Calvinist Kitchen...stirring the pot

[jackrosie]

You are “telling “ me why I’m passive aggressive...haaaaa,that is funny.

I asked you innocently if you are secure in your faith..nothing to do with my fruit.
Did I say that I have more than others from the Lord?

Being saved by Christ the same as everyone else doesn’t sit nicely with me....an assumption from you not truth.
I Love to Praise my Father In Heaven and will continue to do so.

Where did I say I saved myself....doesn’t sit nicely with me again an assumption and not truth.

 

[garee]

Thanks for sharing that. I didn't know there were four point Calvinists. I read what I mentioned earlier. Synod of Dort and all the rest.
Forgive me but, what a bunch of contradictory malarkey. Talk about Elitist bunk! The whole thing is just insulting to God and Jesus. God predestined everything! All of it unto minutia.
And the TULIP thing is like a scaffold of contradiction. First God makes me to be totally depraved. What a testament to a benevolent creator that isn't. Then, when God is ready, he will let me find my way to his good news that isn't all that good for those it wasn't meant for. John 3:16? Oh, perish the thought. Then he makes me to not be totally depraved anymore so that I can comprehend what the good news means to me personally by his choice alone. Then I am securely saved no matter what I do.

Because everything up to that point was window dressing. There I am being walked about like a puppet having been depraved totally before by God and then when God was ready, was made to be open to his good news that I'm one of the special ones he'll save from the fate others are sure to suffer.
Because the reason all that happened to me by God's will is because God picked me to be saved before the beginning of anything at all.

Which makes no sense. None in the least. Because when God saved me before even sin came to exist because the world didn't yet exist, why did the fall have to happen, why did Jesus have to die, why were the Apostles told to spread the Gospel to all the world because God wished none should perish, when before anything existed at all God pre selected souls he would send to an earth not yet created, to save from a sin that didn't yet exist.
When it is all God all the time, why do we have to do anything at all? Why would God send himself to die to fulfill what he had already predetermined to happen all by himself?

Another thing. If God is so great and all these positive attributes, why would he create from himself the human species to be totally depraved first? And then saves a certain allotment of us from the fate he predetermined for everyone, good or bad, that the saved ones believe in him and the unsaved ones perish because he made it so. They never once stood a chance. Nor does the world with the totally depraved living in it.
And furthermore, since it is all God doing this, why?
Why does God need to delude himself that people believe in him when if it wasn't for him making them able to do that, they wouldn't. Because he made them totally incapable of being good first.


I'm rambling but once I got started it just flowed out. None of it makes God look good.
Who would live their life believing they're one of them? The one's God pre decided worthy of saving? And too, since we're all totally depraved, how do we know if we think we're one of them that we are? When we're totally depraved thinking we're God's special one could just be a co-factor of our egocentric malignant narcissist totally depraved human nature.

I would offer. Two side to every coin. Give to God what is his and to mankind which is theirs. Salvation is of the Lord.

The gospel is not take a chance at gambling, spin the wheel but God taking a choice. Salvation never once stood as a chance. Faith is believing not guessing. If he has begun the good work of drawing he will finish it to the end

Its not about the unbelieving Elitist but the Elected . As many as as the father has given to the Son, they alone can come. No man can unless the father is giving them words to draw them toward him not seen, Not one more of three thousand less.

" Many" is the key or missing link..

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

It would seem as many who do have the treasure hid in their new hearts .If any man has not the Spirit of Christ .Then neither do they belong as one of the many

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. . . . . . . (the powerless, faithless)

 

[Magenta]

Your response is actually passive aggressive. I will explain why. When you write 'sorry it upsets you', you are wielding an untruth as a weapon rather than stating the obvious truth which you fail to see. What would that be? We are all saved only by Christ and not of ourselves, and this somehow does not settle well with you it would seem.

Further along those lines, you stating you are secure in your faith and then throwing 'are you' at me, is anything but fruit of the Holy Spirit.

There is nothing you have that God has not done the same for others. The Bible is very informative along those lines.

My post to you has nothing to do with the op. It has to do with your suggestions others are passive aggressive when you display the same. I thought you might want to correct that.

smh

Amen!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry Bro I’m not arguing..I can’t be forced to believe what I don’t believe.
And I’m not saying you are forcing me.....I don’t agree with your post,xx

You do not have to agree
but it does not mean we are not a believer in the god they believe in

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One should always take note of the responses which bring a reasoned and rational a biblical argument with some context, exegesis &c, as opposed to other responses that are strewn with loudness, anger, ridicule, bitterness, unsubstantiated claims, eisegesis, zero context, unproven assertions and the like.

It is easy to see which would be according to God's leading, and according to God's truth and ways. If we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the desire of the flesh and answer in the latter manner.

One who is converted and walking in the Spirit can sense this to be true. Note Hebrews 5:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:21. God doesn't scream his truth at us, it is peaceable, easy to be entreated, gentle, it wisdom from above, without hypocrisy &c note James 3:17, and the counterpart also has its source as per James 3:13-16.

When one is called out to define a doctrine they've spoken against (in this instance"Irresistible Grace") and are making baseless conclusions, and then skip over answering the request to tell us what they think it teaches, it is highly likely they do not wish to be proven incorrect in their assumptions. Best to not answer and not be proven incorrect to some. That is to willfully remain in unfamiliarity, unable to accept correction and present the truth, not emotions, feelings and irrational conclusions.

I know you already know this, but we must always remind ourselves when we are reading through and seeing the spirit of the responses.

I am still waiting for you to answer your accusarion

Your attempted sweet talk will not take the heat off your accusations

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you,preacher,that was very informative...I hear you well and clear..know exactly what you are saying here.

To bad he does not understand what he told you. His hermeneutics are seriously lacking

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi @eternally-gratefull ...
But did God not first by His grace , give us the gift of faith to believe in His Son our Lord and Savior ?
...xox...

God gave us the gift of salvation and through that gift enabled us to have faith to receive That salvation
sorry sister I love you but I hate fatalistic belief As it gives my god a bad reputation

 

[jackrosie]

You do not have to agree
but it does not mean we are not a believer in the god they believe in

Not getting what you mean here.

 

[soggykitten]

Here's something. What with what Calvinists believe and all, what are we who aren't one of them doing but stirring a pot of our own emotions here? We're not going to change their mind. If anything, we're proving to them we're not one of them and we're likely thought to be carping because we know this.
Aren't we giving them a platform to feel more smug than they already do?
I can see why we'd want to blather on about how stupid and ridiculous the pre destination principles are and all, Lord knows. But, aren't we just reinvigorating what the Tulip bunch, you know what two lips are don't ya? Just put your two lips together and LIE ABOUT GOD, already think about the majority of the worlds people?

Another thought. Why would a Calvinist be on a non's site in the first place? Isn't that like dredging the slums of the totally depraved? Might get some on ya.

OK, I'm done.

ZOOKS what a way to insult a lovely flower as that.

 

[preacher4truth]

You are “telling “ me why I’m passive aggressive...haaaaa,that is funny.

I asked you innocently if you are secure in your faith..nothing to do with my fruit.
Did I say that I have more than others from the Lord?

Being saved by Christ the same as everyone else doesn’t sit nicely with me....an assumption from you not truth.
I Love to Praise my Father In Heaven and will continue to do so.

It is a bit interesting that of the many posts in here with the vitriol, anger, and ad hominem she picked yours out of all of them to call it "passive aggressive."

Hmmmmm. Seems a tad out of touch with reality.

 

[jackrosie]

To bad he does not understand what he told you. His hermeneutics are seriously lacking

Now then bro....you got your claws out tonight....why involve me in your disagreement with preacher?

 

[jackrosie]

It is a bit interesting that of the many posts in here with the vitriol, anger, and ad hominem she picked yours out of all of them to call it "passive aggressive."

Hmmmmm. Seems a tad out of touch with reality.

I know....I had to laugh at that..it was noted though.lol,lol.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No question about it!

That's why it's so vital to understand that it was HE WHO GIFTED ME THAT FAITH, so I COULD believe, just exactly like Ephesians 2 said He did.

He did not make you born again BEFORE the penalty of sin was paid for. And that is called justification
the penalty of sin is death the gift of god is eternal life
the gift can not be enabled until the penalty is removed. That again happens by grace through faith

God offers all people the ability to have faith. Not everyone chooses To receive it

Fatalism can not get over this hump. That’s why I will never believe it

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Just read Ephesians 2....Amen bro.....Amen!

Better real a lot more than that sis. And Ephesians 2 does not support fatalism as some think

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Did God not chose us before the foundation of the world? , why would He chose us if we were to rebel against Him like unbelievers rebel , like we rebelled against Him before He called us...
Do you not think that God knew we would accept His calling , He had already chosen us to be in Him...
...xox...

Yep he did
how?
by promising that all who saw and believed would have eternal life
not by selections some to see and refusing the give many the inability to see
not sure why you think an all loving merciful patient God would even think of doing a thing sis

 

[garee]

Tell you the truth, after getting all that off my chest and after making myself read all that stuff about that Dort bunch and the rest, I just want to stand in my den and pull my hair and scream as loud as I can. WHO BELIEVES THIS BULL............? Much less dedicates their life looking down their nose at people they're sure are pre selected to burn for eternity!

Talk about elitist tripe! What the Hell?
And first and foremost, what an insulting wrapper to put around God. Compared to that profile of the elitists, Satan not only looks like a pawn, that isn't even close to being as pre meditative, but Adam and Eve were set up!

Adam and Eve believed the lie making the word of God without effect .

In effect Satan the Sadist said you will not surely die and your temporal body will not return to the dust from where it came and the temporal spirit subject to the law will not return to that father of all spirits.

There no sufferings after death called purgatory (a unknown amount of sufferings as to the severity or time period .The illusion of the father of lies . God is not a Sadist. He takes no pleasure in the death of a saint

Those who are given a new born again spirit will rise on the last day .The same day the letter of the law death will be cast into the judgment fire. It will not rise and condemn to death through suffering (corruption) a whole creation ever again

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[EleventhHour]

@jackrosie

I am wondering why you have not responded to the proof I provided.


https://christianchat.com/threads/calvinist-kitchen-stirring-the-pot.180696/post-4314907

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, but that isn't biblical brother.

Where does the Bible say all we have to do is accept this precious gift? That's a severely truncated message and isn't found true in light of 2 Timothy 2:15.

Secondly all must come by repentance and faith, not just as they are.

Both repentance and faith are gifts of God, yet man under the former natural state are under wrath, including those elect who were made alive; Ephesians 2:3. Natural man in his fallen state is incapable of pleasing God; Romans 8:5-8 &c.

The "come just as you are" teaching is errant when you examine it in Scripture. It is popular preaching, but isn't biblically based.

Jonathan Merritt is a person of late who calls himself a gospel preacher and he encourages persons to come and join in at the LORD's table, unrepentant and just as they are. The Gospel is contrary to that, it is a call to repent and believe.

This is wrong
even Jesus told those who could not see they did
Not see because they did not believe
you would have him say they did
Not believe because they were unable to see

John 6:36 (NKJV): But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.

see they did see. They just did
Not believe. They chose that path

John 6:40 (NKJV): And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

Again as in his other message he who believes has life he who does not believe shall not see life. Life is based on belief

Or another he who believes is not condemned whoever dies not believe is condemned already

Again belief or lack of belief is the foundation.

By grace through faith. Not by grace through new birth

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you. It is good to see that after acknowledgement of some biblical truths shared you appear to be more calm, at peace, rational, loving, gracious, kind, steadfast.

Do not allow any person to sway you from that stance sister. Remember the hard truth of Romans 16:17, obedience of this keeps you in the refuge of the LORD of which some may desire to lead you away from.

Why don’t you practice this by confessing if your sin if bearing false witness

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I see things are boiling over in the Calvinist kitchen pot

The ingredients do not seem to get along

At all

We can get along. Well most of us. We love each other. Well
Most of us