IF ANY WOULD NOT WORK, NEITHER SHOULD THEY EAT:

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MyrtleTrees

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2014
804
317
63
#1
I would guess this only means those that the church as a whole - provides for. The New Testament church was in the habit of providing for the poor among them. But I think - whenever possible, elderly parents were to be provided for by their own chlldren. And of course, it isn't reasonable to require elderly people to work for a living any more. And widows, who were widows indeed - were also be provided by ones of their family, if possible. But if a widow was beyond the age of marriageability, and had no one to provide for them of their family - they could be provided for by the church, if they had been known to have done much work for others in the past - and not been lazy about helping others.
I also thought of Christians who had mental or emotional problems. They are not mentioned in this subject in the Bible. But I can expect that they were to be cared for by their families too if at all possible. I would guess they'd have to be provided for the church too - if they had no such help. So the rule of "If any would not work, neither should he eat" must not have been a hard, fast, un-bendable rule, I'd guess. But closely adhered to, as much as was possible. I thought of one example of a Christian hymn writer in history, who had emotional problems and so was unable to work, and was provided for by ones of his family or relatives. I'm talking of - William Cowper, who wrote the hymn, "There is a Fountain Filled With Blood."
Below, are verses that emphasize the rule of "If any would not work, neither should he eat:"

2 Thess 3:10-12

10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
KJV
1 Thess 4:11-12

11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
KJV
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#2
I would guess this only means those that the church as a whole - provides for. The New Testament church was in the habit of providing for the poor among them. But I think - whenever possible, elderly parents were to be provided for by their own chlldren. And of course, it isn't reasonable to require elderly people to work for a living any more. And widows, who were widows indeed - were also be provided by ones of their family, if possible. But if a widow was beyond the age of marriageability, and had no one to provide for them of their family - they could be provided for by the church, if they had been known to have done much work for others in the past - and not been lazy about helping others.
I also thought of Christians who had mental or emotional problems. They are not mentioned in this subject in the Bible. But I can expect that they were to be cared for by their families too if at all possible. I would guess they'd have to be provided for the church too - if they had no such help. So the rule of "If any would not work, neither should he eat" must not have been a hard, fast, un-bendable rule, I'd guess. But closely adhered to, as much as was possible. I thought of one example of a Christian hymn writer in history, who had emotional problems and so was unable to work, and was provided for by ones of his family or relatives. I'm talking of - William Cowper, who wrote the hymn, "There is a Fountain Filled With Blood."
Below, are verses that emphasize the rule of "If any would not work, neither should he eat:"

2 Thess 3:10-12

10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
KJV
1 Thess 4:11-12

11 And that ye study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

12 That ye may walk honestly toward them that are without, and that ye may have lack of nothing.
KJV
I believe this verse ""If any would not work, neither should he eat" and similar verses are speaking about laziness and lazy people. In this sense, I think it is an unbendable rule when the verses speak of laziness. However, if people are not working due to other reasons (sickness, etc.), I don't think these verses would apply.

I think if the elderly are healthy and are able to work, they should (I plan to, even if it is part-time in a more relaxing job). There are also verses on saving for a raining day (such as retirement), so everyone should heed this warning/advice. Similarly, in current times, widows are able to work and should work.

I have not looked into it, but I would not be surprised if the Bible does not discuss mental illness too much. There is a wide range of mental illnesses. In some mental illess, such as depression, it is actually more helpful to them if they get out of the house and work. Staying in the house without a job can cause even more depression. The goal with mental illness is to try and get the person to live a full life as much as possible. But, if all else fails, this person should be helped financially.

When the Bible speaks of widows and elderly, I think of poor homeless widows who had no employment options (except prostitution) and elderly who are sick or bed-ridden (not the active elderly). Other people such as family, church, and government should definitely provide in these cases.

I understand jobs are not always plentiful, especially in some countries. Temporary help should be provided until the person finds a job.
 

laughingheart

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2016
1,709
1,669
113
#3
I think you have made a good point about the difference between won't work and can't work. The balance with working is that God set an example of time for resting, time for learning, time for worship, time for prayer and time for fellowship (I am sure there are more). Working also has a large meaning. A woman raising many children may not be producing an income but she is surely working. Our society puts the highest value on paid work but all contributions must be valued.
Thank you for the compassion you show to the mentally ill. As always, God wants us to be charitable to those in need as his church is an example of his love. Part of loving God is caring for his people. In order to do that we must work in whatever way he has designed you to serve.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
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#4
The various answers have been interesting. I would like to propose the following:
  1. The command to work comes from the Garden of Eden. It is a curse on men. Any man who does not work dos two things; (i) He thumbs his nose at God. It was God Who gave this curse. (ii) If he eats, then some other man, or men have done double duty within this curse. That is unrighteous. God is righteous and does not twice curse a man - to work for himself and another while the second dismisses what God has ordained. Let's make a deal. Men work as long as women have birth pangs. Have any women been relieved of this, by the way?
  2. The idea of not eating seems to cure a lot of mental illness. Just shut off any gifts of food to those who claim to be handicapped and see how fast they bend their backs.
Rightly have most posters pointed to so-called mental illness. But they just missed one word. "Claim" to mental illness. From about 1990 to 2000 my wife and I helped a Christian woman who was supposedly a mental case. The details are not important, but she freely admitted to us that when she had an event, she knew exactly what she was doing - like a kid having a tantrum. I know that I am no expert on mental clinics and their inmates, and I know I might sound harsh. But I'm just presenting a case why God seemingly "forgot" to mention those who CLAIM to be handicapped. A man can live for weeks without food. But its very painful. And even more so when he has to face his wife and children over an empty table. God's ways are VERY wise.

Let us be quick to help a man, woman or family who has fallen on hard times. But let us not look for excuses why we should not do what God commanded. Or do we think that the Omniscient One "forgot" something?
 
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,974
113
#5
after a while, we don't have to 'look', it becomes quite obvious why we 'should do' what our Father requires of us...
it's called 'discernment'...
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,927
1,259
113
#6
I think you have made a good point about the difference between won't work and can't work. The balance with working is that God set an example of time for resting, time for learning, time for worship, time for prayer and time for fellowship (I am sure there are more). Working also has a large meaning. A woman raising many children may not be producing an income but she is surely working. Our society puts the highest value on paid work but all contributions must be valued.
Thank you for the compassion you show to the mentally ill. As always, God wants us to be charitable to those in need as his church is an example of his love. Part of loving God is caring for his people. In order to do that we must work in whatever way he has designed you to serve.
That!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
42,590
17,056
113
69
Tennessee
#7
I think you have made a good point about the difference between won't work and can't work. The balance with working is that God set an example of time for resting, time for learning, time for worship, time for prayer and time for fellowship (I am sure there are more). Working also has a large meaning. A woman raising many children may not be producing an income but she is surely working. Our society puts the highest value on paid work but all contributions must be valued.
Thank you for the compassion you show to the mentally ill. As always, God wants us to be charitable to those in need as his church is an example of his love. Part of loving God is caring for his people. In order to do that we must work in whatever way he has designed you to serve.
You wrote a well articulated post on this topic. I believe you have a compassionate empathic heart.
 

mar09

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2014
4,927
1,259
113
#8
The various answers have been interesting. I would like to propose the following:
  1. The command to work comes from the Garden of Eden. It is a curse on men. Any man who does not work dos two things; (i) He thumbs his nose at God. It was God Who gave this curse. (ii) If he eats, then some other man, or men have done double duty within this curse. That is unrighteous. God is righteous and does not twice curse a man - to work for himself and another while the second dismisses what God has ordained. Let's make a deal. Men work as long as women have birth pangs. Have any women been relieved of this, by the way?
  2. The idea of not eating seems to cure a lot of mental illness. Just shut off any gifts of food to those who claim to be handicapped and see how fast they bend their backs.
Rightly have most posters pointed to so-called mental illness. But they just missed one word. "Claim" to mental illness. From about 1990 to 2000 my wife and I helped a Christian woman who was supposedly a mental case. The details are not important, but she freely admitted to us that when she had an event, she knew exactly what she was doing - like a kid having a tantrum. I know that I am no expert on mental clinics and their inmates, and I know I might sound harsh. But I'm just presenting a case why God seemingly "forgot" to mention those who CLAIM to be handicapped. A man can live for weeks without food. But its very painful. And even more so when he has to face his wife and children over an empty table. God's ways are VERY wise.

Let us be quick to help a man, woman or family who has fallen on hard times. But let us not look for excuses why we should not do what God commanded. Or do we think that the Omniscient One "forgot" something?
Let me clarify that God never cursed man or woman. It was the serpent and the ground that was cursed:

Gen. 3. 14a Adonai, God, said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all livestock and wild animals...

Gen. 3. 17b "... the ground is cursed on your account; you will work hard to eat from it as long as you live."

Abt birth pangs, definitely many women have gone thru glorious childbirth w/ less hassle or pain often portrayed in movies we see everyday. This is a long discussion, but just because most in modern cultures give birth with pain, we cannot say that all do or did go thru birth pangs/pains as we've been accustomed to see in movies or read abt everywhere=). Hebrew women gave birth easily too, as well as women from certain other cultures and times.
 
Jun 11, 2020
1,370
424
83
73
#9
Let me clarify that God never cursed man or woman. It was the serpent and the ground that was cursed:

Gen. 3. 14a Adonai, God, said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all livestock and wild animals...

Gen. 3. 17b "... the ground is cursed on your account; you will work hard to eat from it as long as you live."

Abt birth pangs, definitely many women have gone thru glorious childbirth w/ less hassle or pain often portrayed in movies we see everyday. This is a long discussion, but just because most in modern cultures give birth with pain, we cannot say that all do or did go thru birth pangs/pains as we've been accustomed to see in movies or read abt everywhere=). Hebrew women gave birth easily too, as well as women from certain other cultures and times.
Thank you for the reply, and the clarification. I agree. The word "curse" is used for the ground. But consider this. In verse 14 it reads "cursed MORE than all cattle ... ." The grammar implies a curse on all, but that the curse on the serpent is greater.

In regard to man, let us view the verses and draw conclusions. Genesis 3:17-19;

17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."


  1. The man is ground
  2. The man is taken from the ground but he "groans" in his body (2nd Cor.5:4)
  3. The man will return to the ground making him naked (2nd Cor.5:3)
  4. The ground that man is, is from, and will return to, is cursed
  5. The ground that man is, is from and will return to is cursed "for HIS SAKE"
  6. The ground will bring forth inedible plants that injure men and stifle the harvest
  7. There is no other way to produce his food but by his own sweat
  8. Genesis 4:11 states plainly that man is cursed "from the ground"
I think that we have enough evidence that man was cursed, notwithstanding that you are correct that the word "cursed" is only directed at the man after Abel's murder.

But returning to the thread, what is your opinion? Should one man go through all of this to feed another who thus avoids it?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#10
There is provision for providing for widows and orphans.
That directive was for the people in the community together in general