All nations shall flow unto it

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Jun 11, 2020
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#41
The Eternal New Heavens And Earth Is Seen Below, houses built and lived in, vineyards planted and the fruit eaten.

Isaiah 65:17-21KJV
17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Good. Agreed.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#42
Yes we are in the latter days they began when the veil was rent it signified the flesh of the first born called our bloody husband . The sign of circummsion had come.

Acts 2:16-18 King James Version (KJV) But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Twice to emphasize the timing.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists (plural) ; whereby we know that it is the last time.
I tend to agree. I would not say that the time of circumcision is come, but you did not enlarge on that so I'll pass on commenting too.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#43
I tend to agree. I would not say that the time of circumcision is come, but you did not enlarge on that so I'll pass on commenting too.
I meant to say time for the ceremonial shadow or veil to be lifted and the propmised glory revealed .The veil representing the flesh of our bloody husband.

A interesting parable of the first born in Exodus 4. Referring to him as a our bloody husband. Zipporah is used as a priestess signifying the priesthood of believers.

Exodus 4:22And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.(
Gershom) Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Gershom. meaning a stranger there.

There the gospel was revealed to the whole family hid in that living parable used to speak of that sufferings beforehand as the glory the veil was rent the graves opened .

We look back by the same spirit of faith that they used to look ahead to that demonstration

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter1:9-11

Similar to the parable of Abraham and Isaac.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#44
The word "spiritual" has tow meanings:
  1. It is spirit in substance - like God is a Spirit (Jn.4:24)
  2. It has its ORIGIN in the Holy Spirit - that is, the Holy Spirit was its Maker - like the spiritual gifts of 1st Corinthians 12
If you say a Kingdom is spiritual, and mean that it was created and sustained by the Holy Spirit (point # 2 above), you are correct and we agree. But then you also have to agree that the 1,000 years is a literal and physical time initiated and sustained by the same Holy Spirit. Either the coming Kingdom is physical and all that pertains to it is physical and thus literal, or it is ALL allegorical.
There will be no future 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, as I have stated Several times.

Revelation 20:1-6 represents this "Current" time of Jesus Christ reigning, and will cease at the "Second Coming" immediately after the tribulation.

1,000 years isn't literal time, but is simply a symbolic explanation to man's mind, that Jesus Christ and those Believers that have passed are in the (Eternal Realm Of No Time) 2 Peter 3:8KJV

It could have been written a Billion/Zillion years

Immediately after the future tribulation, Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, on the (Last Day)

(The Last Day, In The Twinkling Of An Eye)

1. Jesus Returns, immediately after trib
2. The resurrection of all takes place
3. The catching up/Rapture of the living believer.
4. The Heavens and Earth are dissolved by the Lord's fire
5. The Wicked are eternally judged to the Lake of Fire
6. The Righteous enter the Eternal New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#45
I meant to say time for the ceremonial shadow or veil to be lifted and the propmised glory revealed .The veil representing the flesh of our bloody husband.

A interesting parable of the first born in Exodus 4. Referring to him as a our bloody husband. Zipporah is used as a priestess signifying the priesthood of believers.

Exodus 4:22And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.(
Gershom) Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

Gershom. meaning a stranger there.

There the gospel was revealed to the whole family hid in that living parable used to speak of that sufferings beforehand as the glory the veil was rent the graves opened .

We look back by the same spirit of faith that they used to look ahead to that demonstration

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1 Peter1:9-11

Similar to the parable of Abraham and Isaac.
No doubt there is deep significance in the narrative of Genesis 4. I see things slightly differentyl, but I would not discount your perspective. Here is mine.

The Veil.
From the time dam ate of the forbidden and deadly Tree, the way to God was cut off by a fiery sword. Later, when God deigned to dwell with Israel, this separation is kept, for no matter the blood of bulls and goats, no matter the washings and diet, Israel were men in the flesh. Only Aaron, once a year, was permitted beyond the Veil with blood for his People. When God changed His Temple from that "made with hands" to the body of Jesus, again God is "veiled" by the flesh of Jesus. Philip perceives Jesus but does not regoconise the Father in Him (Jn.14:9). With sin put away by the shedding of Jesus' blood, the way to God is made free - BUT ONLY IN THE COMPANY OF A NEW HIGH PRIEST - JESUS (Jn.14:6).

Circumcision.
When God made His promises to Abraham, He was constrained to make a Covenant - not for His sake, but for men's sake. God promised to give Abraham and his seed Canaan. But the Good Land was only to be had for thse who entered this Covenant. And the "sign" was circumcision (Rom.4:11). It was symbolic of laying aside the pleasures of the flesh to accomplish God's plan to occupy the Land and dwell there. Moses was selected for the job of accomplishing this Covenant - that is, he was to lead the seed of Abraham into the Land. And in the moment of his calling, and his setting out to gather Israel from Egypt, he had failed to circumcise his firstborn. The Covenant was set and so Moses should die (Gen.17:10-14). Zipporah, a Gentile, sees the threat and averts it by the shedding of blood.

But what then has a Gentle to do with the Covenant of Promise? The answer is that Abraham went over and above the faith he had at the beginning. Three times he believes God in the (i) slaughter of the kings and the spoils, (ii) the willingness to slay his son who was the son of Promise but who had not yet had seed, and (iii) he refuse a gift of his burial place at Machpelah and buys it, thus shweing all that he would receive spoils and the Land at God's hand and not the heathen. For this, Abraham is promised seed as the stars and these would (i) "possess the gates of his enemies, and (ii) posses NOT ONLY CANAAN, but the whole world (Rom.4:13). But for Canaan circumcision is enough, but to gain the whole world more is needed. 1st Corinthians 15:50-53 declares the whole flesh and blood UNFIT for this Kingdom. The solution is that the whole BODY must be circumcised. Jesus calls His death circumcision "without hands" in Colossians 2:11 but changes to "sign" from circumcision to Baptism (see also Matt.20:22). And according to Romans 6:1-6, we are "immersed in Christ's death" by baptism.

But Jesus does not baptize with water (Jn.4:2). His disciples are commanded to do this - the Church (Matt.28:19). Thus, it is the Church, pictured by Zipporah - the Gentile wife, who administers the "sign". But the actual shedding of the blood in being fully cut off, was the "greater" Moses - Jesus. Circumcision for the Jew for Canaan and administered on orders from the father. Baptism for the Church for the whole earth and administered by the Church- but a "sign" of Christ's - the Husband by blood.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#46
There will be no future 1,000 year kingdom on this earth, as I have stated Several times.
But Revelation 20 does. Who shall we believe?

Revelation 20:1-6 represents this "Current" time of Jesus Christ reigning, and will cease at the "Second Coming" immediately after the tribulation.
I see no men who were beheaded by the the Beast "living". Even you give the resurrection as AFTER Christ comes. I see no men who were dead, and who now live, Reigning with Christ. According to the plain language and grammar of Revelation 20 the 1,000 is when Satan is bound. Since Armageddon has not yet been fought, Satan is still around. He is only bound after Armageddon.

1,000 years isn't literal time, but is simply a symbolic explanation to man's mind, that Jesus Christ and those Believers that have passed are in the (Eternal Realm Of No Time) 2 Peter 3:8KJV

It could have been written a Billion/Zillion years
Everything in Revelation 20 is literal. There is no reason to make this one single part of the whole Chapter allegorical. All that it does is change the meaning. But even if we allow you your allegorical 1,000 years, it is still a time when Christ and those resurrected at His coming, will reign.

Immediately after the future tribulation, Jesus Christ returns in fire and final judgement, on the (Last Day)
My Bible says that after the future Tribulation Christ (i) gathers Israel from the four winds (Matt.24:31, Jer.49:36; Ezek.37:9), (ii) smashes Gentile Government (Dan.2:31-35), (iii) judges "ALL nations" (Matt.25:31-46) and rules the nations with a rod of iron. The Kingdoms of the earth become the kingdoms of our Lord AFTER the 42 months of Tribulation (Rev.11.15).

(The Last Day, In The Twinkling Of An Eye)

1. Jesus Returns, immediately after trib
2. The resurrection of all takes place
3. The catching up/Rapture of the living believer.
4. The Heavens and Earth are dissolved by the Lord's fire
5. The Wicked are eternally judged to the Lake of Fire
6. The Righteous enter the Eternal New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem
I would list it like this;
  1. Jesus returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matt.24:30)
  2. The resurrection of "those who are His" at His COMING (1st Cor.15:23)
  3. The judgment of the Church at the Bema in the air (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)
  4. The judgment of Israel at His Throne on earth (Dan.12:2)
  5. The judgment of "ALL Nations" at His Throne on earth (Matt.25:31-46)
  6. The establishing of Jerusalem as the new world Capital (Zech.14:16)
  7. The earth is "regenerated" while the 12 Apostles rule Israel (Matt.19:28)
  8. Christ rules for 1,000 years with Overcomers (Rev.20:4-6)
  9. Satan is let lose at the end of the 1,000 years to raise up a rebellion by Magog and Gog
  10. Magog's rebellion is put down and the heavens and the earth are purged by fire (Rev.20:11-13)
  11. God ushers in a "Renewed" (lit. Gk.) heavens and earth (Rev.21)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#47
No doubt there is deep significance in the narrative of Genesis 4. I see things slightly differentyl, but I would not discount your perspective. Here is mine.

The Veil.
From the time dam ate of the forbidden and deadly Tree, the way to God was cut off by a fiery sword. Later, when God deigned to dwell with Israel, this separation is kept, for no matter the blood of bulls and goats, no matter the washings and diet, Israel were men in the flesh. Only Aaron, once a year, was permitted beyond the Veil with blood for his People. When God changed His Temple from that "made with hands" to the body of Jesus, again God is "veiled" by the flesh of Jesus. Philip perceives Jesus but does not regoconise the Father in Him (Jn.14:9). With sin put away by the shedding of Jesus' blood, the way to God is made free - BUT ONLY IN THE COMPANY OF A NEW HIGH PRIEST - JESUS (Jn.14:6).

Circumcision.
When God made His promises to Abraham, He was constrained to make a Covenant - not for His sake, but for men's sake. God promised to give Abraham and his seed Canaan. But the Good Land was only to be had for thse who entered this Covenant. And the "sign" was circumcision (Rom.4:11). It was symbolic of laying aside the pleasures of the flesh to accomplish God's plan to occupy the Land and dwell there. Moses was selected for the job of accomplishing this Covenant - that is, he was to lead the seed of Abraham into the Land. And in the moment of his calling, and his setting out to gather Israel from Egypt, he had failed to circumcise his firstborn. The Covenant was set and so Moses should die (Gen.17:10-14). Zipporah, a Gentile, sees the threat and averts it by the shedding of blood.

But what then has a Gentle to do with the Covenant of Promise? The answer is that Abraham went over and above the faith he had at the beginning. Three times he believes God in the (i) slaughter of the kings and the spoils, (ii) the willingness to slay his son who was the son of Promise but who had not yet had seed, and (iii) he refuse a gift of his burial place at Machpelah and buys it, thus shweing all that he would receive spoils and the Land at God's hand and not the heathen. For this, Abraham is promised seed as the stars and these would (i) "possess the gates of his enemies, and (ii) posses NOT ONLY CANAAN, but the whole world (Rom.4:13). But for Canaan circumcision is enough, but to gain the whole world more is needed. 1st Corinthians 15:50-53 declares the whole flesh and blood UNFIT for this Kingdom. The solution is that the whole BODY must be circumcised. Jesus calls His death circumcision "without hands" in Colossians 2:11 but changes to "sign" from circumcision to Baptism (see also Matt.20:22). And according to Romans 6:1-6, we are "immersed in Christ's death" by baptism.

But Jesus does not baptize with water (Jn.4:2). His disciples are commanded to do this - the Church (Matt.28:19). Thus, it is the Church, pictured by Zipporah - the Gentile wife, who administers the "sign". But the actual shedding of the blood in being fully cut off, was the "greater" Moses - Jesus. Circumcision for the Jew for Canaan and administered on orders from the father. Baptism for the Church for the whole earth and administered by the Church- but a "sign" of Christ's - the Husband by blood.
Thanks well written.

Moses does represent the letter of the law death and is why he did not enter the propmised land. He struck the law "Rock" to signify Christ twice . Which was to be once to demonstrate the gospel going out .No double jeopardy. The law will not enter the promise land

Abraham a precursor of Moses like Moses. They both involved it seems three to work out the demonstration . Abraham Isaac and the Ram . Or Moses, Zipporah and Gershom as the Ram .

Some accredit the bloody husband the warning to killing Moses and not Gershom . Still working on it. Do you think Gershom was part of that prophecy ?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#48
But Revelation 20 does. Who shall we believe?



I see no men who were beheaded by the the Beast "living". Even you give the resurrection as AFTER Christ comes. I see no men who were dead, and who now live, Reigning with Christ. According to the plain language and grammar of Revelation 20 the 1,000 is when Satan is bound. Since Armageddon has not yet been fought, Satan is still around. He is only bound after Armageddon.


My Bible says that after the future Tribulation Christ (i) gathers Israel from the four winds (Matt.24:31, Jer.49:36; Ezek.37:9), (ii) smashes Gentile Government (Dan.2:31-35), (iii) judges "ALL nations" (Matt.25:31-46) and rules the nations with a rod of iron. The Kingdoms of the earth become the kingdoms of our Lord AFTER the 42 months of Tribulation (Rev.11.15).


I would list it like this;
  1. Jesus returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matt.24:30)
  2. The resurrection of "those who are His" at His COMING (1st Cor.15:23)
  3. The judgment of the Church at the Bema in the air (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)
  4. The judgment of Israel at His Throne on earth (Dan.12:2)
  5. The judgment of "ALL Nations" at His Throne on earth (Matt.25:31-46)
  6. The establishing of Jerusalem as the new world Capital (Zech.14:16)
  7. The earth is "regenerated" while the 12 Apostles rule Israel (Matt.19:28)
  8. Christ rules for 1,000 years with Overcomers (Rev.20:4-6)
  9. Satan is let lose at the end of the 1,000 years to raise up a rebellion by Magog and Gog
  10. Magog's rebellion is put down and the heavens and the earth are purged by fire (Rev.20:11-13)
  11. God ushers in a "Renewed" (lit. Gk.) heavens and earth (Rev.21)

I would offer from a Amil position "no literal thousand year" .Used nine times throughout the bible in that same way .

We walk by faith the unseen will. And not of those of the numbering days and people.

Men who were dead, and who now live represent the believers. Death to new born again life.

Everything in Revelation 20 is literal. There is no reason to make this one single part of the whole Chapter allegorical. All that it does is change the meaning. But even if we allow you your allegorical 1,000 years, it is still a time when Christ and those resurrected at His coming, will reign.

Everything in Revelation is written as a parable hiding the unseen gospel understanding form those who do literalize the signified understating . Shown in the opening verse (Revelation 1:1 )setting the kind of language throughout
Every metaphor in that parable has a understanding attached.

Two kinds of binding . The one in Revelation 20 is in respect to all the nation that were deceived up until the time of reformation the great tribulation, like never before or ever again . Deceiving the nations that God was a God of the Jew and not the Gentiles as always .Eulogizing the corrupted flesh of mankind in that way. That kind of binding or hold the father of lies had on all the nations was released by the Holy Spirit . The key that unlocks the gates of hell and binds the spirit of error.
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#49
Thanks well written.

Moses does represent the letter of the law death and is why he did not enter the propmised land. He struck the law "Rock" to signify Christ twice . Which was to be once to demonstrate the gospel going out .No double jeopardy. The law will not enter the promise land

Abraham a precursor of Moses like Moses. They both involved it seems three to work out the demonstration . Abraham Isaac and the Ram . Or Moses, Zipporah and Gershom as the Ram .

Some accredit the bloody husband the warning to killing Moses and not Gershom . Still working on it. Do you think Gershom was part of that prophecy ?
Yes. Gershom is a picture of you and I - "circumcised with the circumcision without hands" by the Church. That is, Baptized by the believers and not Christ, but as a "sign" that we have been crucified with Christ (Rom.6:1-6, Gal.2:20). Moses speaks for Christ (the husband of blood), Zipporah speaks for the Church - the Gentile wife, and Gershom, a stranger and pilgrim then, speaks for the individual saints who is a pilgrim now, but inherits later. Moses leaves his wife and son when he goes to deliver Israel. Christ first marries the Church then delivers Israel (Act.15:14-16).
 
Jun 11, 2020
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#50
I would offer from a Amil position "no literal thousand year" .Used nine times throughout the bible in that same way .

We walk by faith the unseen will. And not of those of the numbering days and people.

Men who were dead, and who now live represent the believers. Death to new born again life.

Everything in Revelation 20 is literal. There is no reason to make this one single part of the whole Chapter allegorical. All that it does is change the meaning. But even if we allow you your allegorical 1,000 years, it is still a time when Christ and those resurrected at His coming, will reign.

Everything in Revelation is written as a parable hiding the unseen gospel understanding form those who do literalize the signified understating . Shown in the opening verse (Revelation 1:1 )setting the kind of language throughout
Every metaphor in that parable has a understanding attached.

Two kinds of binding . The one in Revelation 20 is in respect to all the nation that were deceived up until the time of reformation the great tribulation, like never before or ever again . Deceiving the nations that God was a God of the Jew and not the Gentiles as always .Eulogizing the corrupted flesh of mankind in that way. That kind of binding or hold the father of lies had on all the nations was released by the Holy Spirit . The key that unlocks the gates of hell and binds the spirit of error.
I appreciate your position and your proofs. But I think you will agree that everything is not a "sign" in Revelation. Are Churches a "sign"? Is our Lord Jesus a "sign"? Is Armageddon a sign or a place? Let us look at that verse closely.

Revelation 1:1 (KJV); "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John."

  1. First, the word "Revelation" is "Apokalypsis" in the Greek. It means "made manifest", or "revealed". According to the grammar, it is NOT the revealing of secrets or prophecy, but the "REVEALING" of the Person of Jesus when He is suddenly seen by men as He bursts from the clouds.
  2. Second, the word "shortly" in the Greek can mean "in a short time", but it also means "quickly" and it could mean "suddenly". So the things that would happen, have, by proof of history (nearly 2,000 years), taken the meaning of "in a short period time", or, "quickly once it starts."
  3. Thirdly, if points 1 and 2 are correct, then the events of Chapters 4 through 20 are all related to the bursting forth of Christ from the clouds - His "Apokalypsis" (from which the Book got its original name - Apocalypse)
  4. Lastly, it is the "things that must suddenly come to pass" that are subject to signs, not every single thing in the Book. Let us take an example.
Revelation 1:13-15:
13 "And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters."


Seven Lampstands are a "sign" for the testimony of a Local Church. But "Son of man" is real. Jesus was "seed of the woman". Jesus is clothed. Are His clothes real or a "sign". Most probably a "sign" of Jesus as High Priest because the High Priest of Israel wore a garment to the foot. His white hair might or might not be a "sign". Jesus is nearly 2,000 years old, but it could be that scripture wants us to see even a longer period than this as He is the "ancient of days" and "firstborn of creation". Or is it that the "white" shows a sinless Head of the Church, or that His every thought is pure? Who knows? We must interpret the Bible with the Bible (2nd Pet.1:20). "Eyes like flame of fire" is definitely a "sign". His "feet" are real, for He is the Son of man, but how did John see them under the garment? The idea of the High Priest's full length clothes was that no flesh would appear in the Holy of Holies. Again, "fine brass is a sign that He walks in Judgment of apostate Churches. His voice is real but it being thunderous is a "sign" of displeasure and of power.

What do you think brother? Is a "seal" a "sign"? And is the torment of men real or a sign? Is Jesus a real Lamb or is that a "sign"? Could it be that if we studied prophecy throughout the Bible, we would find "signs" that depict something but that the fulfillment was real?

Try this exercise for yourself - not me. Take every single thing in Revelation Chapter 20 and show why it is a "sign", what it means and all without private interpretation (2nd Pet.1:20). You will have great difficulty. But if we take eveything for real until it proves to be s sign, then we get a logical and comprehensive and coherent picture of Christ fulfilling God's plan of Genesis 1:26-28.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#51
But Revelation 20 does. Who shall we believe?



I see no men who were beheaded by the the Beast "living". Even you give the resurrection as AFTER Christ comes. I see no men who were dead, and who now live, Reigning with Christ. According to the plain language and grammar of Revelation 20 the 1,000 is when Satan is bound. Since Armageddon has not yet been fought, Satan is still around. He is only bound after Armageddon.



Everything in Revelation 20 is literal. There is no reason to make this one single part of the whole Chapter allegorical. All that it does is change the meaning. But even if we allow you your allegorical 1,000 years, it is still a time when Christ and those resurrected at His coming, will reign.



My Bible says that after the future Tribulation Christ (i) gathers Israel from the four winds (Matt.24:31, Jer.49:36; Ezek.37:9), (ii) smashes Gentile Government (Dan.2:31-35), (iii) judges "ALL nations" (Matt.25:31-46) and rules the nations with a rod of iron. The Kingdoms of the earth become the kingdoms of our Lord AFTER the 42 months of Tribulation (Rev.11.15).



I would list it like this;
  1. Jesus returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matt.24:30)
  2. The resurrection of "those who are His" at His COMING (1st Cor.15:23)
  3. The judgment of the Church at the Bema in the air (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)
  4. The judgment of Israel at His Throne on earth (Dan.12:2)
  5. The judgment of "ALL Nations" at His Throne on earth (Matt.25:31-46)
  6. The establishing of Jerusalem as the new world Capital (Zech.14:16)
  7. The earth is "regenerated" while the 12 Apostles rule Israel (Matt.19:28)
  8. Christ rules for 1,000 years with Overcomers (Rev.20:4-6)
  9. Satan is let lose at the end of the 1,000 years to raise up a rebellion by Magog and Gog
  10. Magog's rebellion is put down and the heavens and the earth are purged by fire (Rev.20:11-13)
  11. God ushers in a "Renewed" (lit. Gk.) heavens and earth (Rev.21)
You falsely claim in item #5 above that Matthew 25:31-46 is a judgement, with human life on this earth continuing after, in a millennial kingdom on this earth?

Your claim is 100%

The judgement seen is nothing more than a "Parable" of the final great white throne judgement as seen in Rev 20:11-15

As Matthew 25:46 below clearly sees the (Final Eternal Judgement)

Wicked: Everlasting Punishment

Righteous: Eternal Life

Matthew 25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#52
But Revelation 20 does. Who shall we believe?



I see no men who were beheaded by the the Beast "living". Even you give the resurrection as AFTER Christ comes. I see no men who were dead, and who now live, Reigning with Christ. According to the plain language and grammar of Revelation 20 the 1,000 is when Satan is bound. Since Armageddon has not yet been fought, Satan is still around. He is only bound after Armageddon.



Everything in Revelation 20 is literal. There is no reason to make this one single part of the whole Chapter allegorical. All that it does is change the meaning. But even if we allow you your allegorical 1,000 years, it is still a time when Christ and those resurrected at His coming, will reign.



My Bible says that after the future Tribulation Christ (i) gathers Israel from the four winds (Matt.24:31, Jer.49:36; Ezek.37:9), (ii) smashes Gentile Government (Dan.2:31-35), (iii) judges "ALL nations" (Matt.25:31-46) and rules the nations with a rod of iron. The Kingdoms of the earth become the kingdoms of our Lord AFTER the 42 months of Tribulation (Rev.11.15).

I would list it like this;
  1. Jesus returns immediately after the Tribulation (Matt.24:30)
  2. The resurrection of "those who are His" at His COMING (1st Cor.15:23)
  3. The judgment of the Church at the Bema in the air (Rom.14:10; 2nd Cor.5:10)
  4. The judgment of Israel at His Throne on earth (Dan.12:2)
  5. The judgment of "ALL Nations" at His Throne on earth (Matt.25:31-46)
  6. The establishing of Jerusalem as the new world Capital (Zech.14:16)
  7. The earth is "regenerated" while the 12 Apostles rule Israel (Matt.19:28)
  8. Christ rules for 1,000 years with Overcomers (Rev.20:4-6)
  9. Satan is let lose at the end of the 1,000 years to raise up a rebellion by Magog and Gog
  10. Magog's rebellion is put down and the heavens and the earth are purged by fire (Rev.20:11-13)
  11. God ushers in a "Renewed" (lit. Gk.) heavens and earth (Rev.21)
Once again, you use the "False Claim" that Jesus Christ is going to "Rule With A Rod Of Iron" and suggesting this is interpreted he sits on a throne Ruling?

This claim and suggestion is false, you have been shown that this pertains to Jesus Christ destroying "Man" on earth, as a potter strikes the clay vessels with a "Rod Of Iron" to break it into shivers.

The scripture below clearly teaches that "Man" will be destroyed, as a potter brakes his clay vessels.

Will you continue to teach contrary to the very clear scripture presented?

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.


Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#53
First: If you guys go for the New Earth thing, hey, that's fine with me, it's your belief. Second: I have a more Heavenly view of Eternal Life...
These two expectations are not incompatible at all. The eternal home of the Church will be the New Jerusalem, which is in Heaven. At the same time redeemed and restored Israel, and the saved nations surrounding it will be on the New Earth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#54
The scripture below clearly teaches that "Man" will be destroyed, as a potter brakes his clay vessels.
That is a total misinterpretation. "Man" (mankind) will not be destroyed during the Millennium. Christ does destroy His enemies (and the enemies of Israel) at his Second Coming (the battle of Armageddon). Then He establishes His Millennial Kingdom in which He rules "with a rod of iron" (which means everything is strictly within Christ's control), and there is peace and righteousness on earth.

But as we know, the succeeding generation (s) during the Millennium will develop a rebellious spirit, which will allow Satan to gather the enemies of Christ for the battle of Gog and Magog. And once again the enemies of Christ will be destroyed.

It is only after this (and after the Great White Throne Judgment) that the New Heavens and the New Earth come into existence.
 

rhern

Active member
Jan 29, 2020
192
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#55
That is a total misinterpretation. "Man" (mankind) will not be destroyed during the Millennium. Christ does destroy His enemies (and the enemies of Israel) at his Second Coming (the battle of Armageddon). Then He establishes His Millennial Kingdom in which He rules "with a rod of iron" (which means everything is strictly within Christ's control), and there is peace and righteousness on earth.

But as we know, the succeeding generation (s) during the Millennium will develop a rebellious spirit, which will allow Satan to gather the enemies of Christ for the battle of Gog and Magog. And once again the enemies of Christ will be destroyed.

It is only after this (and after the Great White Throne Judgment) that the New Heavens and the New Earth come into existence.
**man kind will be destroyed if they do not obey the Lord's command during the 1000 year Reign of Christ.

The Kingdom; Christ The King of the world

Zechariah 14 King James Version (KJV)
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

..
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#56
That is a total misinterpretation. "Man" (mankind) will not be destroyed during the Millennium. Christ does destroy His enemies (and the enemies of Israel) at his Second Coming (the battle of Armageddon). Then He establishes His Millennial Kingdom in which He rules "with a rod of iron" (which means everything is strictly within Christ's control), and there is peace and righteousness on earth.

But as we know, the succeeding generation (s) during the Millennium will develop a rebellious spirit, which will allow Satan to gather the enemies of Christ for the battle of Gog and Magog. And once again the enemies of Christ will be destroyed.

It is only after this (and after the Great White Throne Judgment) that the New Heavens and the New Earth come into existence.
There will not be a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, a false teaching of man.

Jesus returns to the battle of Armageddon, immediately after the tribulation, in final judgement by fire, as the heavens and earth are "Dissolved" by the Lord's fire in judgement 2 Peter 3:10-13
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#57
**man kind will be destroyed if they do not obey the Lord's command during the 1000 year Reign of Christ.

The Kingdom; Christ The King of the world

Zechariah 14 King James Version (KJV)
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

..
1.) Do you believe the "Day Of The Lord" seen in Zechariah 14:1 is different than that seen below in 2 Peter 3:10-13?

2.) Do you believe mortal humans exist after 2 Peter 3:10-13 below?

3.) Do you see the (River Of Life) in Zechariah 14:8 below?

4.) As seen Below In Zechariah 14:12 men are consumed as they stand on their feet, how does this take place by (Fire)?

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#58
These two expectations are not incompatible at all. The eternal home of the Church will be the New Jerusalem, which is in Heaven. At the same time redeemed and restored Israel, and the saved nations surrounding it will be on the New Earth.
Sorta like segregation all over again, Jews in the back of the bus, Gentiles in the front.

(Dual Covenant Theology, Is A False Teaching)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#59
Sorta like segregation all over again, Jews in the back of the bus, Gentiles in the front.
This ludicrous statement proves once again that you need to be LEARNING about biblical eschatology, not trying to present a bogus eschatology.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
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#60
This ludicrous statement proves once again that you need to be LEARNING about biblical eschatology, not trying to present a bogus eschatology.
(Dual Covenant Theology, Is A False Teaching)

God has (One Church) where there isn't distinction to ethnic heritage, as yourself and (Dual Covenant Theology) falsely teaches.

Galatians 3:27-28KJV
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.