Suicide

[soggykitten]

I don't think so, not till Pentacost at least. Besides would the HOLY SPIRIT have allowed Peter to curse and deny Jesus the night he was arrested if the H.S. dwelt within him??

I'd forgotten that passage about Peter. Jesus gave his rebuke by telling Satan to get behind him. Thank you for that reminder.
This leads me to a question if you will, and to anyone who may care to share their thoughts. Besides it being an amazing thing to actually be there and walk with the living Christ at the time, which is just my 21st century silly imagination thinking it can even come close to envisioning that, what are you thoughts on this question. How the apostles, walking with Christ, would be susceptible to Satan entering them? I mean, God is right there teaching them his ways and along comes Satan and actually gets inside them and leads them to do the wrong thing?

 

[calibob]

Ok a couple of examples.

This is just bizarre. Seemingly formulated on the false assumptions that the Catholic Church teaches that the Eucharist forgives sin and Judas Iscariot is a Saint.

I was taught, (in the 60's) that salvation is lost if we commit a mortal sin and only a Catholic priest had the authority to forgive but salvation wasn't restored till Communion. But in the case of death before communion a priest could perform extreemuntion (last rites) and save the soul. I will quarrel with anyone here that supports that dogma.

I don't want to divert this to a Catholic vs Protestant thread so let's get back to suicide prevention rather than RCC vs evangelical and or Protestant doctrines.

 

[Benadam]

OK so I left it like a car wreck. My mothers side of the family are all catholic as my first wife's family. Many of my friends and family are still faithfull to the doctrines of works and sacrements but reject getting born again is required for salvation. They've even tried to reconvert me and convince me I need to put faith in works, images of Mary, the cross, sacraments and prayer to saints and Mary instead of only Jesus. I don't hate them. I hate the dogma that brainwashed them.

Many here believe the RCC is the great prostitute from revelations. I won't go that far.

It looks like you were a victim of poor or no catechesis. We don't reject the new birth In Christ.
Jesus said we must be born of water and spirit which is Baptism.

Works are not what saves. Our works are tested and are either wood and hay or precious metals. The former will be burnt away the latter will remain as they are works of merit.
This test only makes sense if it happens after death. This burning away of sin is necessary to enter heaven. After death but before heaven what could this purging of sin be?

 

[EleventhHour]

People who commit suicide are often also punishing others.

@soggykitten sad but true, people who were unless successful or leave suicide notes will often talk about everyone that harmed them.

 

[calibob]

Oh wow really? even though it was forbidden you still did it? you are amazing
I could be wrong about this but I don't think suicide is blaspheming the holy spirit creating a mortal sin at the very least not if it has to do with an ill mind or because life becomes so bad people don't have it in them to go on.
One thing Jesus had more than anything was compassion, he saw the inner wounds and inner bleeding of people and felt compassion for them and helped them whenever he could, if one kills themselves or even tries to because of this I don't think they would go to hell.

Because people often times forget that the inner wounds and inner scars are the ones that cut the deepest and are the most difficult to heal

Uh, what? We were never to take a stand that suicide was or wasn't and unforgiveable sin. Our job was to get to the root and prevent it altogether. We had Charismatic Catholics, Pentecostals, Baptists & Etc., on staff and voulenteers. As long as they were born again they could serve or help.

 

[Magenta]

There is something a person is trying to find even when committing suicide. Happiness.

No, not happiness, but more rather like, an end to pain and suffering.

Some even see that they are the cause of not only their own pain and suffering, but that of others.

 

[calibob]

It looks like you were a victim of poor or no catechesis. We don't reject the new birth In Christ.
Jesus said we must be born of water and spirit which is Baptism.

Works are not what saves. Our works are tested and are either wood and hay or precious metals. The former will be burnt away the latter will remain as they are works of merit.
This test only makes sense if it happens after death. This burning away of sin is necessary to enter heaven. After death but before heaven what could this purging of sin be?

No. I don't believe the RCC or has authority over spiritual matters any more than any other denomination. We don't need a priest to forgive us JUST JESUS!

What about the baptism by fire, the HOLY SPIRIT? And what's that got to do with suicide?

 

[Blain]

Uh, what? We were never to take a stand that suicide was or wasn't and unforgiveable sin. Our job was to get to the root and prevent it altogether. We had Charismatic Catholics, Pentecostals, Baptists & Etc., on staff and voulenteers. As long as they were born again they could serve or help.

Oh I thought you meant you were forbidden to help them for some reason my bad, but even so you are amazing just for doing that. Trust me many people need this and not near as many people are there to help such people work like that is important because every life is precious

 

[calibob]

Thanks. I suppose some could claim that Jesus comitted suicide by default for allowing himself to be executed for our sins rather than calling a legion of angels or striking the Romans and Jewish instigators dead on the spot.

My questions are; what is a mortal sin? Where in the bible can we find such teaching?

 

[Blain]

Thanks. I suppose some could claim that Jesus comitted suicide by default for allowing himself to be executed for our sins rather than calling a legion of angels or striking the Romans and Jewish instigators dead on the spot.

My questions are; what is a mortal sin? Where in the bible can we find such teaching?

You can't because it's not there at least not that I have found

 

[soggykitten]

Uh, what? We were never to take a stand that suicide was or wasn't and unforgiveable sin. Our job was to get to the root and prevent it altogether. We had Charismatic Catholics, Pentecostals, Baptists & Etc., on staff and voulenteers. As long as they were born again they could serve or help.

If it isn't too personal, you said you use to work a suicide prevention line. What caused you to leave?

 

[calibob]

If it isn't too personal, you said you use to work a suicide prevention line. What caused you to leave?

Kids. I needed to make more money and there was a scandal at the church that eventually imploded is all. Later I became a mechanic. My last job before I retired was a substance abuse counselor with an emphasis on co-occurring disorders (i. e. mental illness + addiction)

I'm 66 with medical issues 100% disabled.

 

[calibob]

The church paid $5.50 an hour. Econo lube paid twice as much.

 

[Blade]

We know our bodies get sick .. the mind is no different God knows this.

 

[Blain]

The church paid $5.50 an hour. Econo lube paid twice as much.

Only that much? not even minumum wage? for a ujob as vital as that how can they expect people to afford to do it?

 

[Blain]

We know our bodies get sick .. the mind is no different God knows this.

Very true and sometimes it is allowed for his glory

 

[Benadam]

Agreed however some just want an escape while others see suicide as a way out of a hopeless and or incredibly painful life.

Or, and this one really hurts, the world would be a better place without me making a mess of the lives of those I love most.

 

[tourist]

I think that it partially depends on the motivation. Is their a caveat to; ' I will never leave or forsake you," (unless you commit suicide?) It's not there.

Depression and mental illness is real. Many are sick. I don't think the Lord will turn his back on his sick children, which they are to him.








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Happy to see you back! I know that you have traveled a rough road and I have prayed for you.

 

[Benadam]

I'd forgotten that passage about Peter. Jesus gave his rebuke by telling Satan to get behind him. Thank you for that reminder.
This leads me to a question if you will, and to anyone who may care to share their thoughts. Besides it being an amazing thing to actually be there and walk with the living Christ at the time, which is just my 21st century silly imagination thinking it can even come close to envisioning that, what are you thoughts on this question. How the apostles, walking with Christ, would be susceptible to Satan entering them? I mean, God is right there teaching them his ways and along comes Satan and actually gets inside them and leads them to do the wrong thing?

Whenever a spiritual door is opened Satan swoops through to thwart as much good as possible. Notice when Jesus said that to Peter it was right after the Father revealed Jesus as His Son. The Father shared Himself with Peter and Peter knew Jesus as the Son of the Father. Satan distorted the meaning of the revelation in Peter by tempting him to cling to the experience of Divine Fatherhood. That made Peter think it was not out of line for him to challenge Jesus's directive to go to Jerusalem and die. Satan is permitted to tempt God's Children as an exercise machine to make us strong and see what we are made of.

 

[calibob]

Happy to see you back! I know that you have traveled a rough road and I have prayed for you.

Thank you, I appreciate it.