'm sure they would have just stated the church with the 11 apostles, if they thought that the 12th one was a fake.
I forget what the number 12 represents.. 12 tribes of Israel?
I think they wanted to start the church off with the right number of apostles whom Christ had chosen.
Of course we know there were many more apostles than just 12. But they were the 12 chief apostles.
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